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Smash Wii U review

Adventure Time rev
 

Nintendo Q3 fiscal results - return to profit, estimates lowered, Wii U and 3DS sales

Figures cover the period from April to December last year

- net income of 14,545 million yen (around $159m
- net sales estimates revised down by 17.3%
- Wii U had sold 3.06 million units worldwide
- 1.32 million in North America, 900,000 in Europe and 830,000 in Japan
- Wii shifted 3.53 million from April to December
- revised Wii U sales to 4 million by end of March
- game sales estimated to reach 16 million (11.69 million have been sold so far)
- Nintendo Land has sold 2.33 million
- 3DS software sales increased by 41% year-on-year
- 3DS hardware sales up by 11%
- cut sales forecasts to 15 million

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24 total comments (View all)
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 13:58

Pretty solid overall. Much better than what people were expecting. I thought 4 million a much more likely number
edit: yeah....were did the "analyst" get the 1.1:1 attach rate for software? The data is closer to 3.8.1
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 14:00

I'm glad they are profitable again. Now let's build that Wii U install base.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 14:11

Another interesting piece of news came out today -- the US had negative economic growth in the fourth quarter of 2012. That means Nintendo launched a console in the worst possible time.

Mike from Morgantown
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 14:28

Anyone else smell a 3DS strategy for Wii U? Catch early adopters, wait a year, drop the price with more games out and roll out a deal for early adopters(unless that is what the 30 cent games are). Wii U is gonna be fine.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 14:38

FadedAreWii wrote:Anyone else smell a 3DS strategy for Wii U? Catch early adopters, wait a year, drop the price with more games out and roll out a deal for early adopters(unless that is what the 30 cent games are). Wii U is gonna be fine.


Don't think they need it. Slowly people are understanding that it's a new console (some people are slow). And this E3, or before, we'll see games from Retro and Nintendo and perhaps Capcom and some other graphic pushers to show it's no just a 360 with a a new controller. And let us not forget the exclusive games coming. I have a hunch that Lego City might be a big hit. It has the potential.

Time will, of course, tell though ;)

Anyway. GEtting money back is good. Now use it wisely, Nintendo! What about more deals with them 3rd parties, eh?
No Avatar
30 Jan 2013 14:43

actually it's quite good , i do feel like they kept their 3ds strategy . It's not that stupid after all , every launch doesn't set up the world on fire , most of the software do not as expected . That's going by actual real numbers , the wii u is just doing as good as many , obviously not the record breaking wii . So going by that point , they sure kept their biggest hitters mariokart and mario tokyo , heck it's even the same -ish team behind those ! Let's be uber optimistic and think that X by monolith soft will be the monster hunter 3ds for the wii u .
As for the price drop , i'm not so sure , i'm happy either way i got nsmbu for free , spend the holidays with friends and family playing nintendoland , nsmbu and trine 2 . Sure it might have ended up costing a bit more , but it was simply worth it . I was not that positive with the 3ds price drop but still very personal circumstances made me realize i would not have enjoyed the 3ds in august the same way i did at launch. So yeah come to think of it , nintendoland , nsmb u and trine 2 were/ are massively good game way better than the 3ds launch and i actually enjoyed pilotwings AND steel diver.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 14:45

Are they counting the Wii U Deluxe bundle as a total of Nintendo Land sales or just Nintendo Land as a standalone title? If they're counting Deluxe bundles then that's not really a fair estimate.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 14:46

Let's see how the ANALysts spin this. I'm pretty sure that's a higher number of Wii U's sold than they were predicting. I hope Wii U sales pick up and destroy their sales estimations!
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 14:56

Dang, it's amazing to see the comments try to spin this as good. These numbers are SHIPPED, not actually sold to customers.
They dropped their projections big-time for BOTH Wii U AND 3DS, which is surprising. Honestly, I have trouble believing they'll make those Wii U projections. They'd need to ship 1 million more consoles in 2 months, with February likely to only sell around 300k worldwide, I would assume.

Hopefully, some of the software coming out in March will push some sales; otherwise, things will definitely not be looking good. March will be interesting to see if titles like Monster Hunter, Rayman, Lego City will push hardware or not.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 15:00

gbpackers31 wrote:Dang, it's amazing to see the comments try to spin this as good. These numbers are SHIPPED, not actually sold to customers.
They dropped their projections big-time for BOTH Wii U AND 3DS, which is surprising. Honestly, I have trouble believing they'll make those Wii U projections. They'd need to ship 1 million more consoles in 2 months, with February likely to only sell around 300k worldwide, I would assume.

Hopefully, some of the software coming out in March will push some sales; otherwise, things will definitely not be looking good. March will be interesting to see if titles like Monster Hunter, Rayman, Lego City will push hardware or not.
Umm... Where does it say shipped? All I saw were sales. Also, how can a return to profit NOT be good news?
No Avatar
30 Jan 2013 15:01

mariomaniac45213 wrote:Are they counting the Wii U Deluxe bundle as a total of Nintendo Land sales or just Nintendo Land as a standalone title? If they're counting Deluxe bundles then that's not really a fair estimate.

They have to be counting the bundled Nintendoland. The game would have to have a nearly 1:1 attach ratio at retail otherwise and from what I remember, NSMBU currently has the highest actual retail attach ratio.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 15:04

It's not great, but it's not bad either, so you can take your spin somewhere else as well. They are doing fine and things are only looking to get better.

And I wouldn't look to X(enoblade2) to be Monster Hunter, but more Phantasy Star if it needs to be compared to something. Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate is looking pretty damn tight, though.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 15:06

joshb1983 wrote:
gbpackers31 wrote:Dang, it's amazing to see the comments try to spin this as good. These numbers are SHIPPED, not actually sold to customers.
They dropped their projections big-time for BOTH Wii U AND 3DS, which is surprising. Honestly, I have trouble believing they'll make those Wii U projections. They'd need to ship 1 million more consoles in 2 months, with February likely to only sell around 300k worldwide, I would assume.

Hopefully, some of the software coming out in March will push some sales; otherwise, things will definitely not be looking good. March will be interesting to see if titles like Monster Hunter, Rayman, Lego City will push hardware or not.
Umm... Where does it say shipped? All I saw were sales. Also, how can a return to profit NOT be good news?


We know Japan's hardware sales, and it's not close to 830k, and we know US sales up to Dec 31. There's NO way Wii U sold 430k in January in the US when it barely did more than that in December. It's shipped.

And the return to profit is mainly because of the weaker yen, not because the Wii U is doing great. Quite the opposite actually.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 15:17

One thing I think people are forgetting when it comes to Wii U games sales so far, is that digital sales of retail games are not always tracked well, or sometimes not at all. So while certain third party titles may look like they've "sold poorly", why is it then that many of those same titles help make up the "Top Wii U Downloads" lists since launch? Sure they could all be selling better, as could the Wii U. But the per usual, the doom 'n gloomers really need to just stop.
No Avatar
30 Jan 2013 15:20

gbpackers31 wrote:We know Japan's hardware sales, and it's not close to 890k, and we know US sales up to Dec 31. There's NO way Wii U sold 430k in January in the US when it barely did more than that in December. It's shipped.

And the return to profit is mainly because of the weaker yen, not because the Wii U is doing great. Quite the opposite actually.

We know that no one outside of Nintendo ever releases sold rather than shipped numbers. They're the only ones. Sony and MS ALWAYS only reveal shipped numbers.

We also know that Sony and MS will never make a cent off of their current systems. They've both lost so much on gaming that it would take a serious miracle for either one to actually return to profitability when it comes to games.

I fail to see why you're complaining about Nintendo in these regards when both Sony and MS are far, far worse off than Nintendo has ever been.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 15:28

void3953 wrote:
gbpackers31 wrote:We know Japan's hardware sales, and it's not close to 890k, and we know US sales up to Dec 31. There's NO way Wii U sold 430k in January in the US when it barely did more than that in December. It's shipped.

And the return to profit is mainly because of the weaker yen, not because the Wii U is doing great. Quite the opposite actually.

We know that no one outside of Nintendo ever releases sold rather than shipped numbers. They're the only ones. Sony and MS ALWAYS only reveal shipped numbers.

We also know that Sony and MS will never make a cent off of their current systems. They've both lost so much on gaming that it would take a serious miracle for either one to actually return to profitability when it comes to games.

I fail to see why you're complaining about Nintendo in these regards when both Sony and MS are far, far worse off than Nintendo has ever been.


I'm not sure what you're talking about? Why are you bringing in Sony and Microsoft in this? And not even right facts either. Microsoft is pulling profits on the 360, as is Sony on the PS3.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 15:34

I know that Wal Mart used to not count in NPD figures. Has that changed? It should have, but if it hasn't, that could account for the difference in sales figures. (In the US that is...)
No Avatar
30 Jan 2013 15:40

gbpackers31 wrote:
joshb1983 wrote:
gbpackers31 wrote:Dang, it's amazing to see the comments try to spin this as good. These numbers are SHIPPED, not actually sold to customers.
They dropped their projections big-time for BOTH Wii U AND 3DS, which is surprising. Honestly, I have trouble believing they'll make those Wii U projections. They'd need to ship 1 million more consoles in 2 months, with February likely to only sell around 300k worldwide, I would assume.

Hopefully, some of the software coming out in March will push some sales; otherwise, things will definitely not be looking good. March will be interesting to see if titles like Monster Hunter, Rayman, Lego City will push hardware or not.
Umm... Where does it say shipped? All I saw were sales. Also, how can a return to profit NOT be good news?


We know Japan's hardware sales, and it's not close to 890k, and we know US sales up to Dec 31. There's NO way Wii U sold 430k in January in the US when it barely did more than that in December. It's shipped.

And the return to profit is mainly because of the weaker yen, not because the Wii U is doing great. Quite the opposite actually.


The weaker yen is contributing to their return to profitability, a stronger yen played a role in their losses last year. Their earnings, as well as those of other Japanese companies, are particularly susceptible to currency swings because they export a lot and earn a lot overseas.

As for the sales vs shipped thing, Ninty says sold, and they don't typically conflate the two when providing investor guidance.
No Avatar
30 Jan 2013 15:42

gbpackers31 wrote:I'm not sure what you're talking about? Why are you bringing in Sony and Microsoft in this? And not even right facts either. Microsoft is pulling profits on the 360, as is Sony on the PS3.

You're attacking Nintendo for the exact same problems that both Sony and MS are up against but somehow, those problems only apply to them, as usual.

And as for Sony and MS, MS is making a profit yes, but they'll need DECADES at this point just to make up what they've already lost on the 360 alone, let alone what they lost on the original XBox. Sony, I'm not even sure if they're turning a profit or not but what they lost on the PS3 is ludicrous.

Nintendo will most likely be able to recoup all their losses on the 3DS and Wii U by 2014. Point being, Nintendo actually makes real money. Sony and MS are operating under such crushing losses that Nintendo would have gone out of business after 1 year if they did business like they do.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 16:45

changer1701 wrote:
gbpackers31 wrote:
We know Japan's hardware sales, and it's not close to 890k, and we know US sales up to Dec 31. There's NO way Wii U sold 430k in January in the US when it barely did more than that in December. It's shipped.

And the return to profit is mainly because of the weaker yen, not because the Wii U is doing great. Quite the opposite actually.


The weaker yen is contributing to their return to profitability, a stronger yen played a role in their losses last year. Their earnings, as well as those of other Japanese companies, are particularly susceptible to currency swings because they export a lot and earn a lot overseas.

As for the sales vs shipped thing, Ninty says sold, and they don't typically conflate the two when providing investor guidance.


Yes, it does swing. But swinging positively for Nintendo doesn't mean everything is fine and dandy. They're posting losses on performance alone.

And I know they seem to differentiate the two, but I remain skeptical this is not shipped. We have the NPD numbers which lined up with Nintendo's PR statement for December. Selling over 400k in January is basically impossible. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if it was under 200k. I can't see that huge of a difference stemming from incomplete sales data. Not to mention Japan's totals don't match the Media Create nor the Famitsu numbers.

void3953 wrote:
You're attacking Nintendo for the exact same problems that both Sony and MS are up against but somehow, those problems only apply to them, as usual.

And as for Sony and MS, MS is making a profit yes, but they'll need DECADES at this point just to make up what they've already lost on the 360 alone, let alone what they lost on the original XBox. Sony, I'm not even sure if they're turning a profit or not but what they lost on the PS3 is ludicrous.

Nintendo will most likely be able to recoup all their losses on the 3DS and Wii U by 2014. Point being, Nintendo actually makes real money. Sony and MS are operating under such crushing losses that Nintendo would have gone out of business after 1 year if they did business like they do.


I think you're confused. I'm not attacking Nintendo. And Microsoft and Sony have indeed recouped their losses. Yes, they lost billions at first, but if you haven't noticed, they've been making a killing the past few years. They've turned a net profit on their hardware.

Of course, Nintendo can make a profit off the Wii U. I'm not doubting that. I'm doubting their current strategies and their ability to create a sizable install base, based off their strategies. These reports do nothing to convince me otherwise.
No Avatar
30 Jan 2013 18:22

gbpackers31 wrote:I think you're confused. I'm not attacking Nintendo. And Microsoft and Sony have indeed recouped their losses. Yes, they lost billions at first, but if you haven't noticed, they've been making a killing the past few years. They've turned a net profit on their hardware.

OH NO THEY HAVE NOT! I have no idea where you get your information from but both Sony and MS are still hugely in the red. MS lost more than 4 billion on the original XBox alone. Then they lost several billion on the 360 as well, not even mentioning the money they lost on the law suit over the RRoD. But then they used accounting tricks to bury the losses. Which is the main reason why the XBox isn't listed on its own any more. They're hiding it in with several other divisions in order to obscure it's real losses. Sony has basically lost so much that everything they made on the PS1 and PS2 went up in smoke.

Are you actually saying that in the last few years that both Sony and MS have been making several billion dollars a year in pure profit on gaming? That's the only way they could have made up those losses. Nintendo doesn't even make money like that and they're the most profitable of them all.

Of course, Nintendo can make a profit off the Wii U. I'm not doubting that. I'm doubting their current strategies and their ability to create a sizable install base, based off their strategies. These reports do nothing to convince me otherwise.

But what other strategies are there out there? The Sony and MS way of loss, loss, loss? If you had a better idea, then that's fine. Share. Otherwise, what are you complaining about? The Sony and MS way would kill them quickly. The way they're doing business now, even if the Wii only sold ~20 million units, they would still be around to release another home console.

And your building opinions based upon the idea that Nintendo is making bad decisions. The only way to really know that would be if MS and Sony's next systems come out and blow past the Wii U in sales from the get go. But how likely is that? Not very. Especially considering how terrible the world economy stands today.
User avatar
30 Jan 2013 20:49

void3953 wrote:
gbpackers31 wrote:I think you're confused. I'm not attacking Nintendo. And Microsoft and Sony have indeed recouped their losses. Yes, they lost billions at first, but if you haven't noticed, they've been making a killing the past few years. They've turned a net profit on their hardware.

OH NO THEY HAVE NOT! I have no idea where you get your information from but both Sony and MS are still hugely in the red. MS lost more than 4 billion on the original XBox alone. Then they lost several billion on the 360 as well, not even mentioning the money they lost on the law suit over the RRoD. But then they used accounting tricks to bury the losses. Which is the main reason why the XBox isn't listed on its own any more. They're hiding it in with several other divisions in order to obscure it's real losses. Sony has basically lost so much that everything they made on the PS1 and PS2 went up in smoke.

Are you actually saying that in the last few years that both Sony and MS have been making several billion dollars a year in pure profit on gaming? That's the only way they could have made up those losses. Nintendo doesn't even make money like that and they're the most profitable of them all.

Of course, Nintendo can make a profit off the Wii U. I'm not doubting that. I'm doubting their current strategies and their ability to create a sizable install base, based off their strategies. These reports do nothing to convince me otherwise.

But what other strategies are there out there? The Sony and MS way of loss, loss, loss? If you had a better idea, then that's fine. Share. Otherwise, what are you complaining about? The Sony and MS way would kill them quickly. The way they're doing business now, even if the Wii only sold ~20 million units, they would still be around to release another home console.

And your building opinions based upon the idea that Nintendo is making bad decisions. The only way to really know that would be if MS and Sony's next systems come out and blow past the Wii U in sales from the get go. But how likely is that? Not very. Especially considering how terrible the world economy stands today.


Okay, I'm actually not sure about the Xbox net-profit, as I was reading revenue when I saw the numbers. But they have been turning a profit for the past 4 years on the 360/Live. I also don't know if these numbers and articles are accounting for software sales or if they're just strictly looking at hardware loss/sales. I honestly cannot comment on Sony, but I highly doubt they're in the red as the PS3 has been profitable for sometime now. Take into account game sales/PSN+/etc, and I doubt the Playstation brand in general across 3 generations is in the negative.

I'm talking about console strategy. Nintendo has commented that they learned from the Wii's mistakes. They said they learned from the 3DS's launch failure. Yet, I see they still haven't. They're making the same mistakes. The console is underpowered, causing 3rd parties to shy away from it. The support from the start has been minimal. There is hardly any marketing and hardly any positive word-of-mouth. What's Nintendo going to do? Repeat the 3DS scenario? Are they going to create a desperation price cut and release a ton of software to bolster sales? They don't have the sort of leverage that they do in the handheld market. Game development is more expensive, takes a lot longer to develop (especially HD development), and the systems and games are priced higher. How the 3DS turned things around is not a sustainable business model, yet I continually see people on here comment that they'll be fine as the 3DS was. Theyr'e two different markets with different forces. It has to compete against Microsoft and Sony's consoles, each with stronger momentum going into next gen. Wii had serious software droughts in its lifetime. By how 3rd parties are reacting to Wii U, I can see the same thing; yet this time, churning out title after title in a timely manner is going to be harder with HD development.

Of course, this all comes early. When actual games release, then we'll talk and see whether or not things will turnaround, and Nintendo will look like geniuses.

EDIT: And what I mean when I say turnaround, I mean actually sell really well. I don't expect Wii U to be dead or anything insane like that. But GC-N64 like sales are definitely possible.

EDIT2: Just read that these figures are up to December only, which would DEFINITELY put the figures as shipped, not sold.
No Avatar
31 Jan 2013 00:33

gbpackers31 wrote:Okay, I'm actually not sure about the Xbox net-profit, as I was reading revenue when I saw the numbers. But they have been turning a profit for the past 4 years on the 360/Live. I also don't know if these numbers and articles are accounting for software sales or if they're just strictly looking at hardware loss/sales. I honestly cannot comment on Sony, but I highly doubt they're in the red as the PS3 has been profitable for sometime now. Take into account game sales/PSN+/etc, and I doubt the Playstation brand in general across 3 generations is in the negative.

MS is so far in the hole when it comes to the XBox brand that it's not even funny. They're never going to recoup their losses on gaming, which is why the XBox brand is shifting from games only to all media. Windows 8 doesn't even have Windows Media Player anymore. They're calling it something like XBox Video or something. It was never Microsoft's intent to make any money on gaming.

Sony may be making money again, I'm not sure on that myself though, but it's going to take them years simply to recoup their original PS1 profits let alone those from the PS2. Yes, they lost that much money on the PS3.

I'm talking about console strategy. Nintendo has commented that they learned from the Wii's mistakes. They said they learned from the 3DS's launch failure. Yet, I see they still haven't. They're making the same mistakes. The console is underpowered, causing 3rd parties to shy away from it. The support from the start has been minimal. There is hardly any marketing and hardly any positive word-of-mouth. What's Nintendo going to do? Repeat the 3DS scenario? Are they going to create a desperation price cut and release a ton of software to bolster sales? They don't have the sort of leverage that they do in the handheld market. Game development is more expensive, takes a lot longer to develop (especially HD development), and the systems and games are priced higher. How the 3DS turned things around is not a sustainable business model, yet I continually see people on here comment that they'll be fine as the 3DS was. Theyr'e two different markets with different forces. It has to compete against Microsoft and Sony's consoles, each with stronger momentum going into next gen. Wii had serious software droughts in its lifetime. By how 3rd parties are reacting to Wii U, I can see the same thing; yet this time, churning out title after title in a timely manner is going to be harder with HD development.

The hardware is not underpowered. Sony and MS jumped the technology shark with the PS3 and the 360. Numerous developers have closed up shop because of them. They've placed the industry in a very dangerous position. If they push power again developers will imbibe without question, as the narrative around gaming has been forcibly shifted from actual games to technology, as if MOAR POWAH will automatically lead to better games.

As for Nintendo pulling another 3DS with the Wii u, why not? It's pretty much the same business model as Sony and MS follow. Lose a fortune on the hardware hoping to make it up later. Yes, it is an unsustainable business model but for some reason it's encouraged. But I don't see Nintendo doing anything like that again. They're not going to leave the Wii U to lying 3rd parties who never had any intention of supporting their hardware in the first place.

And as for 3rd party support on the whole, there's next to nothing they can do about it. Sony and MS pay developers to support their systems. That's why they get so many games. Not because it's a better or more profitable market but because Sony and MS buy them off. Nintendo simply cannot compete in that regard.

Of course, this all comes early. When actual games release, then we'll talk and see whether or not things will turnaround, and Nintendo will look like geniuses.

EDIT: And what I mean when I say turnaround, I mean actually sell really well. I don't expect Wii U to be dead or anything insane like that. But GC-N64 like sales are definitely possible.

EDIT2: Just read that these figures are up to December only, which would DEFINITELY put the figures as shipped, not sold.

Selling well means nothing if you never make any money.

Between their two systems MS has sold around 100 million systems and yet they're never going to see a single penny from gaming. Everything they're currently making is simply repaying the massive losses that they've incurred from those two systems.

In the last two generations Nintendo has sold around 125 million systems and not only did they turn a profit off of every one of those systems sold, they've also sold insane amounts of software themselves.

Which company do you think has the better business plan?

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