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Multiple devs question Wii U's future, if Nintendo should go third party

A portion of a Games Industry interview with Jason Avent, Georg Backer, Dan Marshall, Ella Romanos and Andrew Oliver...

Q: GI: Let's open by talking about the Wii U launch, certainly the biggest recent event on the calendar. Is it enough to rejuvenate the console scene, acting as it does as a bit of a bridge between this generation and the next? Is Nintendo's policy of marketing it first to long-term, core fans sensible? Is it an attractive enough prospect to Wii owners?

Andrew Oliver: It's really interesting - I'm a massive Nintendo fan, and they've got a big, hardcore fanbase, but I do wonder if it's enough to sell a fairly expensive machine to people. You just see every TV advert, it's tablets and phones, tablets and phones. The general population is just going, 'I can play games on these sexy devices. It's coming round to Christmas where I can get a device and once I've got it, I can get all these games for free or nearly free'. I think that's skewed things so massively. It's a tough market for anyone, so it's going to be difficult for them.

They've gone with the idea that people like tablets, so they've made a tablet controller. Yeah, they do love tablets, but the problem is that they're probably going to buy one.

Ella Romanos: There will be a niche group of gamers who will buy it because it's a Nintendo device, but I wonder if that's going to be enough to justify the cost of doing it. I think things have changed so much since the Wii. If the Wii was coming out today we'd be having the same conversation, because the people who bought the Wii are today spending all of their time on tablets and phones and at the time they weren't.

It all comes down to the fact that all those people who already have a tablet, or a mobile phone - which you can get on contract, which makes them look cheap - whether there's going to be enough people left to make it worth it. I also think the fact that it's a tablet type thing - people who aren't in the games industry or don't know it well are going to be quite confused by that.

I think they'll be thinking 'why don't they use a tablet which already exists on the market? Why that specific one? Why can't I just connect mine to the TV? Why buy one which I then can't use for anything else?' People use tablets for multiple things.

Dan Marshall: I'm not sure about the Wii U because I haven't touched one, but I bought a Wii on launch day and got my £179 worth of joy out of it by playing tennis with my mother. That was enough for me. I think Nintendo's problem is actually one of software rather than hardware. I played Mario Galaxy, and enjoyed it, but played Mario Galaxy 2 for about an hour before I realised I was playing exactly the same game and was bored shitless of it. After a while, the Wii's core buckled under its own success.

It didn't have the hardware for many games like Call of Duty to justify making a port, so it was basically lumbered with Nintendo's software for a large part of its lifespan.

Jason Avent: People who buy Nintendo buy Nintendo products - what you're saying about it is true, though. My wife thinks that the Wii is for Wii Sports, she doesn't think it does anything else.

_____________

Make sure to read the entire article, which discusses the future of the Wii U. Of course, we also see discussion of whether or not Nintendo should go third party. You know, the same discussion we've heard for years and years now.

Interview here

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85 total comments (View all)
User avatar
03 Jan 2013 21:03

Actually EA was speaking about all 3rd parties and why they fail on Nintendo systems.
No Avatar
03 Jan 2013 21:46

Entity wrote:Oh and another thing. It's toy, said one of them. Said the U is like a gameboy because if you drop it it could handle it and not break. And only kids drop things right?


XD so making a durable product is somehow BAD!? And ya "only kids drop things" because there aren't enough stupid people who drop their smartphones in toilets or on the street or just about anywhere else, lol.
User avatar
03 Jan 2013 22:45

So........WHO exactly are these developers (most likely small-time indie devs who already make games for phones and tablets), and why is it, precisely, that any of us are supposed to care what they have to say, much less take them seriously?

By all accounts, the Wii U has had a very successful launch so far, and it only just came out, so they haven't even scratched the surface of scratching the surface of what this console can do, either from Nintendo themselves OR third parties.


And P.S., as if this really needs to be brought up once again (and goes against the very theme of this "article", which is about third party support, NOT Nintendo support), for ALL those complaining that "What does Nintendo even have coming to look forward to?":

New 3D Mario
New 3D Zelda
New project(s) from Retro Studios
New project from Monolith Soft
New project from Monster Games
Next project from Nd Cube
HAL's inevitable next project
Pikmin 3
Game & Wario
Wonderful 101 (published by Nintendo)
Lego City Undercover (published by Nintendo)
Bayonetta 2 (published by Nintendo)
Inevitable next Mario Kart game
New Smash Bros., probably in 2014


And various other projects will most likely be officially announced and unveiled just within the next few months, that we have zero idea about yet. I'd call that plenty to look forward to, personally. Especially considering that I at least, don't have an enormous gaming budget these days. So I'm content right now.
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 02:02

Devil_Rising wrote:
And P.S., as if this really needs to be brought up once again (and goes against the very theme of this "article", which is about third party support, NOT Nintendo support), for ALL those complaining that "What does Nintendo even have coming to look forward to?":

New 3D Mario
New 3D Zelda
New project(s) from Retro Studios
New project from Monolith Soft
New project from Monster Games
Next project from Nd Cube
HAL's inevitable next project
Pikmin 3
Game & Wario
Wonderful 101 (published by Nintendo)
Lego City Undercover (published by Nintendo)
Bayonetta 2 (published by Nintendo)
Inevitable next Mario Kart game
New Smash Bros., probably in 2014


And various other projects will most likely be officially announced and unveiled just within the next few months, that we have zero idea about yet. I'd call that plenty to look forward to, personally. Especially considering that I at least, don't have an enormous gaming budget these days. So I'm content right now.

Oh, but that's all boring ass crap! If it's not the 15th Call of Duty in as many years, then it is not new and fresh, therefore it's all crap. I kid of course, but this does seem to be the logic they are using. Oh, and nevermind the fact that Call of Duty is on the WiiU, because obviously that doesn't count.
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 02:32

Bobbuffalo wrote:THIRD PARTIES WONT SUPPORT NINTENDO NO MATER WHAT THEY DO OR NOT

It has already been established third party support will be better then wii. People like you will only have graphics to justify your super systems which is why you want it to lose third party support.
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04 Jan 2013 02:40

CCFanboy wrote:
Bobbuffalo wrote:THIRD PARTIES WONT SUPPORT NINTENDO NO MATER WHAT THEY DO OR NOT

It has already been established third party support will be better then wii. People like you will only have graphics to justify your super systems which is why you want it to lose third party support.

He's not completely wrong though, and I don't think he meant what you think he meant. There is one thing that they could do to get 3rd party support but it would require them to lose a billion+ dollars a year and go out of business by the next generation: Do business like Sony and MS. Buy developers support. Sell systems at a massive loss. That would get them plenty of support for the Wii U. They just won't be around to make another console.

When Sony and MS can CONSISTENTLY make money on the games industry as Nintendo does, then people can talk. Until then it just sounds like sour grapes. People angry that Nintendo, a small company that only makes games, is able to beat out two of the biggest corporation on the planet.
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 03:09

void3953 wrote:He's not completely wrong though, and I don't think he meant what you think he meant. There is one thing that they could do to get 3rd party support but it would require them to lose a billion+ dollars a year and go out of business by the next generation: Do business like Sony and MS. Buy developers support. Sell systems at a massive loss. That would get them plenty of support for the Wii U. They just won't be around to make another console.

Thats the thing though, they are paying for ports and paying to publish games now. Thats why it won't get as out of hand as it did with wii. They are even publishing the late ports. For the paying it will last about a year max but the cost of payment will depend on the franchise. Bayonetta 2 won't be as expensive as you'd think considering work was already put into it. They will likely still be doing stuff like bayonetta 2 for another few years yet.

I still expect western devs to cop out eventually. I would never expect 100%. But he said "third parties won't support them no matter what". That is unlikely. It isn't just about the initial sales figures. Its about what is going on behind the scenes and right now we don't have enough information or evidence to say it will get as out of hand as wii. I doubt it will. At worst its likely to be similar to gamecube. That had better support then wii, psp, xbox and vita.

It would really all depend on what the developer/publisher is asking to fund the project and get it out there. I expect them to pay for gta v in some way to get it on there since I assume they know they need that game if they are after the 'mature' audience. I doubt it would work but I'm sure companies like capcom and namco would support them in the long haul. Those guys sell well on nintendo anyway. There are just too many factors playing against it getting as out of hand as wii. I bet wii u becomes the haven for jrpgs next gen (for consoles not handhelds).
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04 Jan 2013 03:40

CCFanboy wrote:
void3953 wrote:He's not completely wrong though, and I don't think he meant what you think he meant. There is one thing that they could do to get 3rd party support but it would require them to lose a billion+ dollars a year and go out of business by the next generation: Do business like Sony and MS. Buy developers support. Sell systems at a massive loss. That would get them plenty of support for the Wii U. They just won't be around to make another console.

Thats the thing though, they are paying for ports and paying to publish games now. Thats why it won't get as out of hand as it did with wii. They are even publishing the late ports. For the paying it will last about a year max but the cost of payment will depend on the franchise. Bayonetta 2 won't be as expensive as you'd think considering work was already put into it. They will likely still be doing stuff like bayonetta 2 for another few years yet.

I still expect western devs to cop out eventually. I would never expect 100%. But he said "third parties won't support them no matter what". That is unlikely. It isn't just about the initial sales figures. Its about what is going on behind the scenes and right now we don't have enough information or evidence to say it will get as out of hand as wii. I doubt it will. At worst its likely to be similar to gamecube. That had better support then wii, psp, xbox and vita.

It would really all depend on what the developer/publisher is asking to fund the project and get it out there. I expect them to pay for gta v in some way to get it on there since I assume they know they need that game if they are after the 'mature' audience. I doubt it would work but I'm sure companies like capcom and namco would support them in the long haul. Those guys sell well on nintendo anyway. There are just too many factors playing against it getting as out of hand as wii. I bet wii u becomes the haven for jrpgs next gen (for consoles not handhelds).

I'm pretty sure he meant real support when he mentioned that 3rd parties won't support Nintendo, and he's right. You're going to see very few games on the Wii U that developers are going to be betting big on outside of the odd port that's already been deeply developed for Sony or MS hardware and just also happens to appear on the Wii U. It won't be the focus platform and the developer really won't care how well it does there.

And yeah, Nintendo has been doing more deals recently. I think they started doing them all the way back on the GC, after 3rd parties dumped them for Sony originally. But the issue is, Nintendo does deals that will not only benefit the 3rd party developer but themselves as well. Sony and MS do not. Their deals always benefit the developer, at least apparently, and in the end Sony and MS end up making no money off of them. But they're not interested in money in the first place. They're interested in taking over the living room... STILL.

MS paid $50 million (loan my a$$) for a few pieces of DLC for GTA IV on the 360. They weren't exclusive, but timed exclusive and ended up pretty much tanking on everything. MS didn't make back even a fraction of their investment. And they knew they wouldn't but still did it. If that was made public, just imagine how much money must be changing hands between Sony, MS and 3rd parties that we aren't hearing about.

Nintendo can't do that. They can't pay developers huge sums of money just to get them to support their platforms. And they sure as hell aren't going to do it without an agreement that benefits themselves as well. The fact that Sony and MS will pay developers just to get their games on their systems is ludicrous and shows they have no interest in gaming at all. Why would you pay a company to make a game for your system if that game is just going to end up on a competitors hardware as well? Waste of money when you look at it from a game-centric perspective. But Sony and MS do that routinely. Why? Because it ensures that the prices are too high for a company like Nintendo to buy in. It ensures that large swaths of support will never hit their systems.
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 04:11

Problem with sony is they no longer do that. They wait now. Maybe they did something with the call of duty on vita. Dunno. But in microsoft's case they weren't only paying for the dlc they were paying for exclusive rights. Microsoft can afford to pay up all they want and thats why they do it with dlc. Its cheaper. But there are flaws in that tactic. TBH I think the gta dlc is still one of the worst moves microsoft made. At least call of duty works for them. One thing it did was help sony fall. And hard.

But lets look at vita for example in my new point. Now even the big games haven't picked it up where does it go from here? To me that bioshock will never happen. And that is proof right there.

Wii u missing out on some multiplats this year is nothing to write home about yet. It happens with everything. With wii u I think it will be like gamecube. It will get a healthy bunch of multiplats because some will perceive it as something else to 'milk' on. That is the thing. Not everybody cares about sales figures when they make a game. Call of duty may have sold bad but everybody expected it to and (to go with a joke I read here) it won't stop call of duty 16 coming to it.

I think nintendo is right in attacking japan as their focus. I actually know a game they can publish that wouldn't cost them diddly and I am currently pushing stuff on the outside world because I have contacts. For third party support in general it is too early to say how bad it will get. But I believe their head start will count for something at the end of the day.

For wii u I think it will depend on what games you are into. This is why I laugh at people who say gc had 'terrible' support (quoting someone from gaf). It had enough for me because of my tastes. I would wager naruto gets on wii u. That is a big thing for me. For others, maybe not. But I think there is stuff which the others won't get in the way of.
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04 Jan 2013 04:55

Sony didn't wait. They screwed their own pooch with the PS3 is what happened. They assumed that since they had outsold both Nintendo and MS by something like 3-to-1 the generation before that they were an unstoppable Juggernaut and could do no wrong. Then they announced the $599 PS3 and TOLD gamers that they would gladly get a second job just to afford one. All the while MS continued to ply developers with cash in order to get their games. With the huge missteps that Sony made they raised their own prices when it came to 3rd party support. Before MS had to pay developers the larger sums. This gen, I'm pretty sure that changed and Sony ended up having to pay more for support (general support I mean). Nothing MS did directly hurt Sony though. All of their issues were of their own making.

As for the Vita, did it really matter that nothing sold on the PSP? Most 3rd party games released for the system tanked. There were 2 original GTA games for the system and even that couldn't save it. And yet developers continued to support the system for years no matter how badly their games sold. If Sony wants it to survive it will survive (and quite possibly receive better support than the Wii U if the support comparisons between the PSP and the Wii are any indication). It's pretty much a non-stater though. No one has been able to touch Nintendo in the handheld arena since the original GameBoy and I don't see them starting now, no matter how much 3rd parties may protest.

The Gamecube received TERRIBLE 3rd party support. There is nothing to laugh at about it because it did happen. The big 3rd party games completely skipped the system (GTA, MGS, etc., etc.) and what 3rd party support it did receive was usually phoned in. A number of 3rd party games on the GC looked and played WORSE than they did on the PS2. I read an article about one developer who had 2 people working on a port of their game for the GC compared to an entire dev team working on the PS2 and XBox versions. Strangely, developers weren't afraid of putting as much effort into their XBox ports as their PS2 versions, even though the system barely outsold the GC.

True, there is no real telling how well the Wii U will end up in regards to 3rd party support but there is historical precedence that it won't be good. The simple fact that so many developers are taking a wait and see approach to the Wii U, the successor to last generations highest selling system, shows that. There was no wait and see with the SNES or the N64 or the PS2 or the PS3 (at least not until $599!). But there is wait and see for the Wii U. Why? Developers only wait and see if they feel the system may not sell enough for them. But the Wii has sold around 100 million units, far beyond either Sony or MS and in less time as well. Every generation before the highest selling system was given the benefit of the doubt with regards to being the market leader in the next gen. Not so with the Wii U. Instead it's full steam ahead for MS and Sony's next systems and wait and see in regards to the previous market leader's.

Again, based on historical precedence, that is a very bad sign. Not proof mind you, but knowing the way Sony and MS do business and that Nintendo can't, it's pretty much a given.
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 04:58

NormalGamer wrote:
LegendofSantiago wrote:Doom and gloom articles are pooring in. Just like the gamecube, the DS, the wii, the 3ds, etc


In other words: Dejavu all over again. And the Wii U has been out for a month now, too.


Surprise, surprise... :banghead:

Seriously, am I the only one who wants to smash guys like the ones in the article with a sledgehammer!?!? :shock:

Koopzilla wrote:
Devil_Rising wrote:
And P.S., as if this really needs to be brought up once again (and goes against the very theme of this "article", which is about third party support, NOT Nintendo support), for ALL those complaining that "What does Nintendo even have coming to look forward to?":

New 3D Mario
New 3D Zelda
New project(s) from Retro Studios
New project from Monolith Soft
New project from Monster Games
Next project from Nd Cube
HAL's inevitable next project
Pikmin 3
Game & Wario
Wonderful 101 (published by Nintendo)
Lego City Undercover (published by Nintendo)
Bayonetta 2 (published by Nintendo)
Inevitable next Mario Kart game
New Smash Bros., probably in 2014


And various other projects will most likely be officially announced and unveiled just within the next few months, that we have zero idea about yet. I'd call that plenty to look forward to, personally. Especially considering that I at least, don't have an enormous gaming budget these days. So I'm content right now.

Oh, but that's all boring ass crap! If it's not the 15th Call of Duty in as many years, then it is not new and fresh, therefore it's all crap.


And you sir, have officially won the internet today. That sums up some of the current gaming community in a nutshell.

You win a cookie. 8)
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 05:30

void3953 wrote:Again, based on historical precedence, that is a very bad sign. Not proof mind you, but knowing the way Sony and MS do business and that Nintendo can't, it's pretty much a given.

But thats just the thing though. The people saying "what happens when 360 2 and ps4 come out?" weren't saying that last time were they? Last time they were saying ps3 would come out and destroy everything. They predict their outcomes based on what happens right now and (using history as an example) it has only truly happened twice. Snes dominated after nes and ps2 dominated after ps1. Thats it. Other then that the balance of power has always changed. That is the funny thing about Pachter (and the others claiming it). They think the others will be better but last time they were saying 360 would be forgotten about.

They aren't only assuming people will follow suit again (doing the same thing they did last time) they aren't factoring what can happen this year or what mistakes the others can make. Both have set up for flaws next round. In fact if sony make use of this patent ps4 will be an utter disaster. And it is possible because used game blocking is being pushed more then last time because of development costs.

Gamecube didn't have terrible support. I can list far more third party games I have on gamecube then xbox. Including that metal gear solid you want. The thing about last time is development costs were cheaper and sony dominated. It prevented stuff like final fantasy getting on there. But if you look at xbox and compare it to gamecube you will be surprised at just how much microsoft changed. I have dino crisis 3, dead or alive series, ninja gaiden and jade empire. Lets compare.

Resident evil series, viewtiful joe series, killer 7, ikaruga, tales, baten kaitos, mgs twin snakes, harvest moon, dragonball z budokai, crystal chronicles, billy hatcher, battalion wars, pn.03 and then all the multiplats I had like hitman, timesplitters and soul calibur.

Yeah sucks for third party support alright. Funny thing is people tend to miss the bigger picture at stuff (something you've not ignored). Wii might have been the worst for third party support but psp was definitely second. Right now it looks no different in that area either. To me some companies will always come up with excuses in areas. In wii's case power. In psp's case piracy. You won't believe the amount of games on psp that missed localization due to 'piracy'. I commend you for not being bias :wink:
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04 Jan 2013 07:44

CCFanboy wrote:
void3953 wrote:Again, based on historical precedence, that is a very bad sign. Not proof mind you, but knowing the way Sony and MS do business and that Nintendo can't, it's pretty much a given.

But thats just the thing though. The people saying "what happens when 360 2 and ps4 come out?" weren't saying that last time were they? Last time they were saying ps3 would come out and destroy everything. They predict their outcomes based on what happens right now and (using history as an example) it has only truly happened twice. Snes dominated after nes and ps2 dominated after ps1. Thats it. Other then that the balance of power has always changed. That is the funny thing about Pachter (and the others claiming it). They think the others will be better but last time they were saying 360 would be forgotten about.

True. But, and this is the real issue, people aren't asking if the Wii U will dominate but which system between Sony and MS will, or if they will pretty much tie again. There's no one expecting the Wii U to dominate. Since Sony and MS pretty much released the same system this generation it's understandable that people are questioning which will be the lead platform next. However, no one is questioning that it will be one of them. Everyone expects it to be either Sony or MS, and neither had the highest selling system previously.

They aren't only assuming people will follow suit again (doing the same thing they did last time) they aren't factoring what can happen this year or what mistakes the others can make. Both have set up for flaws next round. In fact if sony make use of this patent ps4 will be an utter disaster. And it is possible because used game blocking is being pushed more then last time because of development costs.

If Sony or MS or both decide to block used sales they'll both be dead in the water. That's really the only way the Wii U had a shot at getting a lot of 3rd party support. Sony and MS have to screw up so massively that not even their deep pockets would be able to buy them out of it. But people are pretty much expecting a repeat of this generation. They're either expecting Sony to be ahead or MS to be ahead or both to be so close that it won't matter. Again, who is expecting the Wii U to be ahead? No one. Most people seem to think the Wii was a fluke and that the Wii U could be Nintendo's last system. In that regard people are following expectations. They're still dumb enough to think that Nintendo is the one with the most likely chances to drop out.

Gamecube didn't have terrible support. I can list far more third party games I have on gamecube then xbox. Including that metal gear solid you want. The thing about last time is development costs were cheaper and sony dominated. It prevented stuff like final fantasy getting on there. But if you look at xbox and compare it to gamecube you will be surprised at just how much microsoft changed. I have dino crisis 3, dead or alive series, ninja gaiden and jade empire. Lets compare.

Resident evil series, viewtiful joe series, killer 7, ikaruga, tales, baten kaitos, mgs twin snakes, harvest moon, dragonball z budokai, crystal chronicles, billy hatcher, battalion wars, pn.03 and then all the multiplats I had like hitman, timesplitters and soul calibur.

It had terrible support. I never even owned a PS2 or an XBox but I know both systems received far better 3rd party support than the GC ever did. Lists do nothing for these discussions so I'm only going to say two things:

GTA was the biggest franchise of the generation. There were 5 GTA games released on the PS2, 5 GTA games released on the XBox, and 0 GTA games released on the GC according to Wikipedia. The following are overall game release numbers from Wikipedia as well:

PS2: 2,016
XBox: 968
GC: 646

The XBox saw 322 more titles published for it than the GC, with a year less time on the market (XBox saw it's successor after only 4 years vs 5 for the GC). Being that Nintendo is one of the most prolific developers in the industry, how is that possible? A lot of 3rd party games simply never made it to the system. And a lot of those that did were bad. So many ports I remember people talking about running and looking terrible even compared to their PS2 counterparts. It's one of the reasons a lot of people are still operating under the mistaken assumtion that the GC was weaker that the PS2.

I'm as big a fan of Nintendo as anyone you could find. I don't buy anything other that Nintendo hardware (only non Nintendo systems I've ever bought were the PS and Dreamcast) but even I know that the GC got the short end of the stick when it came to 3rd party support. That's when I realized that it didn't matter what Nintendo did to try and get 3rd parties on board. Sony and MS can simply buy them off. There's nothing they can do against virtually unlimited resources.
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 10:16

I'm glad someone knows what they are talking about. But the first bit is wrong. This is what I see on gamefaqs and neogaf. They are highlighting Reggie's answer to Geoff's question last year. Reggie said it missed multiplat releases because of the power. Now this is what they are saying. "ok so what happens when the others come out?" Not highlighting that one could potentially be a failure, but both will come out and destroy wii u.

You have considered that only one may be successful because they are so similar. It was a key argument I made as well. They haven't. They have said everybody will forget wii u the second they show up. Ignoring that nintendo's franchises have all too often proven they can carry nintendo over.

The belief is that nintendo will be in exactly the same situation as last time. And to me its unwise. I'm not going to say stupid because I could very well be wrong. Its just unwise. Nintendo are being more careful this time so we'll have to see what happens. One thing the next xbox or playstation can't stop is nintendo publishing games and writing agreements. That will only stop when nintendo does. It is about what is going on in all fields. Personal business relationships can also go a long way as well.

I'm not concerned about third party support yet. And the chances are I'll be happy anyway because I was with gamecube. I think some need to hold patience and see what e3 brings because, even though all the hype is on the others, nintendo's e3 is bound to be just as exciting. Besides, there isn't even any real evidence on the table that ps4 is surfacing this year. People are only assuming that because of xbox rumors. For wii u I see it missing releases of rising, bioshock, castlevania etc as a problem for every console launch. Not a sign of people giving the finger to nintendo. It happened with 360 and ps3 and it I'd be surprised if it didn't happen with the others. The time to start asking questions is when mid - late 2014 comes.

If you actually compare games that came out the first year and not compare it to ps3 and 360 right now, wii u is much better. Having monster hunter, aliens, wonderful 101, bayonetta 2, ninja gaiden (because I am in the uk), lego city undercover this is a good sign. This is actually a lot for a system establishing itself.
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04 Jan 2013 11:07

CCFanboy wrote:I'm glad someone knows what they are talking about. But the first bit is wrong. This is what I see on gamefaqs and neogaf. They are highlighting Reggie's answer to Geoff's question last year. Reggie said it missed multiplat releases because of the power. Now this is what they are saying. "ok so what happens when the others come out?" Not highlighting that one could potentially be a failure, but both will come out and destroy wii u.

3rd parties have been using that excuse for years now. But it doesn't explain the lack of high quality original games for the Wii. Games that were released on systems the generation before and certainly weren't breaking the bank and didn't require multiple platforms in order to make a profit. Just look at the PS2 numbers I posted. Most games that generation ended up being exclusive to the PS2. So one really has to ask why the Wii couldn't garner similar support.

You have considered that only one may be successful because they are so similar. It was a key argument I made as well. They haven't. They have said everybody will forget wii u the second they show up. Ignoring that nintendo's franchises have all too often proven they can carry nintendo over.

The belief is that nintendo will be in exactly the same situation as last time. And to me its unwise. I'm not going to say stupid because I could very well be wrong. Its just unwise. Nintendo are being more careful this time so we'll have to see what happens. One thing the next xbox or playstation can't stop is nintendo publishing games and writing agreements. That will only stop when nintendo does. It is about what is going on in all fields. Personal business relationships can also go a long way as well.

I will always worry about Sony and MS and their ability to throw money around.

I'm not concerned about third party support yet. And the chances are I'll be happy anyway because I was with gamecube. I think some need to hold patience and see what e3 brings because, even though all the hype is on the others, nintendo's e3 is bound to be just as exciting. Besides, there isn't even any real evidence on the table that ps4 is surfacing this year. People are only assuming that because of xbox rumors. For wii u I see it missing releases of rising, bioshock, castlevania etc as a problem for every console launch. Not a sign of people giving the finger to nintendo. It happened with 360 and ps3 and it I'd be surprised if it didn't happen with the others. The time to start asking questions is when mid - late 2014 comes.

If you actually compare games that came out the first year and not compare it to ps3 and 360 right now, wii u is much better. Having monster hunter, aliens, wonderful 101, bayonetta 2, ninja gaiden (because I am in the uk), lego city undercover this is a good sign. This is actually a lot for a system establishing itself.

Comparatively, yes, the Wii U had an INCREDIBLE launch. But almost all were ports and almost all cost next to nothing to make. From a Ubi rep, it was said that none of their ports cost more than a million to make. At that price they wouldn't need to sell many copies at all to break even, let alone see a profit. The problem comes in later and with the current lack of Wii U announcements for games coming out in 2013.

Would I like to see great 3rd party support for the Wii U? Yes. Of course I would! Is it reasonable to expect? When the XBox can barely outsell the GC while loosing more than a billion dollars a year and be considered a success but the GC sells sightly less while making more than a billion dollars a year and is considered a failure, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Apparently when Sony and MS are involved the definitions for success and failure loose all meaning.
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 11:49

void3953 wrote:
1. 3rd parties have been using that excuse for years now. But it doesn't explain the lack of high quality original games for the Wii. Games that were released on systems the generation before and certainly weren't breaking the bank and didn't require multiple platforms in order to make a profit. Just look at the PS2 numbers I posted. Most games that generation ended up being exclusive to the PS2. So one really has to ask why the Wii couldn't garner similar support.

2. Apparently when Sony and MS are involved the definitions for success and failure loose all meaning.

1. I have to admit I'm curious about that myself. I think it was to do with the perception wii gave. Capcom and sega actually took wii seriously and were rewarded for their efforts. Sega had at least one disappointment but capcom said they were happy with their ventures. It proves if they take nintendo seriously they can see sales. If it was to do with people not using it as a game machine like the dudes in this article, they are the ones to blame. I think wii u will be more accepted by people as a game machine. It just needs some time. It has good games on it so that is a good start.

2. High five. I can actually list tonnes of ways the others could screw up. Nintendo have set themselves up now so time will reveal their mistakes. We haven't a clue about the others. I guess the others are immune to commercial failure and wii u will be nintendo's last console. Ignore that it happened with sega because they had a tonne of debt and set themselves up with failure after failure. Nintendo don't get any other chances if wii u fails. lol nintendo aren't even in debt.
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 20:00

Well if Nintendo - who ny the way won the last gen console wars - are in such a tight spot and doomed what about the distand 2nd and 3rd losers MS snd Sony? They must've went under already! At least Nintendo has sold a couple million next gen consoles already vs their zero, and that'll be around 10 mill userbase by the time the competitors artive next christmas.

People eho keep counting Nintendo out and losing every time are f---ing morons and should really learn to STFU by now. Not saying the market isn't tougher now but if any of the manufacturers make it it'll be Nintendo and their innovation and franchises. By the way sorry about the spelling errors, I wrote this on my Iphone, one can only wonder the precision you'd get on these toys without keys (or any real feedback) on games such as Zelda, SMG or Metroid Prime. So, f--k a tablet or a phone, simpletons will be amused by them but gamers demand better. As I see it the Wii U interface is a pretty damn good answer for both markets when they crunch the price a bit and get more casual and HC content on shelves this year.

It likely wont do Wii numbers but then again what will? The Wii U can still be a great success nonetheless, at just 1 months in the market its a bit too soon to preeict a disaster dimwit "experts":D See you next christmas and talk to you then.
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 20:20

WHAT HAS HISTORY TAUGHT PEOPLE?


Gameboy - lol no color screen like Lynx and GameGear what a fail!

N64 - omg games still on cartridges with no FMV this will die in mere months!

GameCube - Nintendo will go bankrupt or 3rd party now for sure even though theyve always been profitable and sit on a cash mountain!

Nintendo DS - lmao stupidest thing ever, this will stand no chance against the zOMG powerful PSP!

Wii - derpa derp derp no HD derpa derp its doomed derpa derp sheep derp

3DS & Wii U - derp derpaderp derp derp Vita derp derp doomed derp derp nintendo goes 3rd party derpaderp weak specs derp derpadek no future derpadooo


...APPARENTLY, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Next time these points are brought up, slap the silly out of the moron.-
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 20:50

plan9 wrote:WHAT HAS HISTORY TAUGHT PEOPLE?
Gameboy - lol no color screen like Lynx and GameGear what a fail!
N64 - omg games still on cartridges with no FMV this will die in mere months!
GameCube - Nintendo will go bankrupt or 3rd party now for sure even though theyve always been profitable and sit on a cash mountain!
Nintendo DS - lmao stupidest thing ever, this will stand no chance against the zOMG powerful PSP!
Wii - derpa derp derp no HD derpa derp its doomed derpa derp sheep derp
3DS & Wii U - derp derpaderp derp derp Vita derp derp doomed derp derp nintendo goes 3rd party derpaderp weak specs derp derpadek no future derpadooo
...APPARENTLY, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Next time these points are brought up, slap the silly out of the moron.-


:roll: <- Not for any of the points you made, but for the "language" used.
I do fear the illiterate will outnumber the literate even in first world countries within 20 years. <- not a knock against you personally, but rather the wider "internet generation" in general. Also, handwriting will become a rare skill.

Back on topic, I don't think people said that about Gameboy, DS, 3DS - comparing them to GameGear/Lynx, PSP, Vita considering the Nintendo product was out first so they had nothing to compare to for the first few months. The only thing people complained about with 3DS was the price.
It'd be like people comparing Wii U to the Xbox720/PS4, which they are not.
User avatar
04 Jan 2013 21:47

OmicronTurtle wrote:
Back on topic, I don't think people said that about Gameboy, DS, 3DS - comparing them to GameGear/Lynx, PSP, Vita considering the Nintendo product was out first so they had nothing to compare to for the first few months. The only thing people complained about with 3DS was the price.
It'd be like people comparing Wii U to the Xbox720/PS4, which they are not.


Yes they did.

Gameboy and Atari lynx launched months apart in 1989.
Game Gear landed in 1990.

Both has better specs and screen and using Google Scholar you can find articles back then about people claiming Gameboy was vastly underpowered and a cheap toy.

As for DS it went like this:

PSP announced at Sony's E3 2003 conference
PSP shown off at CES in January
PSP full specs and final system shown at E3 2004.
DS leaked hours before the official unveil at E3 2004
DS and PSP playable on the show floor
Gamers around the world pronouncing the DS dead on arrival due to bad graphics, lack of multimedia feature and having the stupid dual screens and touch screen.

Nintendo shows redesigned DS in August, followed by the launch details in September.
System launches in November.

Sony announces Japanese launch in November, followed by a December launch.
Sony announces Western launch in January followed by the March U.S. Launch.

From March until September PSP outsells DS 3:1 in the U.S.

Nintendo announces 3DS at E3 2010, launches March 2011 for $250.
Sony announces Vita and all the specs in January 2011.

Gaming sites and the general media start running articles on how NGP (the code name for Vita) will wipe the floor with 3DS.
E3 2011 Nintendo announces a slew of 3DS games coming out by years end, Sony announces Vita will launch at $250 as well.

Everyone says Nintendo is doomed!
A few weeks later Nintendo announces the $80 price drop for August and the Ambassador program.

This announcement shakes everyone's confidence.

3DS then picks up.

November 2011 Sony reveals all the unsavory Vita details.
Vita then just tanks never to recover.


Right now you can easily find numerous articles on this site alone comparing Xbox 720 and PS4 to Wii U.
You can find many users comparing them in many posts on this site.

Also numerous media outlets are already running articles on how Wii U will fail because of those consoles.

I can't understand how you missed all this stuff.
User avatar
05 Jan 2013 05:40

Wii U will be fine. It will have a lot of great games that I will want to play. That is all that I care about.
User avatar
05 Jan 2013 09:11

OmicronTurtle wrote:
:roll: <- Not for any of the points you made, but for the "language" used.
I do fear the illiterate will outnumber the literate even in first world countries within 20 years. <- not a knock against you personally, but rather the wider "internet generation" in general. Also, handwriting will become a rare skill.


Maybe, but frankly after all these years and history proving these dimwits wrong again and again, they deserve all that and more. I'm just pissed reading the same BS every time Nintendo launches a new hardware and while I agree that I could've worded that in a more classy way, I was tired, angry and typing on a phone so it is what it is. The point still stands though, you need to look into the past to know something about the future, but apparently these fools have been in a cryogenic chamber for the past 25 years or so and just woke up. Either that, or they're just plain ignorant idiots.

M1 pretty much answered the rest of your message, so I won't go repeating what he said, but GameBoy and DS we're indeed stated to lose quick and ugly by many and look what happened.
User avatar
05 Jan 2013 13:08

Far more than the general doom and gloom, I'm sick and tired of the "Nintendo should go third party" nonsense. And this is coming from somebody who really does not like Nintendo's recent direction in consoles (Gimmicks, gimmicks everywhere).

Nintendo remains the only company that makes consoles that I know I will have plenty of games to play on. They're the only company that makes a great amount of series I am interested in. I'm just not interested in the violent games that most people play these days. Most of Nintendo's series are free from much violence, and even those that are FPS's like the Metroid Prime series aren't so bad. Nintendo is unique. They are the very last console maker that should ever go third party.
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 05:37

More importantly than that, Nintendo is the sole remaining company that is JUST a video game company, that produces consoles. Gone are the likes of Sega, or Atari, or NEC, or SNK, as console makers. Nintendo is the last bastion of a (very sadly) by-gone era, when the vast majority of video games and game consoles were produced by dedicated video game companies. Not corporate conglomerates who can afford to bleed money from their video game divisions, because they make half the world's electronics, or because they have their Windows product on over half the computers on the planet.

But the thing is, the prognostication of Nintendo's impending demise as a 1st party company, have been going on for years, and have been wrong for years. I clearly remember hearing strong rumors people were circulating years ago that Microsoft was actually looking to buy Nintendo, or at the very least that Nintendo was close to going "third party" like Sega did. The reason Sega failed as a 1st party, is because they had horrible business sense, poor marketing (by the time the Dreamcast was around), and in general had just because lackadaisical when it came to supporting their consoles (see: Saturn, Dreamcast). Nintendo has never had those problems.

The only system that has ever been a failure for Nintendo was the Virtual Boy, which was honestly just a bad idea from the get-go. Other than that? They've been on top and making money in some shape or form since the NES days. Even when the Playstation was taking over the gaming world (largely thanks in part to Sony putting money-hats on third parties to keep games like Tekken, etc. PS exclusives), Nintendo still was earning money from the N64, which still had some of the biggest selling hits of it's generation, and beyond that, the Game Boy brand was still kicking ass. The same remained true when the Gamecube was struggling to compete with both the Xbox and PS2, the GC still made a profit, but moreover, Nintendo was still making plenty of money off of the Game Boy Advance, and then the DS. They have absolutely ruled the handheld gaming market since 1989, and still are to this day. They'll never stop making money from that venue, so long as a video games market continues to exist.

And as for the notion some have put forth that they will eventually be a "handheld only" company, I don't really buy that either. They've yet to have a home game console that hasn't been a success, let alone lost them money. The N64 and GC may not have led the market like the NES and SNES did, but they were still financial successes. The Wii was a runaway success, and there isn't much reason for the Wii U not to eventually be as well. I just honestly don't see Nintendo falling by the wayside on the home console front, and really, the only reason so many people say they should "go third party", is because deep down, a lot of the "hardcore" fanboys who hate on Nintendo products, would secretly love to be able to buy Mario and Zelda, etc. games for their "hardcore" consoles.

But I think it's pretty safe to say, "not gonna happen". Though on one final note, I said this years ago, and I still feel this way......I really think it would benefit both parties, if Nintendo would buy Sega from Sammy, and exclusively own all of their brands and properties. Sega could still operate as a game developer, just 1st party now, like Retro, and with Nintendo's usually stringent quality standards, not only would you see Sega games exclusive on Nintendo systems, but they might actually be live up to their potential, instead of disappointing. It'll probably never happen, but it would be a huge move on Nintendo's part.
User avatar
07 Jan 2013 11:56

People love new gadgets and I don't see this changing anytime soon. This has me thinking they'll also support new game consoles in the future too, although I believe the concept of a game console will continue to evolve to be something more of a cloud-based digital entertainment hub.

As for Nintendo buying Sega, I hope so too but it remains to be seen, there's been rumors but then again they've been going on for years.

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