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Xeodrifter diary #13

GN Podcast #480

EoD - Smash Wii U!
 

GoNintendo 'End of Day' thought - Games that are tough to get into



So...much...Monster...Hunter. Lube and I can't stop playing! We only get a couple nights a week to really dig into it, so we take all the time we can stand! Until our bodies can't take anymore for the night! I think I'm at the point right now! See you in a few, short hours.

Lube and I have been buddying up with Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate since it launched. He doesn't have a Wii U or 3DS, but he's always welcome at my place. I knew Monster Hunter would be his kind of game, so I convinced him to check it out alongside me. It's always more fun when you have someone else to learn alongside!

Of course, we did things the worst way possible. We tried to jump in without doing single player content. We tried to learn as we went. We tried to figure out things for ourselves. While we did pick up a little bit of info along the way, we mostly had absolutely no idea what we're doing.

Hell, that's what the situation is like right now! I mean, we're leagues beyond the knowledge we didn't have at the start. We now know what's going on on a basic level and how to handle ourselves out on the field. That doesn't mean that we don't have a lot more to learn.

The real problem is, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate does a terrible job at teaching players how to play and what to do. There are steps that you walk through, content you read and explanations you'll happen upon. With all that, the actual ins and outs of gameplay aren't presented in a very easy-to-grasp way. No doubt it's a hardcore game for those that really want to sink their teeth into something. You don't have any other choice!

It lead me to wonder what the most unforgiving, tough game you ever got into was. What game did you end up really enjoying, but only after you took quite some time figuring out how everything worked?

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31 total comments (View all)
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27 Mar 2013 09:15

TheH2s wrote:L.A. Noire for me. I restarted that game three times because I just couldn't get into it. Once I figured out how to do the interrogations it was lights out. I really love that game now, but it was slow going at first.

That's an excellent game!

I really can't think of a game that was tough to get into, but that I ended up enjoying, because if it's frustrating at first then it's likely I will toss it aside. I just don't have the patience or the time to figure things out, which is why I've stayed away from Monster Hunter at this point. Of course, I will refer to online beginner's guides, as I did for FE: Awakening (being new to the series), but that's an exception.
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27 Mar 2013 09:38

Lube and I can't stop playing! We only get a couple nights a week to really dig into it, so we take all the time we can stand! Until our bodies can't take anymore for the night! I think I'm at the point right now! See you in a few, short hours.


Well, now I know why you call him Lube. Is Mombrain aware of all this?...Oh, you're talking about playing Monster Hunter together. My bad. :oops: :mrgreen:
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27 Mar 2013 09:54

Kenichi340 wrote:That's why you should never ignore the #1 golden rule of Monster Hunter: You DO NOT skip over the single player content.

They ease you into the game for the player to understand how the game works and how to play, even if the game leaves you to figure out the rest for yourself.

Hell, in Ultimate they even nerfed the beginning of the game to make it EASIER to understand the game and the controls because of the community complaining about how unforgiving the series is.

This. The single-player portion is a very decent tutorial of sorts. Once you get the basics and start hunting with other people (online or local), you'll start knowing all the advanced things, which are almost endless. It's a very social experience, I actually like it that way, it's part of the charm.
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27 Mar 2013 09:59

In my case it was the first Deus Ex for PC. I just couldn't get it and played it many times until I stopped playing for about a year. Then I decided to give it a try and take my time. The game became one of my best experiences ever
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27 Mar 2013 10:23

SSX Blur on Wii is a similar case. The learning curve for that game is pretty insane, but once you wrap your head around the controls and learn to keep the actions of both hands and their fingers independent of one another, the game is immensely satisfying
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27 Mar 2013 11:09

Light_Wolf wrote:
Kenichi340 wrote:That's why you should never ignore the #1 golden rule of Monster Hunter: You DO NOT skip over the single player content.

They ease you into the game for the player to understand how the game works and how to play, even if the game leaves you to figure out the rest for yourself.

Hell, in Ultimate they even nerfed the beginning of the game to make it EASIER to understand the game and the controls because of the community complaining about how unforgiving the series is.

This. The single-player portion is a very decent tutorial of sorts. Once you get the basics and start hunting with other people (online or local), you'll start knowing all the advanced things, which are almost endless. It's a very social experience, I actually like it that way, it's part of the charm.


This is my first MonHun and I've not tried online yet but by doing Level 1 and 2 quests I already feel like I know a lot of the ins and outs of the game.
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27 Mar 2013 11:11

I didn't have that hard of a time getting into Tri, but I also started with the single player campaign. Not to say it was the easiest game to get into...far from it. It is a very satisfying experience once you do understand the ins and outs, though. Can't wait to dig into 3 Ultimate.

I'm trying to think of a game like that. I'm sure it's happened a few times to me, but for some reason I can't come up with one off the top of my head.

@joeshabadoo
This is a great example. Awesome game, but a high barrier of entry due to controls. Once you have them down, though, it feels so good!
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27 Mar 2013 11:36

Mines would be:

*Fire Emblem. I have played only Shadow Dragon and a little bit of Radiant Dawn, and I still don t figure out strenghts and weaknesses of the characters, plus I'm not so keen on the idea of permadeath. But I'm still looking forward to play Awakening.

*Advance Wars. Same as Fire Emblem, except for permadeath and that it didn't take me 5+ years to figure out strenghts and weaknesses.

*Fighting games that aren't Smash Bros., Tekken or Sonic the Fighters. I'm not really into other fighting games, namely modern Street Fighter, I like to play them, but when I learn to do a simple Hadouken, it becomes a button-mashing spree and/or combo fest.

Regardless, I think I enjoy games more when I don't know what's going on.
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27 Mar 2013 11:40

For me it's Fire Emblem Awaking. I am a veteran FE player so naturally I chose the "Classic" mode and I also selected Hard difficulty.
This game hard for me, 1. leveling up my smaller less experinced units without them dying otherwise starting the mission over, 2. Parleying with the DLC bonus teams only to get slaughtered or 3. The DLC where you recuit a FE character from older game, only to slaughtered there too.

Not to mention, most of the missions in this game, start you off severely handicapped in one fashion or another. ie, splitting your army up on other sides of the map, racing to stop the enemy from killing a third party member, trapped on mountain cliff as enemies swarm from all directions( especially flying units), etc
I would not complain so much, if leveling up my smaller/weaker characters was easier.
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27 Mar 2013 11:44

It was Monster Hunter Tri for me. But after going through the initial learning curve, and eventually spending over 300 hours in it, I am a fan for life.
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Anonymous
27 Mar 2013 11:57

All the basics are in the manual, just press the home button. Everything that's not in the manual can be figured out, and that's part of the fun. It's a game that appeals to smart people. NES games had no tutorials, you either looked at the manual or just played and figured it out. If you don't play the game because you don't already know how to play then stop being a pansy and learn something new.
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27 Mar 2013 12:20

beaus27 wrote:For me it's Fire Emblem Awaking. I am a veteran FE player so naturally I chose the "Classic" mode and I also selected Hard difficulty.
This game hard for me, 1. leveling up my smaller less experinced units without them dying otherwise starting the mission over, 2. Parleying with the DLC bonus teams only to get slaughtered or 3. The DLC where you recuit a FE character from older game, only to slaughtered there too.

Not to mention, most of the missions in this game, start you off severely handicapped in one fashion or another. ie, splitting your army up on other sides of the map, racing to stop the enemy from killing a third party member, trapped on mountain cliff as enemies swarm from all directions( especially flying units), etc
I would not complain so much, if leveling up my smaller/weaker characters was easier.

This account confuses me so much.
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27 Mar 2013 12:31

When I was much younger, I had an experience like this with Wario Land of all things. I just couldn't get past the first couple areas, so I put it down for a while. When I came back to it, something clicked and made it through the rest of the game with relatively few problem.
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27 Mar 2013 12:38

I had a rough time with Star Fox 64. I really wanted to play this game but had a hard time with the flying. I just couldn't get decent scores or keep up with enemies. After trying the game multiple times I let it sit for a while. Luckily this game did have a great tutorial/practice level so I sat down with it and went over every move until I had them down. The tutorial was also great in explaining power ups and how to use them. In the end I ended up beating the game and earning all the medals. It is still one of my favorite games but I did have to really put some time into it.
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27 Mar 2013 12:56

YoshiRider123 wrote:
beaus27 wrote:For me it's Fire Emblem Awaking. I am a veteran FE player so naturally I chose the "Classic" mode and I also selected Hard difficulty.
This game hard for me, 1. leveling up my smaller less experinced units without them dying otherwise starting the mission over, 2. Parleying with the DLC bonus teams only to get slaughtered or 3. The DLC where you recuit a FE character from older game, only to slaughtered there too.

Not to mention, most of the missions in this game, start you off severely handicapped in one fashion or another. ie, splitting your army up on other sides of the map, racing to stop the enemy from killing a third party member, trapped on mountain cliff as enemies swarm from all directions( especially flying units), etc
I would not complain so much, if leveling up my smaller/weaker characters was easier.

This account confuses me so much.

How so? I simply stating how FE:A as been tough for me as FE player. I am aware that I selected Hard mode and "Classic" setting but just about every mission or side-quest as been an uphill battle. Playing FE:A is painfully slow.
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27 Mar 2013 14:22

Most recently the first mass effect. Started as an infiltrator and at low levels it is just brutal. They make your sniper rifle like slip around like a bar of soap until you level up. The world map leads you aimlessly at times unless you spend 20 or so minutes piecing it together, ended up in an optional area in a solar system filled with planets upon planets that I just couldn't clear with the air head AI.

Had a Eureka moment when I regrouped, did alot of reading, tweaked my gear and skill points, scoped out potential planets and found a major plot point. Some of the main quests tell you to go into a system but don't tell you which sub planet so I was subjected to a lot of trial and error.

It is still an uphill battle but when the game is in motion I am having fun. Just trying to persevere until I get to ME2, I sampled 3 and that was fun but I wanted to start from the beginning.
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27 Mar 2013 15:01

The Zelda series was pretty hard to get into for me, actually... I played my first Zelda when I was... 15? 14? I knew a bit about them, but at first I didn't see much of the appeal. But then I tried some games, and now I love the series.
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27 Mar 2013 15:19

I have to echo what others have said about the single player game, especially with Ultimate. It does a really good job of slowly working you into gathering, fighting, crafting, etc. Yes, it can take a good 5-6 hours, but it is well worth it for the new player. MH3U is also good in that it gives you one of every weapon to try out and see what suits your play style, and a full set of armor to start you out (a set that is actually very useful for starting players with its active skills).Another thing I would suggest: the Miiverse community for MH3U. I am quite addicted to THAT as well, just sitting and reading posts, replying to new players about how to do certain things, having conversations about weapon types and monster drops, etc. I would highly suggest browsing the Miiverse community if you have any questions. Veteran hunters are all over the board, and usually respond pretty quickly to any questions new players may have. But certainly a key to the game: play at the very least the 1 and 2 start single player quests! Pay attention to what the villagers say about each step, as they tell you what the controls and commands do. And you will do fine! Welcome to the hunt!
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27 Mar 2013 16:18

Zanreo wrote:The Zelda series was pretty hard to get into for me, actually... I played my first Zelda when I was... 15? 14? I knew a bit about them, but at first I didn't see much of the appeal. But then I tried some games, and now I love the series.

I remember the original LoZ..... what a terribly made PoS that turd was :(. It was so bad I never touched another game until Minish Cap came out and my friend insisted I borrow/play it. Since then the only LoZ game I've played and hated was Link's Awakening, glad the suck age of the original NES title didn't make me miss all the games.
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27 Mar 2013 17:47

Final Fantasy XI (when it first launched) is the toughest game I ever gotten into. It's challenging on so many levels and requires an extreme amount of dedication and time to succeed. To put this into perspective for you, there are some bosses that took on average 12 hours to fight, soloing past lvl 10 was almost entirely impossible with very few class variations as the exceptions, dieing past a specific level (I believe lvl 10) caused you to lose XP and sometimes lvl down which all armor of that lvl would be automatically be unequipped, leveling in 1 level past lvl 30 could take several hours, getting in a group could take several days depending on your class and who all was looking, and finally combat was very challenging and caused many players who are less geared and skilled to bring an entire group to wipe.

Taking all of that into consideration, the game still turned out to be one of the best experiences I've ever had with an incredible story, awesome boss fights, an amazing soundtrack, tons of classes, and one of the most amazing worlds I've ever had the privilege to explore in an online game.

As for Monster Hunter, feel free to hit me up whenever you want RMC, I'll teach you everything :)
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27 Mar 2013 18:21

Monster Hunter, defiantly was one of those hard ones to get into.

The Atelier games (at least the PS3 ones) were... hard to manage time for. I mean you're given this beautiful world to explore in and tons of options, but if you take too much time focusing on these things, and just running around the map exploring, you're smacked in the head with a dead end, or two, or three... before even realizing that you screwed up so bad at the beginning that you can't possibly recover now.
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27 Mar 2013 19:19

Zelda 2 for me. Until a friend showed me the crouch then jump slash move to beat the darknuts, I couldn't get anywhere. Now it is probably my favorite game. I play it all the time.

I was lost in Zelda 1 as well, until another friend showed me how to play it. Once you learn to use the boomerang all the time, and burn every bush and bomb every wall, it starts to come together and is pretty fun as well. then once you beat it you get the second quest which changes everything. I wish nintendo put the same effort into games now.
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28 Mar 2013 03:47

beaus27 wrote:
YoshiRider123 wrote:
beaus27 wrote:For me it's Fire Emblem Awaking. I am a veteran FE player so naturally I chose the "Classic" mode and I also selected Hard difficulty.
This game hard for me, 1. leveling up my smaller less experinced units without them dying otherwise starting the mission over, 2. Parleying with the DLC bonus teams only to get slaughtered or 3. The DLC where you recuit a FE character from older game, only to slaughtered there too.

Not to mention, most of the missions in this game, start you off severely handicapped in one fashion or another. ie, splitting your army up on other sides of the map, racing to stop the enemy from killing a third party member, trapped on mountain cliff as enemies swarm from all directions( especially flying units), etc
I would not complain so much, if leveling up my smaller/weaker characters was easier.

This account confuses me so much.

How so? I simply stating how FE:A as been tough for me as FE player. I am aware that I selected Hard mode and "Classic" setting but just about every mission or side-quest as been an uphill battle. Playing FE:A is painfully slow.


I also selected Hard Mode, "Classic" and had next to no problems with the majority of the game, except for a little at the end. Yes, I also made sure no characters died. It's the Insane difficulty that is just ludicrous. I gave up after completing a few missions with that one.
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28 Mar 2013 05:01

rhythm heaven (ds & wii).

i've already picked the ds release apart several times between the forums and even my review of it here on GN. but after playing the wii version, it too seems to suffer from some major issues in the control department.

i'm willing to admit my own fault as a single digit percentage (<10%), mainly because even when a veteran/master of the game has consistent trouble with them, i know it's not just me.

brilliant games though, conceptually and visually.
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29 Mar 2013 06:32

I remember back when I wrote the review here for GN when Monster Hunter Tri came out, and at first I just couldn't get into it, but after hours and hours and struggling, things finally began to click, and a friend helped explain things to me that the game sadly didn't make clear.

Once all of the pieces lined up I loved it, and I thought it was one of the bets games on the Wii for hardcore gamers.

And now, it's already my most-played Wii U game after only a week since launch, and I will look toward it as a consistent go-to game over the coming months.

I had a similar experience with Demons' Souls, too, and was able to get into Dark Souls fairly easily because of my familiarity with adapting to the original.

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