Team Ninja - Wii U Power

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Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Suke » 12 Nov 2012 21:58

Yosuke Hayashi, the head of Team Ninja, says :

“In terms of power, it’s right up there with PS3 and Xbox 360 plus the power to run the extra screen on the controller. There is plenty of power there to use. For all of Nintendo’s hardware, it’s not about power; it’s about how you creatively use the hardware. When we make games for Nintendo, they are going to come and challenge us to use that hardware to make a creative game. That’s the key point from Nintendo that we always feel.”

Do you agree?
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Amputech » 12 Nov 2012 22:23

I agree with Nintendo focusing on other aspects of gaming, frankly more important aspects at that. I don't agree with his wording of "up there with PS3." Wii U is definitely more powerful than the others. Maybe not by a lot, but more for sure.

It's outlandish that he is making it seem that Team Ninja fully tapped the power of Wii U with an enhanced port. That may not have been his intention, but it definitely came out sounding like that. So bad.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby KingBroly » 12 Nov 2012 22:29

I think he means Team Ninja unlocked their true potential with Wii U. I'm not holding my breath, to be honest. They have produced nothing since Ninja Gaiden Black that screams "Complete Work."

In either, case, Team Ninja Dog sucks as a developer. I can't say much for them as human beings though, but I can't imagine placing them highly.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby J0RdAnN » 12 Nov 2012 22:52

I want Ninja Giaden to be a good series so I play the games and force myself to like them even though I know they really are mediocre at best. While maiming enemies is fun, and some clever puzzle/platforming elements are in the more recent titles. The game is complete shovel if you paste the story together and some of the enemies is the game are more cheap then challenging to fight. I'd love for Ninja Giaden to fall in the hands of a team that (like Retro) the respects and understands what made the IP so great but is still able to effectively modernize it.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby KingBroly » 12 Nov 2012 23:12

Proof of Team Ninja's Power?:
https://twitter.com/aegies/status/268178426383437825

unfortunately we probs will not be reviewing ninja gaiden 3 razor's edge due to time. short version: it seems worse than before.


Some might ask how this is even possible. It's very simple. If they just made it NG2's combat on NG3's level design, even with scenario changes, the two at that point no longer mesh.

EDIT:
Then again, he also said the following:
whichever third party makes a controller with offset analog sticks takes my money"

"fucking a and b buttons are not placed correctly, they should follow the standard set by microsoft 10 years ago"


Surely...the second part must be a joke. Has to be.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Eternal Rain » 12 Nov 2012 23:25

KingBroly wrote:Proof of Team Ninja's Power?:
https://twitter.com/aegies/status/268178426383437825

unfortunately we probs will not be reviewing ninja gaiden 3 razor's edge due to time. short version: it seems worse than before.


Some might ask how this is even possible. It's very simple. If they just made it NG2's combat on NG3's level design, even with scenario changes, the two at that point no longer mesh.


Who is this guy? And personally I find this hard to believe that's it'd honestly be "worse."

Also I don't really follow anyone regarding "power" comments, I'll let the games speak for themselves.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby KingBroly » 12 Nov 2012 23:41

You should wait for more reviews I feel. One more gem from him for the road:

the WiiU games using "a" as confirm, where the "a" position has universally become "back," is idiotic.


Just...no. I'm sorry, no.

EDIT:
I have read an explanation of what he means, and yeah, if they took away powers you had from the get go so you have to upgrade them and they forgot to/didn't balance the game to make up for those changes, then...wow, Team Ninja Dog is really shameful.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Eternal Rain » 12 Nov 2012 23:48

KingBroly wrote:You should wait for more reviews I feel. One more gem from him for the road:

the WiiU games using "a" as confirm, where the "a" position has universally become "back," is idiotic.


Just...no. I'm sorry, no.


I remember A being confirm in other games on Nintendo consoles, I think people only say that because the Xbox control scheme reversed it by putting B where A would be on the Nintendo set up (Xbox face button set up is obviously just Nintendo set up in reverse).

If anything I feel Microsoft has messed up people's minds about that by reversing the set up and their controller becoming more well known in the past decade. Nintendo didn't use that set up on N64 and Gamecube. and only returned to it on DS and Wii classic controller, but now brought it back in full force on Wii U (and of course A was the primary confirm button on N64 and Gamecube, like it usually was on SNES and NES).
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby KingBroly » 13 Nov 2012 00:16

Well Microsoft did bankroll his site, after all. I mean, he can proclaim Journalistic Integrity all he wants, but that's never really going away. When he makes comparisons to Xbox "setting a standard" he really needs to thinks carefully about his statements.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Eternal Rain » 13 Nov 2012 00:29

KingBroly wrote:Well Microsoft did bankroll his site, after all. I mean, he can proclaim Journalistic Integrity all he wants, but that's never really going away. When he makes comparisons to Xbox "setting a standard" he really needs to thinks carefully about his statements.


I'm going to be honest, I have no clue if you're being sarcastic or not. I was not accusing the guy of being an Xbox fanboy, I was merely stating that, after going multiple generations without using the SNES face button layout, people seems to have gotten so used to the "reversed" layout on the Xbox controllers (though Nintendo did bring back the SNES face button set up on DS and Wii classic controllers though). Most games I can think of on Nintendo consoles that use a standard face buttons use A for confirm and B for back, but people have gotten so used to the reversed Xbox scheme that they tend to forget Nintendo's layout.

Xbox:
----Y
--X--B
----A

Nintendo set up started with SNES:
----X
--Y--A
----B
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby KingBroly » 13 Nov 2012 01:31

It's the truth. When you have a major publisher back your site and your site claims to be "the future of games journalism" when people find that out, eyebrows will always be slightly raised at you, especially when you claim something set a standard without backing up your claim, particularly when your claim is wrong since your view of history is narrow.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Eternal Rain » 13 Nov 2012 01:57

KingBroly wrote:EDIT:
I have read an explanation of what he means, and yeah, if they took away powers you had from the get go so you have to upgrade them and they forgot to/didn't balance the game to make up for those changes, then...wow, Team Ninja Dog is really shameful.


Well hold on, wasn't one of the points of this game involving the game being harder than the original release? People complained that NGIII on the PS3 and 360 was too easy compared to Ninja Gaiden I and II, so for Razor's Edge they did stuff like improve the enemy AI and make the default difficulty harder (and doesn't the game have multiple difficulty settings? I know NGII did, "Acolyte" was sort of the normal setting, and "warrior" was like the hard mode) They made enemies more aggressive, like they don't cower anymore and they'll still come at you when limbs get dismembered (just like in NGII).

Most hack-n-slash games I play with upgrade systems will always start you off weak and you just improve your skills as you go. Learn new moves, upgrade weapons, health, etc. You start off weak, but become more and more powerful as you progress, making you feel like all of your mastery of the game's mechanics are really paying off.

KingBroly wrote:It's the truth. When you have a major publisher back your site and your site claims to be "the future of games journalism" when people find that out, eyebrows will always be slightly raised at you, especially when you claim something set a standard without backing up your claim, particularly when your claim is wrong since your view of history is narrow.


So it's kinda hard to trust him then? I can see that, especially if the guy is blatantly ignoring an important piece of gaming history. The SNES pretty much set the standard for face buttons on many modern controllers, and also gave us the shoulder buttons (Genesis controller, while still comfy to use, was basically a NES controller with one extra button).
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby KingBroly » 13 Nov 2012 02:37

Basically he's saying this:

In Ninja Gaiden 3:
- You had all of your abilities at max
- The enemies were balanced to that fact

In Razor's Edge:
- Your abilities aren't at max
- You have to collect Essence and visit shops to upgrade them
- The enemies are still balanced like you were played Ninja Gaiden 3 Vanilla

If that's true, that is a major problem because Ninja Gaiden 3 was very mashy as is. If what he said about RE is true, then the game is even mashier than before. I.E. more tedious and more broken.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Eternal Rain » 13 Nov 2012 13:46

Okay so you're saying enemies are tougher because your abilities are weaker from the start? That's actually what I was expecting it to be like. Start off weak and get better. NGII was the same way, I got my butt handed to me a lot early, but as I improved my skills and mastered them then I found a better balance to the difficulty (aside from a few cheap spamming tricks some enemies would do, like those annoying centaurs and their spear attack you couldn't get out of). Have Muramasa improve your weapons when you have the essence, use health increasing items when you need them (I saved them for bosses, easy trick to get full health without using a healing item), check your move lists when you upgrade so you can learn the button combos for attacks, and create different attack strategies with your weapons. Also make sure you time your devastation and ninpo attacks well, they can really help get you out of a bind. You're not restricted to just the Dragon Sword this time in Razor's Edge, you've got at least 4 more weapons to create strategies around.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby KingBroly » 13 Nov 2012 14:08

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/11/13/n ... dge-review

Two things:
#1 - It looks worse than the PS3/360 versions (DAT Team Ninja Power :S)
#2 - Gamepad isn't a good fit for the game, Pro Controller preferred (I'm...not surprised)
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Syne49 » 13 Nov 2012 14:20

The guy everyone is talking about is a fool named Mitch Dyer. This shill is a freelancer for various independent gaming magazines. This is a video that basically ends up describing what kind of guy this is. Skip to around the 6 minute mark for him to start talking about it. It takes a bit but I figure people need context on why DSP said this guy is a total idiot.

Point being that you shouldn't believe anything this guy says. Could Ninja Gaiden 3 RE be awful? Of course its possible that it could be, but I wouldn't take this guy at his word for it. I can't find it but there is also a video showing him playing NG3RE, and he is absolutely AWFUL at it.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby KingBroly » 13 Nov 2012 14:32

No, we're not talking about him. Now please stop spamming this site with off-topic posts and advertisement links that I've removed.

Jim Sterling's Review on Destructoid (5.5/10):
http://www.destructoid.com/review-ninja ... 8412.phtml

Says it's better, but not by much. He goes into good detail about it as well. Online wasn't up yet, so it wasn't incorporated into his review.

EDIT:
GamesRader (2.5/5)
http://www.gamesradar.com/ninja-gaiden- ... ge-review/
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Syne49 » 13 Nov 2012 14:38

Uh the guy who made the claim about the controllers buttons being an Microsoft standard was Mitch. He is also the one being quoted as saying there is something fundamentally wrong with NGRE. Okay though I will stop spamming your site with "off topic posts".
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Eternal Rain » 13 Nov 2012 16:38

Broly, I have to ask, why are you so intent on making other people dislike this game as much as you, and only look at the bad aspects of reviews? The IGN review didn't say the game was terrible, they just said it's not perfect, but it's still a fun game for anyone who's a fan of the series (like me). Also the graphical comments do seem odd since I just saw a comparison video that showed me that, if anything, there's really no difference aside from the Wii U version having better lighting.

I plan on getting the game, and your "convincing" is not gonna change that. I know you're still sore about Other M, but not everyone thinks the same as you do. =\ *likes Other M*
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby KingBroly » 13 Nov 2012 17:31

I don't have some kind of vendetta against Team Ninja. I don't want to hate Ninja Gaiden. I'm just trying to point out that Team Ninja doesn't really have any credibility right now when it comes to game design, game development or "unlocking a console's true power." There's a reason why people call them "Team Ninja Dog" now you know. It's because the people behind it either don't know how to make a decent action game, don't care to, or are just plain incompetent. When Hayashi goes out of his way to blame Western fans for NG3 turning out the way it did by trying to cater to them, I have to call bullshit because the first two games did that by simply trying to be as awesome as possible.

I've played Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge before. I had concerns then as I do now. While some of things have been removed (i.e. certain QTE's), others that hampered the game's design (i.e. climbing QTE's) remained. While getting rid of scared Ninjas and murdering begging dudes is a good decision, changing the combat design without changing the way you handle those enemies isn't. While adding dismemberment and gore is good, hurting performance offsets that good. If Razor's Edge gives while still having the take from vanilla, it's still not a good game. And thus, Team Ninja still has yet to prove themselves from a design standpoint, Hayashi in particular.
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Re: Team Ninja - Wii U Power

Postby Eternal Rain » 13 Nov 2012 18:03

Okay, I at least now have a better understanding of what you're getting at, and I understand, but I don't really think the same way. IMO Team Ninja wasn't just Itagaki and a bunch of other guys sitting around while Itagaki did most of the work, a company can still live on and create good games even without their so called "head" (Sakurai is an example I commonly use, he left HAL Labs in 2003 and hasn't worked on a Kirby game since Air Ride, and both Kirby and HAL have done just fine without Sakurai for almost a decade now). Opinions on a game's quality will always vary from person to person, and all I ever really ask for is to at least give a game a chance before completely writing it off (though I'll admit I'll give exception when the reception is universally negative, like Superman 64, which was a broken mess, something I do not see with NG3:RE, and heck even NG3 regular didn't look like a broken mess to me).

I loved NG Black and NG2, and Razor's Edge looks like it'll at least deliver an experience that's about as fun as those two were. I'm gonna go into kinda cautiously, I'll give you that much, and I doubt it'll be Bayonetta level quality, but I'm still expecting it'll be a fun game that'll be well worth my time and money.
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