3DS graphics capabilities

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3DS graphics capabilities

Postby tendoboy1984 » 16 Jun 2010 10:54

I watched the Kid Icarus trailer again, and I saw the screenshots for MGS, Paper Mario, Nintendogs, etc., and I'm really not impressed by the graphics. They barely look better than a PSP. :(

I guess that, aside from the 3D, the 3DS and PSP are on even ground now. They both have analog nubs, so I expect many PSP ports now.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby Darth Vader » 16 Jun 2010 11:26

this is all just speculation, but I think I'll be making a decent enough case to convince y'all.

Find that one MGS3D screenshot of Snake scowling into the camera. Keep in mind that this is simply a pre-launch tech demo. (edit - here it is)

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Now, google image 'Peace Walker' until you come across a very similar looking picture on the PSP (and it's there). While his face looks almost as good on the PSP as it does on the 3DS, everything else in Peace Walker - his clothes, his surroundings, etc. boast low poly counts and muddy textures. This is not the case in the MGS3D tech demo. consider that it took Kojima's team several years with the PSP hardware to get their games looking as good as they do on the PSP in the first place, whereas on the 3DS their tech demo looks better than the game looked on the PS2.

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Now, I wasn't impressed with Kid Icarus at first, but considering there's still a long time between now and launch (and that, yeah dude, it's an incomplete launch title that is still on par with the very best looking PSP games)...

well I just don't see how anyone could walk away from something like the 3DS unimpressed. It's a powerful little handheld, especially considering it manages to put out these visuals despite the fact that it's rendering three different images every single frame across two different screens.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby LuigiGBA » 16 Jun 2010 11:44

I agree with Darth Vader, compare early cube games to Twilight Princess, if this is the early 3DS, soon they'll look even better.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby cortjezter » 16 Jun 2010 14:02

yeah, actually the icarus game seems to be kind of hit or miss for graphics, which i think is mainly a product of development time; some of it looks fantastic, while other parts look pretty rough...such as the models and textures looking decidedly 64- or cube-era quality in places.

i can verify though that some other things i've seen clearly surpass the cube. impressive things can definitely be done with this thing!
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby MAGNUS-8M » 16 Jun 2010 15:15

Well, the other pic wasn't showing up for MGS3D, but that's a great point, actually... took a long time to get MGS to look good on PSP, and it still has some low-poly low-textured stuff, whereas 3DS was more or less the same or better than the PS2 version(I say that only because I never played it, so I can only assume it's at least on par with the PS2, give or take here and there).

Another video someone showed of the tech-demo actually seemed to capture a tiny bit of the 3D-ness somehow, and it did impress me a bit...not too big on MGS, but it sounds like right now it's one of the most convincing non-playable demos on the floor right now.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby Barto » 16 Jun 2010 16:17

RMC and Cort both said in their impressions that some of the stuff they saw was even better than stuff they've seen on the Wii.
People have already said it, but Im just gonna repeat it so it gets ingrained in everyone's heads:
It's already looking just as good as the Wii (better at times) even when its:

still early in development
projecting the image twice for the 3D effect
and it's a HANDHELD

This little guy really seems to have some serious horsepower in him! and we don't even know everything about the system yet.

OH! and i was reading e3.nintendo.com and reading the specs for the 3DS and it said the stylus was 4 inches WHEN FULLY EXTENDED.
Collapsabe stylus anyone?
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby gtt » 16 Jun 2010 17:27

it's looking pretty nice. if the wii is 1.5gcns then the 3ds is probably 1.3gcns.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby Gulshog » 16 Jun 2010 18:47

It has the power of the Wii (if not more), in terms of raw horsepower. It has to, in order to emulate PS2 games like Snake Eater.

Remember, the PSP was unlocked (from 222mhz to 333mhz)by Sony a couple of years ago, and went from PS1+ to near PS2 levels (if not as good as PS2 with GOW:COO). I bet this handheld will have the same thing, or something similar. We'll see both developers figuring out what the little system can do, and Nintendo themselves updating both the development software, and unlocking the hardware to increase power over time.

Now, I don't know about you...but I don't know how in the hell you can complain about the system, which is running PS2 games perfectly, after the 3D hell that was the DS. Seriously? :roll:



These are launch titles, people. And, some are PS2 games. Do the math.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby TYFIGHTER » 16 Jun 2010 19:49

Doesnt it use a lot of its power making the image twice? I think it has to render everything two times, which is extremely impressive. But this is just a guess. Either way, the graphics are still fantastic.
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DS GPU ***REVEALED***

Postby ianwilgaus » 21 Jun 2010 04:41

Here is the company making the new GPU for the 3DS

http://www.dmprof.com/index_en.html

Alot of great info on there.
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Re: DS GPU ***REVEALED***

Postby coffeewithchess » 21 Jun 2010 04:43

ianwilgaus wrote:Here is the company making the new GPU for the 3DS

http://www.dmprof.com/index_en.html

Alot of great info on there.


I almost started a thread on this an hour ago, but I held off!
Here's a video of it!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A-xxUyJvQQ&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
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Re: DS GPU ***REVEALED***

Postby ianwilgaus » 21 Jun 2010 04:46

It's great to see what's actually in there. Of course this is only a tech demo imgine what some of the dev's can do with alot more time and money. 3DS is getting better by the moment.
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Re: DS GPU ***REVEALED***

Postby SEGAsbest » 21 Jun 2010 08:10

So I guess I was right in saying it was around PS2-Gamecube, that GPU can render 15.3 million polygons at 200 Mhz, Gamecube sat around 12 million. Given we will still need to know what clock speed, cache, and memory the chip will have to know for sure how it holds up.

Regardless this chip has been around a while (the demo you guys posted is 3-4 years old), I think I might also be right about the 3DS being under $200! A.K.A. my prediction of $180.

Gulshog wrote:True, but as the NeoGaf forum members who discovered this have said, it has modern shaders that allow it to look much better than one would think a GC game can look. I tried looking for the comparison pic on NeoGaf, but couldn't find it. It showed how the 3DS MGS demo model of Snake looked even better than the recent Peace Walker model. Again, it was the textures that helped it...so...at launch developers are making it look better than recent PSP games.

Pretty amazing. This chip is also light on power consumption, which is another plus.


No question it is better looking than PSP, PSP is around Dreamcast. Do not buy Sony's inflated 33 million polygons figure. It's BS. Also, we still need more info, that 15 mill figure is what the chip was 4 years ago there have undoubtedly been improvements since then.

I have read online of more powerful variations of the chip that are more impressive, regardless, that is irrelevant as we don't know how Nintendo will have the chip configured.
Last edited by SEGAsbest on 21 Jun 2010 16:04, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: DS GPU ***REVEALED***

Postby Gulshog » 21 Jun 2010 08:46

SEGAsbest wrote:So I guess I was right in saying it was around PS2-Gamecube


True, but as the NeoGaf forum members who discovered this have said, it has modern shaders that allow it to look much better than one would think a GC game can look.

Pretty amazing. This chip is also light on power consumption, which is another plus.

Edit:

Note the muddy textures on Snake's shoulders, and the basic look of his clothing overall, on the PSP model. Now look at Snake's shoulders on the 3DS model, with smoother, and more complex textures. And, really, every part of the 3DS model looks much crisper, and smoother (hair, headband, eyepatch).
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby Ash_Pokemaster » 22 Jun 2010 06:21

Can't agree more with Gulshog.
Here is a screen from the PS2 version of MGS3 for reference, although I'm not sure if it's exactly direct feed.
http://i.imgur.com/zuaUB.png

I believe that it would be safe to say that by the looks of it so far, 3DS is near GameCube, graphically-wise. If that Resident Evil: Revelations trailer is not prerendered (which I think it is) then one could even compare it with Wii. But I really doubt those renders were real-time.

Either way, little does it matter. PICA200 seems very strong, and the examples we have so far are more than satisfying! I can hardly wait! :D
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby Ezekiel Rage » 22 Jun 2010 08:46

the resident evil video does say its real time...
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby Ash_Pokemaster » 22 Jun 2010 10:54

Ezekiel Rage wrote:the resident evil video does say its real time...


And it was confirmed by Capcom's PR mail. :shock:
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby Barto » 22 Jun 2010 11:13

Ash_Pokemaster wrote:
Ezekiel Rage wrote:the resident evil video does say its real time...


And it was confirmed by Capcom's PR mail. :shock:
Wow, MT Frameworks on 3DS. Talk about epicness.


yeah, ppl shouldve known it was real time b/c you can't move the camera during pre-rendered video.

A confirmtion was nice tho=]
and wow, those are some pretty visuals. Def as good as wii or better.
You think Mario galaxy is possible on the 3DS?
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby Gulshog » 22 Jun 2010 13:59

Barto wrote:You think Mario galaxy is possible on the 3DS?


Very possible, but I do not know if Nintendo will make another 3D Mario any time soon. My guess is that they are working on Super Mario Bros. 3DS, as a brand new installment in the 2D Mario series.

But, I think Mario Galaxy would be pretty amazing, and look quite nice on the 3DS.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby SEGAsbest » 23 Jun 2010 00:10

Ash_Pokemaster wrote:
Ezekiel Rage wrote:the resident evil video does say its real time...


And it was confirmed by Capcom's PR mail. :shock:
Wow, MT Frameworks on 3DS. Talk about epicness.



It was definitely real-time, there were some low poly counts in that video and the floor texture was terrible. http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=127720#comment-263723 go to 47 for the texture I am talking about. Very much real-time, the good news is most of it looks good.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby gamerCNSK » 23 Jun 2010 23:39

SEGAsbest wrote:
Ash_Pokemaster wrote:
Ezekiel Rage wrote:the resident evil video does say its real time...


And it was confirmed by Capcom's PR mail. :shock:
Wow, MT Frameworks on 3DS. Talk about epicness.



It was definitely real-time, there were some low poly counts in that video and the floor texture was terrible. http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=127720#comment-263723 go to 47 for the texture I am talking about. Very much real-time, the good news is most of it looks good.


Craig Harris from IGN said on their latest podcast that he still doesn't buy that RE demo was real time, unfortunately.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby Sat » 24 Jun 2010 02:07

gamerCNSK wrote:
Craig Harris from IGN said on their latest podcast that he still doesn't buy that RE demo was real time, unfortunately.


It was definitely real-time, I think he doesn't buy that it's in-game graphics. He probably is thinking that it was a scene specially put together for this demo to look as good as possible, and in game, there will be more things in the background (rooms, objects, enemies, etc.) and then the game assets would be much lower poly-count.

So it was definitely real-time, but it may not look that good when the game comes out.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby MAGNUS-8M » 24 Jun 2010 10:34

I get the feeling that it was real-time at ONE time...before they spliced some of it together. I find it difficult to believe the boat scenes and other screen-cuts were running at the same time as that room, but I do believe that each scene on its own was rendered in real time. Honestly, if it wasn't, I think they would have gone for ultra-high-realistic models and textures, prerendered it all into a movie file, and then shrunk that video file down for the 3DS to play on-screen, and then use the larger original video file for their internet trailer.

I thought I'd heard that this demo also had camera-rotating to show that it was in real time, though....maybe we're just getting mixed messages from people who played the MGS demo, who knows.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby moonspark » 25 Jun 2010 13:26

Yeah, don't be dissing Craig. Craig is cool.

I personally didn't buy that RE trailer being in real time either (though maybe they'll prove me wrong). MGS looks stunning though, and I certainly believe what we saw there was in real time.


I was a bit underwhelmed by Kid Icarus' visuals as well (though I still cried actual tears when I first saw it, just like everyone else). Ironically, it seems to be the 3rd parties that really seem to be showing off what the 3DS can do, because I was very impressed with MGS.
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Re: 3DS graphics capabilities

Postby MegaMan64 » 25 Jun 2010 14:45

moonspark wrote:Yeah, don't be dissing Craig. Craig is cool.

I personally didn't buy that RE trailer being in real time either (though maybe they'll prove me wrong). MGS looks stunning though, and I certainly believe what we saw there was in real time.


I was a bit underwhelmed by Kid Icarus' visuals as well (though I still cried actual tears when I first saw it, just like everyone else). Ironically, it seems to be the 3rd parties that really seem to be showing off what the 3DS can do, because I was very impressed with MGS.


It was hard to believe that the trailer was the actual thing at first .The 3RD party's have really outdone themselves with the 3DS,But the 3RD party game im really stoked about is MGS.They should a bring smash bros brawl to the 3DS,BUT they should add MegaMan,Ryu,Shadow,And ZERO!! but it likely wont happen .And i was shocked to see the Visuals for kid icarus also,Heck i was shocked to see Kid Icarus in general!
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