Wii U - The "everything" Info Thread

Everything about the Wii and its games...

Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby KingBroly » 22 Nov 2012 07:31

My game opinions:

Nintendo Land - This game is genuinely excellent. If you hate this game, you hate everything that is good and pure in this world. The music...my goodness the music. Almost every game is good to great, with a couple being excellent. The lone exception being Takamaru's Ninja Castle.

New Super Mario Bros. U - Having motored through this game (not all the Star Coins, no side paths) in a few minutes over 4 hours, I'm sort of disappointed after the fact. The music is criminally copy/pasted for the most part as usual. Nintendo should be slammed for the music of NSMB.

Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge - This game's problem is simple: It's bad hard. There's not really much in the way of learning going on. You'll be punished and punished and punished regardless of what you do. While the core framework is still there, almost everything's been tweaked to make it harder, almost to the point of unbearable. Is it better than Vanilla? Well I haven't killed a dude begging for his life yet, I have more than 1 weapon and the story is slightly less atrocious. It's not a bad game anymore, but I have a hard time calling it good right now.

Scribblenauts Unlimited - I haven't played much of it to give a solid opinion on it, but it looks better than the DS versions, that's for sure. Plus it had a superb opening sequence voiced over by Jennifer Hale.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby Koopzilla » 22 Nov 2012 10:13

@KingBroly Is the music from Takamaru's secret Castle the same as the song from Super Smash Bros. Brawl (called Douchuumen- Nazo no Murasamejo)? I love that song. Somehow the music isn't even something I have thought about on that game, even though it is bound to be great with all the franchises with great music.

As much as I love NSMB, I can agree on the music, why the hell do they keep reusing it? If they aren't going to bother making new music, they have tons of excellent music from the Mario series they could use.

I haven't played any of the new Ninja Gaidens, but from what I've always heard they are also incredibly hard. It's not exactly a bad thing, the original ones from NES are some of my all time favorite games, and they are nearly impossible too. Of course, I've played the first one so much since it first came out (I still play it regularly to this day) that I can just breeze through it, but that's mainly attributed to having the entire game memorized. I certainly don't expect this one to be anywhere near as good as the originals, but I am still excited to play it.

I haven't played any of the Scribblenauts games, but they have always looked somewhat interesting, but this one looks especially good, I might have to pick it up.

I'm also getting pretty excited for ZombiU, after hearing it is much more of a survival-horror than a FPS. Even if it is getting some bad reviews it seems to be from people who only want a FPS, that it's more survival-horror is a huge plus for me. People who review it as what it is seems to be loving it.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread

Postby Asrialys » 22 Nov 2012 12:41

ddddd wrote:Hmmm, since the HDDs are unusable on PC, SD Cards are useless except for wii transfers, and the web browser wont let us download files... Does this means WiiU has no offline multimedia features at all?

That would be very unfortunate, Wii and 3DS had media playback/viewing :(

Yeah, it's crazy. The 3DS browser can download and upload images while the Wii U's can't. What's up with that?
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby Triforce of the Gods » 22 Nov 2012 13:23

I guess I'm missing all the reused music in NSMBU because I'm enjoying the new music too much.

I have more fun with Nintendo Land with other people. With the exception of the Donkey Kong game. Why is that game so frustrating yet so much fun at the same time?
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby MermaidKelly » 22 Nov 2012 14:49

Devil_Rising wrote:Some of these people are genuinely great artists, for just doodling on that screen with a stylus. It really makes me hope Nintendo makes a new Mario Paint.
That would make my dreams come true!!! Mario Paint was/is one of my favorite games of all time. I spent HOURS on that growing up, practically every day, and always show my dad my latest work (including animation and music) when he came home from work! I would of course want a full revival including the music creation feature and the minigames (fly swatting!). :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen:
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby ddddd » 22 Nov 2012 16:56

Someone has to make an app to send these doodles to twitter or facebook as photos.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby jlatimer11 » 22 Nov 2012 17:17

KingBroly wrote:My game opinions:

Nintendo Land - This game is genuinely excellent. If you hate this game, you hate everything that is good and pure in this world. The music...my goodness the music. Almost every game is good to great, with a couple being excellent. The lone exception being Takamaru's Ninja Castle.

New Super Mario Bros. U - Having motored through this game (not all the Star Coins, no side paths) in a few minutes over 4 hours, I'm sort of disappointed after the fact. The music is criminally copy/pasted for the most part as usual. Nintendo should be slammed for the music of NSMB.

Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge - This game's problem is simple: It's bad hard. There's not really much in the way of learning going on. You'll be punished and punished and punished regardless of what you do. While the core framework is still there, almost everything's been tweaked to make it harder, almost to the point of unbearable. Is it better than Vanilla? Well I haven't killed a dude begging for his life yet, I have more than 1 weapon and the story is slightly less atrocious. It's not a bad game anymore, but I have a hard time calling it good right now.

Scribblenauts Unlimited - I haven't played much of it to give a solid opinion on it, but it looks better than the DS versions, that's for sure. Plus it had a superb opening sequence voiced over by Jennifer Hale.


The Metroid game is so stupidly simple but so stupidly fun.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby KingBroly » 23 Nov 2012 08:40

ddddd wrote:Someone has to make an app to send these doodles to twitter or facebook as photos.


I'm amazed they're so good considering the limited color palette. More colors would be lovely.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby THEWORD777 » 23 Nov 2012 14:03

Only one week today until uk launch.time is gonna drag between now and thursday night,i surpose a maccy D will have to be in order before i buy.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby grcpan » 23 Nov 2012 15:04

A few questions for the American people that already have a WiiU:
Has anyone of you actually tried to connect the WiiU gamepad to a PC usb port to see what would happen?
Not to the WiiU ports since they seem to output little power (having problems with usb powered HDDs), but a USB port of a computer.
So, if anyone tried, did it start charging? or just nothing happened? Did the PC notify you that new unknown hardware is connected to it?
Last edited by grcpan on 23 Nov 2012 15:12, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby jlatimer11 » 23 Nov 2012 15:10

grcpan wrote:A few questions for the American people that already have a WiiU:
Has anyone of you actually tried to connect the WiiU gamepad to a PC usb port to see what would happen?
Not to the WiiU ports since they seem to output little power (having problems with usb powered HDDs), but a USB port of a computer.
So, if anyone tried, did it start charging? or just nothing happened? Did the PC notify you that new unknown hardware is connected to it?

It's not a USB connector. It is the same as the 3DS power port, just bigger.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby grcpan » 23 Nov 2012 15:12

jlatimer11 wrote:
grcpan wrote:A few questions for the American people that already have a WiiU:
Has anyone of you actually tried to connect the WiiU gamepad to a PC usb port to see what would happen?
Not to the WiiU ports since they seem to output little power (having problems with usb powered HDDs), but a USB port of a computer.
So, if anyone tried, did it start charging? or just nothing happened? Did the PC notify you that new unknown hardware is connected to it?

It's not a USB connector. It is the same as the 3DS power port, just bigger.


I see, it looked like a mini-usb. I wonder if it could work with a usb port if someone released an adapter. We will learn in time I guess.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby jlatimer11 » 23 Nov 2012 16:29

grcpan wrote:
jlatimer11 wrote:
grcpan wrote:A few questions for the American people that already have a WiiU:
Has anyone of you actually tried to connect the WiiU gamepad to a PC usb port to see what would happen?
Not to the WiiU ports since they seem to output little power (having problems with usb powered HDDs), but a USB port of a computer.
So, if anyone tried, did it start charging? or just nothing happened? Did the PC notify you that new unknown hardware is connected to it?

It's not a USB connector. It is the same as the 3DS power port, just bigger.


I see, it looked like a mini-usb. I wonder if it could work with a usb port if someone released an adapter. We will learn in time I guess.


For power? Yeah. I have some USB to 3DS power cords and they charge just fine.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby gtt » 23 Nov 2012 17:15

grcpan wrote:A few questions for the American people that already have a WiiU:
Has anyone of you actually tried to connect the WiiU gamepad to a PC usb port to see what would happen?
Not to the WiiU ports since they seem to output little power (having problems with usb powered HDDs), but a USB port of a computer.
So, if anyone tried, did it start charging? or just nothing happened? Did the PC notify you that new unknown hardware is connected to it?


I have connected the pro controller to the usb port on my computer. it not only charged, but windows recognized as a usb input device. now, it isn't seemless like using a 360 controller, but with a driver you could use it on your pc just fine.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby undertaken316 » 24 Nov 2012 11:03

I'm anxiously waiting for the EU launch this friday! And this unboxing got me hyped! Trully amazing work and the most detailed video out there in 1080p.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB7arUmfe64&feature=g-user-u[/youtube]
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby ddddd » 24 Nov 2012 11:33

Practically every game has worse performance than the other versiones, Im running out of options. Is there a multiplatform that is not worse than the 360 and PS3 versions? I would like to get at least one multiplatform game to have something else besides NLand.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby KingBroly » 24 Nov 2012 12:03

Sonic Racing Transformed. It has that one glitch that affects one mode, but it's getting patched soon. Other than that, it's superior to the PS3/360 versions.

And Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge is definitely technically superior to the PS3/360 versions, even though there are framerate drops in it. The PS3/360 versions had more framerate drops AND had screen tearing. There is no tearing in the Wii U version.

There's always Scribblenauts Unlimited. But there's the PC version, which costs $30 less.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby pokemaster515 » 24 Nov 2012 13:23

ddddd wrote:Practically every game has worse performance than the other versiones, Im running out of options. Is there a multiplatform that is not worse than the 360 and PS3 versions? I would like to get at least one multiplatform game to have something else besides NLand.

I haven't really been on the internet much since launch so you might have read stuff about Black Ops 2 that says it performs worse than on other systems, but I honestly haven't noticed anything different from the PS3 version I was playing before I got it on the Wii U. I haven't come across anything weird at all, so perhaps you could get that, it really needs more people playing online.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby Devil_Rising » 24 Nov 2012 18:06

ddddd wrote:Practically every game has worse performance than the other versiones, Im running out of options. Is there a multiplatform that is not worse than the 360 and PS3 versions? I would like to get at least one multiplatform game to have something else besides NLand.


Darksiders, Sonic Racing, Ninja Gaiden, Tekken Tag 2, etc. etc.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby Sammet » 25 Nov 2012 17:50

5 days until UK launch and time has slowed to a snails pace. I've preordered a deluxe plus ZombiU and Mass Effect 3, can't wait for them to get here. I've heard good things about Miiverse and want to try it out myself.
PM me and I'll add you to my 3DS - feel free to add my NNID for WiiU too!
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby Broken_Cartridge » 25 Nov 2012 20:51

I don't know if anyone shared this, but I read an article that I found particularly interesting.

Zelda Informer - Developers Have It Wrong, The Wii U Is Powerful. It's Just Next Generation Powerful

I'm not a tech kind of guy, so I don't really understand any of this mumbo jumbo being thrown around as of late, but from my understanding the major complaint about the Wii U as of now is that the CPU is slow. With that said, ZI is suggesting that the CPU is slow on purpose because the console has a GPGPU which handles processes that CPUs would normally handle (the example given was Physics) and that if developers use the GPGPU for that it would actually function better then running it off of the CPU.

What do you guys think?
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby kksliders » 25 Nov 2012 21:02

shadowbuster wrote:It seems curious that, from what I've seen in the tear downs, at least 3 manufacturers supplied the Wii U's RAM.

In Pcper, the RAM is made by Samsung (https://s3.amazonaws.com/pcper-articlec ... G_8569.JPG)

In Anandtech, the RAM comes from Hynix (http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/vid ... /hynix.jpg)

And iFixit's tear down, the RAM comes form Micron (http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/gqSD ... 2DKCr.huge).

The specs are the same, despite the company who made them. And from the subjective analyses, I thought it was going to be better than ps360 rams


Beware the anonymous authorities and internet cult groupthinkers. A mistake becomes disinformation and gets parroted loudly by the aforementioned cult of groupthink who are very loud on the internet, and often very wrong. Remember, the majority can be wrong, especially when they don't know what they're talking bout (and 'gaffers rarely know what they are talking about).

DDR3 has a 64-bit interface as standard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_bandwidth

I don't know where those guys came up with the "16-bit chip" thing. They're right about the power consumption being lower (and thus the RAM being more expensive for nintendo), but these are still 1600 chips (memory is 800mhz). All of the above different manufacturers are using x16 'wide' chips. I presume this is the source of the "16-bit" disinformation. All this number means is that inside of the actual casing of the RAM are 16 individual 256Mb (megabit, not megabyte) modules that total up to 512MB (megabyte). x8 and x4 are also common widths when the chip contains a higher amount of ram (less rows of larger capacity versus many rows of lower capacity).

Judging by the motherboard traces, the RAM is split into two pools. We already know that the OS reserves 1GB for itself while the other 1GB is available for games. There are traces connecting each pair, but the pairs themselves are not connected to each other, not outside of the CPU/GPU. This could mean the reservation is also a physical separation. In other words, 1GB of system RAM and 1GB of GPU RAM. I don't know where those traces all go, but they are closer to the GPU die than the CPU die.

Anyways, a single 64-bit module of DDR3-1600 would have the bandwidth being toted around the internet - 12.8 GB/sec. There is also a 17gb/sec figure floating around and I'm not sure who came up with it. Maybe they were assuming it was running as DDR3-1866? But DDR3 can be combined into dual channel for double the bus width or a 128-bit bus. All that is required are at least two identical 64-bit ram modules. 64-bit + 64-bit = 128-bit. 128-bit bus = 25.6 GB/sec bandwidth.

The source of this disinformation is apparently beyond3d. Beyond3d used to have contributors from within the industry, but it's largely a ghost town today. The members don't like Nintendo because Nintendo is not the latest tech. I don't think this was deliberate disinformation, more like confirmation bias against Nintendo coupled with ignorance. Sadly, this information is being parroted by Anandtech and the forementioned gaffer cult. That doesn't mean it's true. You can see for yourselves:

http://www.micron.com/~/media/Documents/Products/Data%20Sheet/DRAM/4Gb_1_35V_DDR3L.pdf

https://www.skhynix.com/products/computing/view.jsp?info.ramKind=19&info.serialNo=H5TQ4G63MFR

and again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_bandwidth

It's true that GDDR is superior to DDR, but even nvidia and amd/ati use plain old DDR sometimes. Especially in laptops as well as the middle and low ends. For example:

Image

Notice how it is called DDR3 and not GDDR3, notice the memory speed (800mhz = DDR3-1600), notice the bus width (128-bit) and notice the bandwidth (25.6 GB/sec). Xbox 360 has a bandwidth of 22.4 GB/sec along witch bandwidth advantages due to things like the eDRAM which the Wii U would also have.

So the Wii U has more RAM (2GB vs 512mb), faster RAM (800 MHz vs 360's 700 MHz), more eDRAM, as well as a split RAM pool (1GB for OS, 1GB for games). From a RAM perspective, this is a much more efficient RAM design. So why does Batman's textures have to 'load' and 'stream' sort of in realtime at the start of a new sequence? Because that's how the engine works. Both Arkham Asylum and Arkham City load textures like that on the PC even. I know because looking for the 'sweet spot' I ran the benchmark demo dozens of times and it happened at the start every time, and my PC is a pretty darn good. Engine, not the Wii U's RAM.

So why is everybody claiming something ridiculous to the contrary? Because of Alstrong from B3D and also AnandTech, both of who are wrong despite their 'reputation'. Also because of neogaf and other groupthink internet cults who have no idea what they are talking about and are just repeating information from some other anonymous internet authority who made a mistake. I have no idea where their "16-bit chip and 16-bit x 4 = 64-bit bus width" math is derived from, but it's somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby kksliders » 25 Nov 2012 21:03

Also, Wii U has a better GPU and RAM architecture than the 360. It's GPU is several times more powerful than the one in the 360. As developers said, the weak spot is the CPU. I also don't think the CPU is a more powerful broadway. That architecture never made it past 90nm. It's probably based on Power 7 like even IBM said before (and the recent source that said it was not, was redacted) and it's probably 1.26ghz but it's not wise to compare ghz to ghz in terms of the CPU in the 360 (think core 2 duo to pentium 4). In direct comparison, it is probably weaker in many ways but also more efficient and better in ways which are not yet understood. Since the 360 and Wii U are both AMD/PPC, it appears that the launch ports were quick-and-dirty with no further optimization to make up for the difference in CPU architecture. Even PS2 launch games that were DC ports (like DOA2) ran worse because the devs didn't understand the vector units so they didn't even use them. Metal Gear Solid 2 ran choppier on the more-powerful Xbox than on PS2. RE4HD is missing all of the GCN-specific normal maps and thus much of it's visual quality and art style.

There was no parity with 360-PS3 upon PS3's launch. EA sports titles ran at half the framerate. CoD 3 was vastly inferior. Now parity more or less exists. Devs just ported 360 assets (due to partially shared architecture), called it a day, and shipped it. Even if COD:BO2 has a lower framerate in many scenes, you can play it on the controller while somebody watches the TV. That's a huge bonus for many gamers as is the local multiplayer instead of traditional split screen. And you can use the wiimote as a 'mouse' for superior (to some gamers anyways) controls.

But I didn't buy the Wii U for ports anyways. I bought it for Nintendo exclusives and I can't wait to see them in HD. I'll buy ports if they are superior to other platforms and the devs actually care to optimize it for the different hardware rather than port the assets from the 360 with little or no optimization. Just wait until a good engine comes out, that's what Retro is working on. Engines... And a game that 'everybody wants them to do' (psst... Zelda). Wii U is capable of looking like an actual generational leap from the 360. Just wait and see. And as for the 720 and PS4, despite the success of the 360, MS admits it doesn't give them much money. They are taking on Apple and the nextbox is a 'conservative' upgrade with a 'smaller size' and energy-efficient design. I don't know why the fans are expecting a cutting edge box with what is known about the 720. As for PS3, Sony has no money so I'd be curious what direction they go in. Either way, Wii U will be able to keep up. Not with the best the PC can offer of course, but after the launch kinks are ironed out and the facts get out there (like the proper 25.6 GB/s memory bandwidth) people will understand. Even that digital foundry guy is repeating the disinfo. Some day this collective social hive mind and group thinking will be the end of us. When 2+2=5 according to internet experts, I'm still going to tell everybody that 2+2=4, even if I'm the only one.
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby hergipotter » 26 Nov 2012 06:43

kksliders wrote:DDR3 has a 64-bit interface as standard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_bandwidth

Yes that's true but i think wikipedia is not really precise with it's nomenclature what leads you to a false interpretation imo.
In DRAM devices for PCs, there are several chips of RAM combined in one rank with a standard interface of 64 bit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR_SDRAM# ... cteristics
Nonetheless each of these chips, that form the rank, has its own databus width (x4, x8 or x16).
Image
(src: http://books.google.de/books/about/Memo ... edir_esc=y page 413)
The four chips on the WiiU board imo are nothing but such single chips, so i guess the 12.8 GB/s thing is the truth...
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Re: Wii U - The Launch Info Thread (Happy Launch Day!)

Postby ddddd » 26 Nov 2012 07:55

Broken_Cartridge wrote:I don't know if anyone shared this, but I read an article that I found particularly interesting.

Zelda Informer - Developers Have It Wrong, The Wii U Is Powerful. It's Just Next Generation Powerful

I'm not a tech kind of guy, so I don't really understand any of this mumbo jumbo being thrown around as of late, but from my understanding the major complaint about the Wii U as of now is that the CPU is slow. With that said, ZI israelí suggesting that the CPU is slow on purpose because the console has a GPGPU which handles processes that CPUs would normally handle (the example given was Physics) and that if developers use the GPGPU for that it would actually function better then running it off of the CPU.

What do you guys think?

First, that you should feel bad for visiting Zelda Informer :P
Second, thats some Yamauchi level of trolling if they really did that, which makes no sense since any dev working on WiiU would know how to or if they should use it.
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