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GN Podcast #453

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Renegade Kid talks 3DS piracy, says it could cause devs to leave

If piracy gets bad on the 3DS, we will have no choice but to stop supporting the platform with new games. Some say that piracy leads to more game sales, claiming that it enables players to try before they buy. Bullshit. The percentage of people who will spend money on a game that they already got for free is surely very small – especially with so many “free” games already in the market. The line between what should/should not be free is getting very blurry.

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48 total comments (View all)
User avatar
30 Dec 2012 21:36

I feel the same way about this as I already said in the previous post. Thing is, I think region locking sucks and that having the system so locked down we can't enjoy user mods and homebrew sucks but people have ruined this for everybody.

Cheaters in running wild in online games, people corrupting others save files, people stealing games from people who worked night and day making them, and people taking down entire networks is why our systems are so locked down. Unfortunately, because of this, people that WILL get all their games legitimately are screwed as many games from other regions that we want and will pay big for won't be brought over because of the low sales they make (for various reasons).
User avatar
30 Dec 2012 21:48

Well the 3ds isn't gonna be supported most likely it is gonna be hacked and why buy another system to play a game when nintendo could had never region locked it in the 1st place LOL
No Avatar
30 Dec 2012 22:21

We knew this day was coming, will it affect the 3DS? of course, is stealing no matter how you look at it. Will Nintendo overcome massive piracy if it starts? They try with the DS and Wii, what make people think they will be able to do something differently when this starts on the 3DS?.

Only thing that saddens me greatly is that I won't be able to enjoy Mario Kart 7 and Kid Icarus online like before, the day I get online on a random day, one guy one-shoot me by hacking the 3DS, is the day I just leave 3DS online gaming alone just like how I did with the DS and Wii.

Thanks for killing something Nintendo improve this generation hackers just to be able to play mediocre games that will eventually come over here, lets steal more games to destroy the online community on the 3DS!.
No Avatar
30 Dec 2012 22:59

The fact that the 3DS was singled out is idiotic. What? No problem with the crazy levels of piracy on smart phones? Those things are pirated far more than any dedicated games system has ever been. They've been wide open for years and I've yet to hear much developer complaint as to how piracy is an issue. Of course they've also devalued games to the point of free to begin with so I suppose piracy is really the least of their issues there.

But the Vita was hugely pirated and developers continued to support it for years with even better support than the Wii received with a far larger market share. How did that happen?

No complaints about the rampant piracy on the PS2 or the XBox, and they were pirated massively. Not a single word on how bad piracy was on the original PS either, and it was bad. My brother bought a PS with 20 pirated games from some guy for like $200. I remember when I bought FFIX and he told me that he had a pirate copy of that game except the opening cinematic didn't play all the way through.

Piracy is nothing new, it's just far more visible what with the internet.

However, I do often wonder why it only seems to be an issue when it happens on a Nintendo platform. When Renegade Kid mentions that they're never making another game for smart phones because of piracy then they they'll be able to talk. Until then, this is all just bull. You can't use piracy as an issue to drop support for one system while supporting other systems that see piracy on a far greater level, and currently in regards to the 3DS... AT ALL.
User avatar
30 Dec 2012 23:27

@void3953

Vita doesn't have Piracy (yet).

PSP supposedly had a higher attach rate in the first few years than DS despite piracy.
Sony also bought a lot of support for the PSP in the later years.

PS2 had a high attach rate regardless of piracy and Sony also paid a high price for 3rd party support.
Therefore piracy didn't really affect the profits of 3rd parties.
Microsoft also bought most of the Xbox support, thus piracy didn't do much damage.

Gamecube didn't get pirated until the final years.
3rd parties claimed piracy killed their software sales on Dreamcast and used that line to jump ship.

3rd parties threatened to kill DS support unless Nintendo took action against Piracy.
3rd parties killed Wii support due to piracy and low sales (that is what they claimed).

So yeah 3DS may share the Dreamcast/Wii fate with 3rd parties if piracy comes.

Also Android makes up for most of the piracy in the smartphone industry.
iOS users are notorious for buying apps, thus generating profits for developers.
No Avatar
31 Dec 2012 00:39

M1 wrote:@void3953

Vita doesn't have Piracy (yet).

PSP supposedly had a higher attach rate in the first few years than DS despite piracy.
Sony also bought a lot of support for the PSP in the later years.

PS2 had a high attach rate regardless of piracy and Sony also paid a high price for 3rd party support.
Therefore piracy didn't really affect the profits of 3rd parties.
Microsoft also bought most of the Xbox support, thus piracy didn't do much damage.

Gamecube didn't get pirated until the final years.
3rd parties claimed piracy killed their software sales on Dreamcast and used that line to jump ship.

3rd parties threatened to kill DS support unless Nintendo took action against Piracy.
3rd parties killed Wii support due to piracy and low sales (that is what they claimed).

So yeah 3DS may share the Dreamcast/Wii fate with 3rd parties if piracy comes.

Also Android makes up for most of the piracy in the smartphone industry.
iOS users are notorious for buying apps, thus generating profits for developers.

Unless developers actually show that they care about stopping piracy then it means nothing. And what is the way that a developer can show that they care about stopping piracy? By coming out against it and then NOT supporting systems that have or allow piracy.

So far developers have been willing to do the easy part, to come out against it publicly, but they refuse to do the hard part, which is actually dropping support for systems where piracy exists.

Right now, the only systems that should be receiving support are the 3DS, Vita and Wii U as none of the above have had any piracy take place on them... yet. But what systems are receiving the most support? The PS3, 360, and smart phones. All of which have shown and are known to be hotbeds of piracy. Sales numbers of games or systems should mean nothing since even one pirated game is too many if you accept developers public statements regarding it.

So far developers have only shown that they not only completely support piracy, but they're actively encouraging it.

Until they're willing to drop support for any and all pirated systems, and not just ones that have the word "Nintendo" on them, the entire argument against piracy is a red herring.
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 01:25

The main sticking point for me is region locking!
I don't understand why its necessary.
I think its stupid that a game could take 6 or more months to come to euro regions or NOT AT ALL. Why is it so bad for me to import the game from the US? The dev/publisher still gets money.
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 02:02

RedFire Mario wrote:
midorigreen wrote:
LOLDSFAN wrote:@8bit101

I agree with what Notch said. You know what, I actually started off in Minecraft with a cracked version. I didn't know anything about it and wanted to try it out. A few days later I went out and bought it.

Mr. Watsham needs to realize that piracy isn't going away and needs to either embrace it and develop around it, or get out of the gaming industry (sorry that was a tough ultimatum lol).


That is what demos are for.


The problem is that most games do not have demos, like the entire DS library, so you need to make a risk by buying it to see if you love the game or not. Notch is fine with people pirating Minecraft so in case someone bought it and end up hating it.

There were DS game demos, I played the Okamiden one. You just had to go into the Nintendo Channel on the Wii and then download it (temporarily) onto your DS.
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 02:14

_DiGiTaL_ wrote:Regionfree gaming is all I want. Besides most devs wont leave because of piracy.... Where will they go? Vita LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The 3DS's support is from Japan. What will happen is companies will try to make as much money as they can while keeping cost low. That means keeping games in Japan.

Region free is a BS excuse. The DS was region free and piracy was rampant on it. People do not want these hacks for that. They never have. The amount of people that honestly care about that (willing to import games) is likely so low you could count them just using both hands. The rest want to pirate games plan and simple.
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 05:29

The cheating which came from the DS being hacked in the Pokémon community is just horrific. So many people just cheat to get the Pokémon that they want. Even if it's not with Action Replay or save editors, they use something called RNG Abuse, which manipulate's the game and console's random number generator.

The battle and trade communities have been severely gimped by these cheats, and it's impossible to moderate and grab them all. I was hoping the 3DS generation would change this, but it seems not
No Avatar
31 Dec 2012 08:56

Serebii wrote:The cheating which came from the DS being hacked in the Pokémon community is just horrific. So many people just cheat to get the Pokémon that they want. Even if it's not with Action Replay or save editors, they use something called RNG Abuse, which manipulate's the game and console's random number generator.

The battle and trade communities have been severely gimped by these cheats, and it's impossible to moderate and grab them all. I was hoping the 3DS generation would change this, but it seems not

I don't understand what you're talking about here. Cheating has nothing to do with piracy. If you're unhappy that someone found a loop hole in a game that let's them do things that you're upset with because you don't feel it's in the spirit of the original intentions of the developer then blame the developer. They left the loop hole in there. If you're upset that people have used that loop hole and that it's "gimped" your online experience then just don't play online. Besides, there's no point in complaining about people using loop holes or bugs to their advantage. That's been going on since the dawn of time. Simply remove yourself from the situation. That's what I did. I don't play online. Ever. Too many people online who derive fun from their games by trying to ruin the fun in them for everyone else.

Either way none of this has anything to do with piracy so...
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 10:07

LegendofSantiago wrote:@_DiGiTaL_ iOS. The hack might make it region free for you...but it will prevent future games that could have been localized from being localized
iOS has had piracy since 1st gen iOS... Them moving to iOS would be a worse idea than going to Vita which has NO Piracy other than PSP.
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 10:18

Effect wrote:
_DiGiTaL_ wrote:Regionfree gaming is all I want. Besides most devs wont leave because of piracy.... Where will they go? Vita LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The 3DS's support is from Japan. What will happen is companies will try to make as much money as they can while keeping cost low. That means keeping games in Japan.

Region free is a BS excuse. The DS was region free and piracy was rampant on it. People do not want these hacks for that. They never have. The amount of people that honestly care about that (willing to import games) is likely so low you could count them just using both hands. The rest want to pirate games plan and simple.



Regionfree is not an excuse it is a region.... Yes i do have pirated software almost everyone does even if they don't know it. Yes i have a flash cart for my DSLite still do i use it anymore no. out of the 20+ games on that cart i purchased 8-10 of them. Piracy has its cons and perks. Especially on console sorry but i don't like paying 60$ for a game and it end up being pure shovel and the only thing i can do is keep it or turn it into gamestop for 1/4th the price. Regionlocking was a bad idea and we all know if it goes regionfree piracy will open.... Too damn bad it should have never been regionlocked :P
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 10:44

And Renegade Kid just went on my list of devs to ignore/never again support. Easy choice really given how overhyped Mutand Mudds is.

I get how piracy can be a threat to them, but they need to make something work pirating before they complain. But what I can't forgiive is threatening to stop supporting the 3DS. Nintendo has been good to RK, far better than I would have been given their resume. And they start threatening to drop support, as if piracy is something we can cobtrol?

Et tu RK, et tu.
No Avatar
31 Dec 2012 14:09

Now I know people arent defending the hacking of a system and the potential theft of games, right...?

Some people.
No Avatar
31 Dec 2012 14:36

there is no excuse for hacking. Simple as that. Dont like region locking? Sucks, just dont buy it. Dont know if youll enjoy a game? Read some reviews, wathc some videos, do some damn research, the internet is a vast sea of information. Dont pirate the game knowing damn well you wont go buy it if you like it anyway. Dont shovel in the pool and ruin everybody elses swim
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 17:16

younghavok wrote:there is no excuse for hacking. Simple as that. Dont like region locking? Sucks, just dont buy it. Dont know if youll enjoy a game? Read some reviews, wathc some videos, do some damn research, the internet is a vast sea of information. Dont pirate the game knowing damn well you wont go buy it if you like it anyway. Dont shovel in the pool and ruin everybody elses swim



Reviews don't do some games any real justice so no reviews may help a little but they wont fully determin if a game is worth paying the full 60$. Even with videos same thing applies it might look great on screen but lacks some serious content. No I am NOT defending piracy but I am not for or against it. Pretty neutral in general if it happens it happens nothing for anyone to cry over especially developers. Piracy has been around for decades and it is not going anywhere. And like he said up there previously the dev should make something worth it before complaining about piracy :)
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 17:47

@_DiGiTaL_
Honestly, I'm convinced that you do support piracy. Try before you buy. That's usually their excuse.

Besides the fact that the DS is region free, you still download games. Out of 20 games you've downloaded, you bought half of them. You're not like theimporter, who actually does buy all the games he downloaded.
User avatar
31 Dec 2012 22:03

I actually laughed at the amount of piraters there were on GoNintendo during the DS years.
User avatar
01 Jan 2013 06:12

void3953 wrote:
Serebii wrote:The cheating which came from the DS being hacked in the Pokémon community is just horrific. So many people just cheat to get the Pokémon that they want. Even if it's not with Action Replay or save editors, they use something called RNG Abuse, which manipulate's the game and console's random number generator.

The battle and trade communities have been severely gimped by these cheats, and it's impossible to moderate and grab them all. I was hoping the 3DS generation would change this, but it seems not

I don't understand what you're talking about here. Cheating has nothing to do with piracy. If you're unhappy that someone found a loop hole in a game that let's them do things that you're upset with because you don't feel it's in the spirit of the original intentions of the developer then blame the developer. They left the loop hole in there. If you're upset that people have used that loop hole and that it's "gimped" your online experience then just don't play online. Besides, there's no point in complaining about people using loop holes or bugs to their advantage. That's been going on since the dawn of time. Simply remove yourself from the situation. That's what I did. I don't play online. Ever. Too many people online who derive fun from their games by trying to ruin the fun in them for everyone else.

Either way none of this has anything to do with piracy so...


Much of the cheating is done because the console is hacked, which is how piracy occurs. This is how it has to do with piracy
User avatar
01 Jan 2013 22:51

@peenbbb2 sorry to burst your bubble but I am a fan of try before you buy that is all to it. When it comes to 3DS I have more purchases now because of try before you buy via Gamefly back when I first signed up at Gamefly around their launch the price was not too bad, In the long run during DS years i dropped Gamefly and just started using my usenet account again it saved me money and I had no limits (que from Gamefly). It was just a matter of personal choice not to support piracy but to support my gaming habits and nothing more. I am not for or against it I just embrace it. Try before you buy is not an excuse it is a personal choice. Just like your personal choice to "ASSUME" my reason is an excuse.... We all have our opinions and I will not argue against yours. We are all pirates saying otherwise and you're clearly in denial :) that or the person saying they are not is just a new user to the internet who hasn't been tainted yet LOL
User avatar
02 Jan 2013 03:11

I gotta say regardless of how you feel about piracy it will not change the fact that if developers leave the platform is dead. Also it is not a matter of where they go, all that matters is they will not be on the 3DS. And that sucks. It still has plenty life in it.
User avatar
05 Jan 2013 02:51

The 3DS has been nowhere near even being hacked forever except a few claims that people managed to hack it which never amounted to anything but rumors and bullcrap. All the flashcards available only work with standard DS games, plus the 3DS firmware is blocking even 95% of those that come out. Hey, if you're against piracy, whatever that's your prerogative, but it really grinds my gears when these big companies act like piracy is holding their game sales back. I don't know why this dude is all foaming at the mouth when it's not even an issue on 3DS yet.
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 18:02

kiwisoup wrote:The 3DS has been nowhere near even being hacked forever except a few claims that people managed to hack it which never amounted to anything but rumors and bullcrap. All the flashcards available only work with standard DS games, plus the 3DS firmware is blocking even 95% of those that come out. Hey, if you're against piracy, whatever that's your prerogative, but it really grinds my gears when these big companies act like piracy is holding their game sales back. I don't know why this dude is all foaming at the mouth when it's not even an issue on 3DS yet.



But sadly 3DS is indeed officially hacked now. We can't deny it and it is more than what DS was hacked to. Depending on what they actually release the 3DS will be as wide open as the PSP is. Full kernel support and all if Nintendo can't patch that the flood gates are officially open.

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