Paper Mario Sticker Star

[KingBroly]

"Japanese Sensibilities"

[MoldyClay]

"Japanese Sensibilities"

If it was directed at me, I wasn't trying to suggest anything bad about Japan. I was taking the initial mention from MegaShock as a superiority thing (since it was in reference to the game feeling like it was made by "western fratboys devs") and that Japanese devs apparently had some refined mentality when it comes to games. So my reply to that (now gone) was referencing the fact Japan is full of games that are way crazier than "lol a realistic (not even) goat chomping enemies".

But if it wasn't directed at me, my reply is "Ohhh, that".

[MegaShock100]

To be fair, the paper art style has become more pronounced in every game in the series. It was only really 'subtle' in the Nintendo 64 game, the second one introduced paper transformations and made the theme part of the world itself, the next went crazy with 2D to 3D, this one's basically just the next 'logical' step. It's not a mistake made purely by this game, it's a change which slowly got more prominent as the series went on.

But you might have a point. It does seem a lot like Intelligent Systems are getting too obsessed with the 'style' and 'mechanics' of their games rather than the content. Heck, you could say they're getting too obsessed with parodying and making fun of themselves, even Thousand Year Door and Super Paper Mario had a bit much of this (remember chapter 2 in Super Paper Mario and the tedious mini games needed for rupees? Chasing around General White in Thousand Year Door? Clicking through someone saying I love you a hundred times in Thousand Year Door's chapter 6?) Hell, even the art style seems to be getting more and more strange and 'abstract' per game.

Still, I'll wait for the game to come out and someone to upload a walkthrough or something before I comment further.

Basically! You're the only dude who gets what I mean. As for the more pronounced art style, as I said:

The previous games OCCASIONALLY did these things, but it was either a) subtle or b) unexpected but presented in such a way that it never ruined immersion.

So ya, you had stuff like Paper Transformations and silly art style gimmicks, but it was all set-up in a way that make sure it never broke player immersion. And in Super Paper's case, the 2D/3D flipping thing was explained in the story (alternate dimensions caused by doomsday prophecies and arranged marriage).

I did dislike some of that stuff in TTYD and Super Paper as well. I remember seeing Hooktail the first time, and I was like "what the hell...?" because he was literally a paper cut-out. But in TTYD's defense, it was all presented like a theatre drama, so it made sense. It was a more retelling of one of Mario & Luigi's adventures. And Super Paper wasn't a theatre drama, but it was all in the story. The flipping mechanic was due to some inter-dimensional, doomsday prophecy chaos. SS could have saved itself if it had just taken place in another world or something, like maybe Mario got sucked into a sticker book (kinda like the Shy Guy toy box in the first game). Just like how in Epic Yarn, Kirby was in a yarn world, not the real Popstar world.

It does seem a lot like Intelligent Systems are getting too obsessed with[...]'mechanics' of their games rather than the content.

It would be more appropriate to use a more descriptive term like "gimmick mechanics". It's not like the stickers in SS are unique or anything. The same effects could have been achieved with badges, partners and items. Stickers is just an art style and they're making mechanics based on that instead of actual good strategy mechanics, hence the term "gimmick mechanics". But yes, they are too obsessed with the style and gimmicks instead of making better content and actually good strategy gameplay.

Yeah, I don't think you know what a parody is. And no, most parodies don't suck, unless you're one of those fans with a mighty stick up their butt who gets pissed that they dare make fun of anything in the series.

I probably no what parody is more than you, which is saying a lot since English isn't my first langage and seems to be yours. Just sayin'! And yeah, parodies mostly suck unless they're really, really well done or just take an instance in the actual writing.

Also, lol at calling me a butthurt fan.

a game literally called Paper Mario and has jokes like "BLEECH! WHERE DID YOU LEARN HOW TO COOK!? TRUCK DRIVING SCHOOL!?!" in the first freaking game should take itself seriously.

Okay, and what's your point? What does that have to do with anything? Oh right it doesn't, you're just a really desperate fanboy. Seriously, you shouldn't be playing these games. You obv don't understand them and they're too good for you. People like you with your unsurprisingly low standards and blind fanaticism (which is funny, cause you're not really fans, only in the superficial sense), are bringing down the series.

Paper Mario wasn't and never will be serious in any sense.

And I'm sure you know all the senses of the word.

Fourth-wall breaking is a fucking staple

O rly? I never played any of these games for some stupid writing gimmick. It occasionally popped-up here and there and it was humorous, but a staple? I don't think you what a staple is either.

the game wouldn't be humorous or fun if it turned out that the game series about a flat Italian plumber and his zany multi-species compatriots stopping giant turtles who uses a stick with a star on it thought it was actually a dramatic epic

But that's exactly what it is! I would highly recommend playing the series since it seems like you really haven't. Super Paper is only $20 now and you can often find buy 1 get 1 deals for all Nintendo Select titles. TTYD might be a bit harder to come by, but the first Paper Mario is available on the VC for a mere $10. I highly recommend these games if you enjoy the Mario universe and it's characters.

Unless of course you HAVE played them. But from the looks of it, you've only played them in the most superficial, glazey-eyed way a rabbid fanatic would (i.e. just beating it so you can say "I beat it!"). In that case, you can read up all about the games in more detail on the Super Mario Wiki. Here, I'll link them since I'm nice:

http://www.mariowiki.com/Paper_Mario#Storyline

http://www.mariowiki.com/Paper_Mario:_T ... _Door#Plot

http://www.mariowiki.com/Super_Paper_Mario#Story

And if that is too much reading for you Homer Simpson-like attention span, than you can just watch it on Youtube (sorry, but I'm not linking that for you) or y'know, actually play the games beyond just "omg gotta beat this so i can be A Fan!!1!". I'm surprise how you even manage to complete the games (assuming you did). I mean, they're not exceptionally taxing or anything, but looking at how much difficulty you have in some basic reading comp, you'd probably starve to the death if there wasn't something readily available in your refrigerator.

Overused image is overused! Btw, you haven't actually refuted any of my concerns. Not only that, but that's the wrong picture to use. I'm not mindlessly complaining like "LOLOL Nintendo is for teh kiddiez and Halo suxxorz" because it's the cool thing to do, which is what that picture was targeting. And please, I've probably played, analyzed and understood these games more than you. I'm not the one who says stuff like "2D Mario is the same game with different levels!". But I AM glad you posted that picture because it only proves my point:

I recently saw the opera Don Giovanni and at some point (like 2/3rds in), one of the characters looks at the screen and breaks the 4th wall, but only for an instant. It didn't ruin immersion because it was presented so well and it was alright because Don Giovanni is a well-written piece. It, like the past Paper Mario titles, doesn't rely on literary gimmicks and lolrandom humor to capture the audiences. It uses great writing with some MOMENTARY silliness inserted at APPROPRIATE, NON-IMMERSION BREAKING instances. When I saw that it didn't pull me right out of the game world like Hooktail almost did and SS most likely will quite often. It was like "haha that was clever" and that's it. Furthermore, Super Paper didn't rely on any of that crap to sell itself. SS, however, has stuff like "Hey guise, look at this: it's called STICKER star so everthing is the stickers! Look at the Toads stick themselves and create a stairscase, isn't that so hilarious LOLOLOOL" and you have people posting images of some stupid goat and saying stuff like "better than partners".

There are concerns people have about this Paper Mario game.
#1 - no Partners. No partners means a lot of clever and funny writing that were in previous Paper Mario games may be either downplayed significantly or not exist at all. This a major reason as to why people enjoy them so much.

#2 - no Partners. Without a partner battle system, the game may lack a lot of strategy and depth, which Super Paper Mario lacked.

For the record, Super Paper is the best Paper Mario game. The first two games were great experiences, but really, they were mediocre game for numerous reason, but one really big one: waaaaaay too easy.

Anyone with any competence at playing games could easily block like 95% of the enemy attacks and rack up some insane damage with the rather simple rhythm-timing combat system. Being too easy is a sin for any game, especially a strategy game. If the game is too easy, there is no need for any strategic thought required, consequently making it a depth-less. M&L series is much better in this regard, because the battles actually get tougher and the combat system requires some actual skill to pull off the more crazy combos. Super Paper does whatever it does, much, MUCH better than the first two Paper Mario games do turn-based strategy. Fans obv say that Super Paper lacks the "charm" and "personality" and other meaningless terms, but given a choice between a good game and a good experience, I will ALWAYS pick the former. That's bs anyways because Super Paper has just as much, arguably more charm than the first two games and it had much better gameplay and more depth than them as well.

And this brings me to SS. SS might end up being an amazing GAME, but a shovel experience. If that's the case, than I can mostly forgive it's thematic screw-ups. But I doubt it since it relies mostly on gimmick mechanics and it's basically a dumbed down version of the first two Paper Marios (which are mediocre to begin with). The experience elements that look so bad are just adding spice to the wound.

And also, bringing in racism to the equation about what a game is will get you a Warning/Banned if you go far enough.

How that is racism? You never mentioned anything in the Bayonetta thread. Furthermore it's true. I'm not saying Japanese sensibilities, as in ALL Japanese developers have this quality, just that many of them do, and I have more than enough evidence to prove it. I would never want a Western dev to touch a Nintendo IP unless it was someone like Retro who are being closely monitored by Nintendo. Not just Nintendo, but I wouldn't want ANY good Japanese IP touched by Western devs because they just wouldn't understand how the game works. Had there ever been an instance where the Western take on an IP was better than the Japanese? Retro's an exception that proves the rule. Likewise, I wouldn't want any great Western IP touched by a Japanese developer. Now obv, there are generlizations and they COULD be done right, but as I said, they're generalizations. Like I wouldn't mind seeing God of War being designed by Platinum. The story might be stupid (which isn't saying much cause GoW has a shovel story and characters anyway), but the gameplay would be infinitely better than what GoW has ever had. And there are plenty of cases where "Japanese sensibility" was a bad thing (Other M, all those generic anime stories in RPGs). All I'm saying is that in general, I wouldn't want most western designers touching a Japanese game. You can see this in comments on message boards as well. Imagine Mario designed by a westerner studio. Instead of solid gameplay mechanics and respect for the themes, they'd probably be like "LOL yeah Mario's all about the LSD acid-trip wierd shovel and that's what the fans want! We're so geniuses!!". Except that's not what the fans want. That might be what the more superficial gamers think and want, but not the REAL FANS. And then we'll end up with some awful fan-parody in the same vein as Contra 4.

"Haha we made a game like Contra! Blowing shovel up is good old 80s arcade-style fun. Remember when we thought that was cool!!"

Well it still is and blowing shovel up was only a superficial element of the overall pleasure I get from playing Contra. Most of that pleasure comes from that fact that's maybe, I dunno, it's A GOOD GAME?

[YoshiRider123]

and you have people posting images of some stupid goat and saying stuff like "better than partners".

For the record, I said that more to incite discussion rather than to express an opinion. I had already predicted someone going out of there way to criticize the game as a reaction to the post, but it's a pleasant surprise to see it done by someone of your...expertise.

I do genuinely like the randomness of the goat but I'm not actually sure whether I like it more than having partners or not.

[KingBroly]

What I mean is I get the sense that a line was probably going to be crossed sooner or later. You guys need to take a step back and re-evaluate.

[MegaShock100]

For the record, I said that more to incite discussion rather than to express an opinion. I had already predicted someone going out of there way to criticize the game as a reaction to the post, but it's a pleasant surprise to see it done by someone of your...expertise.

I do genuinely like the randomness of the goat but I'm not actually sure whether I like it more than having partners or not.

My remark wasn't aimed at you per se. I just used your post as proof that SS is trying to sell itself on lolrandom humor instead keeping it subtle like the past games. Too much focus on "hey look how everything is stickery and so funny!" instead of what made the past games so good.

What I mean is I get the sense that a line was probably going to be crossed sooner or later. You guys need to take a step back and re-evaluate.

Oh okay, no problem then. I know my limits, but in any case, I understand you were doing the job as a moderator so no worries.

[FighterKirby]

[[LONGEST WALL OF TEXT EVER]]

Are you here to make a point or prove your opinion is fact? I don't know how long it took you to write all that, but it honestly looks more like a rant than a defense. Chill out.

I'm buying this game and I plan to enjoy myself. Come back after you've "analyzed" the heck out of it yourself, and THAT'S when you can compare it to the previous games and yell and shout and whatever.

[CrispyGoomba]

Can't wait for reviews to start coming out and getting my hands on it as well. I think then we'll have a better idea of what we are all fussing about.

[MegaShock100]

[[LONGEST WALL OF TEXT EVER]]

Are you here to make a point or prove your opinion is fact?

They're both the same thing so... both I guess! I will play it and I'd absolutely LOVE is the final product made me DEVOUR each and every word I've posted here, so we'll see.

This isn't even close to the longest post I've written. I've written a few things more than twice as long. I think the longest was about a game called Radiant Silvergun (developed by Treasure the geniuses behind great action games like S&P and Alien Soldier amongst others).

Oh btw, for another example of where lolrandom humor can make a game suck, has anyone here followed or played Borderlands? The original wasn't so great anyway (it's in the name: BOREDerlands), and the second was more of the same, but with some parts dumbed dowb. But one of the biggest problems that people have with it (and I've seen this all over the internet) is how much the story relies on memetic humor to sell itself. Like it's apparently really, really bad how much it abuses internet memes, net-speak and other 4chan garbage to pass itself off as "funny".

[MoldyClay]

Overused image is overused! Btw, you haven't actually refuted any of my concerns. Not only that, but that's the wrong picture to use. I'm not mindlessly complaining like "LOLOL Nintendo is for teh kiddiez and Halo suxxorz" because it's the cool thing to do, which is what that picture was targeting. And please, I've probably played, analyzed and understood these games more than you. I'm not the one who says stuff like "2D Mario is the same game with different levels!". But I AM glad you posted that picture because it only proves my point:

I recently saw the opera Don Giovanni and at some point (like 2/3rds in), one of the characters looks at the screen and breaks the 4th wall, but only for an instant. It didn't ruin immersion because it was presented so well and it was alright because Don Giovanni is a well-written piece. It, like the past Paper Mario titles, doesn't rely on literary gimmicks and lolrandom humor to capture the audiences. It uses great writing with some MOMENTARY silliness inserted at APPROPRIATE, NON-IMMERSION BREAKING instances. When I saw that it didn't pull me right out of the game world like Hooktail almost did and SS most likely will quite often. It was like "haha that was clever" and that's it. Furthermore, Super Paper didn't rely on any of that crap to sell itself. SS, however, has stuff like "Hey guise, look at this: it's called STICKER star so everthing is the stickers! Look at the Toads stick themselves and create a stairscase, isn't that so hilarious LOLOLOOL" and you have people posting images of some stupid goat and saying stuff like "better than partners".

Overused or not, it doesn't make it less true. You are complaining about a game you haven't played, on a forum.

For the record, I had a long, written out response for you initially. I erased it because honestly, it all just comes down to you complaining about stuff you know nothing about.

Stop comparing this to stuff it's nothing like. The goat, and these items, are used in battle. The toads sticking is a gameplay element and Paper Mario has done stuff like this before. Show me where you've seen a story moment breaking the fourth wall and being crazy other than LOL STICKERS that doesn't go against stuff like TTYD where it was all "LOL I TURNED INTO A PAPER PLANE, BOAT AND ROLL AROUND".

And what "games' have you played and looked at more than me? We're talking about Paper Mario Sticker Star. Not Paper Mario, TTYD or SPM. You have a superiority complex (LOL, I KNOW MORE ABOUT A GAME SERIES; I KNOW MORE ABOUT IMMERSION) and you're making assumptions based on the smallest bits of evidence and you're acting like breaking the 4th wall DURING GAMEPLAY is suddenly a new concept in Paper Mario and that it is ruining the game and cheapening it. Because it was more subtle before? Sure, but none of this is affecting the story. You're letting random crap in battle and levels ruin the story for you, and if that's not what it is, don't compare this to a play, otherwise it makes even less sense.

And the thing about YoshiRider's comment was never mentioned by anyone but him, and he wasn't being serious. Nobody else was praising the comedy, but that's cool that you think it will help your case if you pretend it's true.

[Blargh55]

Paper mario sticker star is the best 3ds game I have played right next to mk7 and 3d land. I love it and the music is wonderful. What are your guys thoughts on paper mario sticker star? And did you download it off the eshop at midnight or did you wait the next morning for the box?

[TheLastBlade]

1. I think the battle system could've benefitted better if it was like Pokemon (TM/HM like techniques that recharge with the stickers that's stuck to the walls; instead of using it once). Or if it had separate options like Attack, Defend, Stickers, Run, and Items.
2. Balance out the puzzles and money gain, because there isn't much to look forward on.
3. The world map would've benefitted better if it was linear like it was in the Mario games... There's NOTHING to do on 3-1 or 2-1, unless you get certain stickers/objects on any 1 world stages.

It's a slight step from Super Paper Mario, but it can't even beat the first game.

[Monoxzide]

im loving this game so far,im on world 5..and i gotta say.
im not understanding where all these reviewers are claiming to get stuck easy and getting frustrated with boss battles..i havent gotten stuck once and im well over halfway into the game.
the only frustrating point i had was the hyrogylphs to open the boss door in world 2..other then that this game is a breeze.
i think ppl just arent exploring and taking there time ,rushing to get reviews out.
this game rocks and its not difficult at all..challenging yes..but frustrating? no,this games cake..and enjoyable as hell

[Sailing_Day]

I'm enjoying this game a whole lot, and I don't understand some of the complaints, particularly from Gamexplain. The game isn't too difficult at all, you just have to know how to read. Just because there is no exp it doesn't mean there is no character progression as well; in fact, removing exp removes grinding from the game entirely, and kind of reminds me of how Zelda does it, by giving you HP upgrades after bosses and hidden in the world. You can sort stickers so space management isn't even a remote problem. The battle system is also extremely strategic and satisfying.

Sticker Star is so far the best 3DS game I've played all year, and I'm glad they decided not to completely revisit the conventions of the first two games just to appease fans. What they have made here is a game that is charming, original and challenging.

[Broken_Cartridge]

Oh, hey guys. How's it goin? Just dropped in to say ho-hoow...how much fun..-

[[LONGEST WALL OF TEXT EVER]]

Are you here to make a point or prove your opinion is fact?

They're both the same thing so... both I guess!

I'm sorry, but until you learn that your own personal opinion, regardless how strongly you feel for it, is not equivalent to fact, you shouldn't debate video games. Your opinion is just that, YOUR opinion, and opinions are subjective.

(I was going to type a whole lot more then this because those words really struck a cord with me, but I decided I was going too far....so I'll just leave it at what I wrote above)
------------------

Anyways....having a lot of fun with Paper Mario so far. I'm at the end of World 3, and so far I have to say that I like World 3 the most.

[TheLastBlade]

I don't understand why people is using this whole hand holing excuse. Why is it considered a good thing when 3-1 and 2-1 literally has nothing to do until you do everything in order. Plus, in boss battles, you have to use a certain sticker to make the battles easier. What kind of freedom and skill involves the player to play a specific way?

[Broken_Cartridge]

I don't understand why people is using this whole hand holing excuse. Why is it considered a good thing when 3-1 and 2-1 literally has nothing to do until you do everything in order. Plus, in boss battles, you have to use a certain sticker to make the battles easier. What kind of freedom and skill involves the player to play a specific way?

It's completely possible to beat the bosses without using the appropriate item. You will need "thing" stickers to do that for any boss after 1. My cousin beat world 1 and 3 boss without using any weaknesses on them. He also beat World 3 before he beat World 2. Is the game forcing you to play it in their order? Kinda. Why am I referencing my cousin? Because I'm enjoying playing it in order so I haven't done anything other then that (hence no references other then him).

I do understand where you're coming from though.

[Sailing_Day]

I don't understand why people is using this whole hand holing excuse. Why is it considered a good thing when 3-1 and 2-1 literally has nothing to do until you do everything in order. Plus, in boss battles, you have to use a certain sticker to make the battles easier. What kind of freedom and skill involves the player to play a specific way?

It's not like having the option of playing the game out of order affects you if you want to play the game in order. The game obviously has a specific world order it suggests to you, but if you want to play World 3 before World 2 I don't see how that makes the game any worse. Forcing you through World 1 first isn't that unreasonable, considering the first couple of levels are basically tutorials.

As for the lack of hand holding, although Sticker Star is fairly linear up to where I am (World 3), it is great that the game lets you figure things out for yourself without the game constantly pointing you in the right direction, which is rare for most games in recent memory. In this regard Sticker Star is a huge breath of fresh air.

[TheLastBlade]

I don't understand why people is using this whole hand holing excuse. Why is it considered a good thing when 3-1 and 2-1 literally has nothing to do until you do everything in order. Plus, in boss battles, you have to use a certain sticker to make the battles easier. What kind of freedom and skill involves the player to play a specific way?

It's not like having the option of playing the game out of order affects you if you want to play the game in order. The game obviously has a specific world order it suggests to you, but if you want to play World 3 before World 2 I don't see how that makes the game any worse. Forcing you through World 1 first isn't that unreasonable, considering the first couple of levels are basically tutorials.

As for the lack of hand holding, although Sticker Star is fairly linear up to where I am (World 3), it is great that the game lets you figure things out for yourself without the game constantly pointing you in the right direction, which is rare for most games in recent memory. In this regard Sticker Star is a huge breath of fresh air.

Sticker star's design is too complex to be rewarding. The lack of hand holding is cool, but the world and the battle system can only lead to a lot frustrations.

[Broken_Cartridge]

Sticker star's design is too complex to be rewarding. The lack of hand holding is cool, but the world and the battle system can only lead to a lot frustrations.

After you beat World 1 you can do either world 2 and 3 in any order. Also the further you get, the easier it is to have stickers(more space for stickers, and lots of opportunities to get more), and the game isn't really designed for you to battle every single enemy (but even if you do, after world 3 you start getting better rewards for battling).

If anything the further you progress the better those things you mention become.

[Sailing_Day]

Sticker star's design is too complex to be rewarding. The lack of hand holding is cool, but the world and the battle system can only lead to a lot frustrations.

Sticker Star isn't complex at all... I haven't felt frustrated once in this game. The world is fantastic and rewards you for exploring and being observant. The battle system is great too, and I don't see how it could be frustrating at all. You don't need to have any options other than to use stickers and run, because if you're in a situation where you're running out of stickers on a normal enemy, you're not playing the game right. Sticker management is fun and I loved figuring out bosses' weaknesses. Really, I don't see how anything about this game could be frustrating. It can be hard, but pleasantly so.

[TheLastBlade]

I'm gonna go a bit further in the game... When I care. I'm gonna let my bro finish the game first (he's a huge fan). So far, he's calling every single one of you guys liers (except getting a billion coins).

[Broken_Cartridge]

I'm gonna go a bit further in the game... When I care. I'm gonna let my bro finish the game first (he's a huge fan). So far, he's calling every single one of you guys liers (except getting a billion coins).

Actually, I just realized, I wasn't completely accurate with "after world 1 you can do 2 and 3 in any order". I completely forgot that there is an item that you need in World 2 that will allow you to progress in World 3. This item is very early in World 2, so you can stop playing in World 2 and do everything in World 3 at that point.

Apologize for the inaccuracy.

[MermaidKelly]

I have a question about filling the museum with stickers. How does that work with stickers you only find once, or stickers you need to progress in the game (like the fan). For example, if you use the fan in the game, will you ever find another one for the museum?

[Broken_Cartridge]

I have a question about filling the museum with stickers. How does that work with stickers you only find once, or stickers you need to progress in the game (like the fan). For example, if you use the fan in the game, will you ever find another one for the museum?

After you collect a real "thing" item, convert it to a sticker, and use it you can go back to where you originally found the "thing" and collect it again. If you don't remember where you found it you can always buy it (to the left of the thing sling)

As far as other stickers you only get once? I haven't found anything like that, so I dunno.