Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

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Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby robometal cowboy » 14 Dec 2012 05:19

Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts
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A good thing about the account system on the Wii U is the sharing of content. One account downloads a game, all accounts get to play it. Unfortunately, that system works against gamers when it comes to demos. While all accounts get to share a demo, it also means the demo play limit applies to all accounts. In other words, each time an account accesses a demo, it takes one play session away from the overall total.

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Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby MASTERLINKX » 14 Dec 2012 05:22

I had a feeling this is how it'd be.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby MatrosRx » 14 Dec 2012 05:28

Hmm, makes sense since you could make 12 accounts and have 12 times the playability. But the limits in the first place don't make sense, soooo...
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby cdreams » 14 Dec 2012 05:49

What I'm curious about is, can you delete the demo and all save files created for it and then re-download it again from scratch and get the play counter renewed back to 30 plays?

Also if you're reading this RMC, do you know when the UK is supposedly getting the Sonic Racing demo that the US got yesterday? There's still nothing on the UK eShop but would be good to know we're getting it too at some point.
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Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby MoldyClay » 14 Dec 2012 06:17

Well that's stupid.

Demo restrictions are stupid as it is (there's no reason for them just as much as there's no reason to play them 30 times), but this is absurd.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby coffeewithchess » 14 Dec 2012 06:26

MoldyClay wrote:Well that's stupid.

Demo restrictions are stupid as it is (there's no reason for them just as much as there's no reason to play them 30 times), but this is absurd.


Actually, demo restrictions aren't stupid from a business perspective at all; speaking as a Wii owner with an SD card FULL of demos that were played LOTS. When you have little ones, often times a one level demo is all they need to keep entertained for a while. Meaning I have lots of WiiWare demos downloaded and our oldest can play the demos all day long, and we never have to purchase the full games. With limits, perhaps we might have actually purchased a few of the demos we had instead of just keeping the demos? I honestly have no idea, but I can see why limiting them makes a lot of sense.
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Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby XCWarrior » 14 Dec 2012 07:59

Who plays a demo more than once? It's a demo. You play it, you get a feel for how the game is, you're done with it. There a couple of them that I played twice, but jeez so much complaining about something so not important.

The internet always needs something to complain about.
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Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby Kam » 14 Dec 2012 10:02

I was thinking this may be the case when i downloaded the rayman demo this morning. My children tend to play demos quit often until i get them the full game. I'm not to bothered about the restriction as i've come downstairs on a few saturday mornings and had to tell them to stop playing demos.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby Fred Duck » 14 Dec 2012 12:28

coffeewithchess wrote:Actually, demo restrictions aren't stupid from a business perspective at all; speaking as a Wii owner with an SD card FULL of demos that were played LOTS. When you have little ones, often times a one level demo is all they need to keep entertained for a while. Meaning I have lots of WiiWare demos downloaded and our oldest can play the demos all day long, and we never have to purchase the full games. With limits, perhaps we might have actually purchased a few of the demos we had instead of just keeping the demos? I honestly have no idea, but I can see why limiting them makes a lot of sense.


Well, too bad. I'm not a business; I'm a potential customer. As such, I only care about the time and bandwidth I spend. As far as I can tell, [EDIT: before downloading,] there's no indication on the demo how many times you can use it before it'll self-destruct, so I had no way of knowing how much use I could get out of say, the 1GB FIFA demo. When you have a 150GB/month cap, that's a significant amount of data to throw away on something that can only be used ten measly times, and at DSL speeds, that tied up the connection for quite a long time (at least an hour). Someone on GN said it made sense to limit how many times you could play the FIFA demo but no, not really. There are all kinds of other ways to limit the demo: time out after five minutes, only have a few teams, only have a couple fake teams, don't allow multiplayer, etc.

I've heard the "kids will play the demo over and over" excuse before but hey, the point of a demo is to show off what the game is like to encourage sales. If the demo isn't good enough to get the sale, then it's a failed demo. If the kid is young enough that a single level will entertain them, would it be worthwhile to buy a full $30~50 game?

Having an unlimited demo is a vote of confidence on the part of the publisher. It shows they feel their product is so amazing, that once you get a taste, you'll definitely want to get more.

Having a limited demo also looks really stingy. "Here's a tiny fraction of the game. You can only play it a couple times." It's putting limits on limits!

What about people who lug their systems to other people's houses? (Don't laugh; they sell bags specifically for Wii U.) Wouldn't it be a good thing to be able to whip out the demo and show to someone, if you didn't happen to bring the disc along, but had downloaded the demo? This is even more relevant on 3DS unless you happen to carry every single game with you at all times.

Companies can take care of themselves. We consumers have to look after our own interests. Self-destructing media is never a good thing for consumers.
Last edited by Fred Duck on 14 Dec 2012 18:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby LordRoto » 14 Dec 2012 12:46

after you play a demo once you should get a feel of if you like the game or not. Then you go buy the full thing, or not. Demos only have access to early short segments for the most part, I don't know any demos besides online multiplayer only games that people will pop in more than 30 times. Stupid complaint
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby bszelda » 14 Dec 2012 12:48

Nintendo really needs to learn how to better implement Internet into their consoles. They are so worried about piracy and whatnot that it's hurting their console experience.
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Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby Mirai » 14 Dec 2012 12:54

Don't see this as a problem.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby majestik12 » 14 Dec 2012 13:50

Fred Duck wrote:
coffeewithchess wrote:Actually, demo restrictions aren't stupid from a business perspective at all; speaking as a Wii owner with an SD card FULL of demos that were played LOTS. When you have little ones, often times a one level demo is all they need to keep entertained for a while. Meaning I have lots of WiiWare demos downloaded and our oldest can play the demos all day long, and we never have to purchase the full games. With limits, perhaps we might have actually purchased a few of the demos we had instead of just keeping the demos? I honestly have no idea, but I can see why limiting them makes a lot of sense.


Well, too bad. I'm not a business; I'm a potential customer. As such, I only care about the time and bandwidth I spend. As far as I can tell, there's no indication on the demo how many times you can use it before it'll self-destruct, so I had no way of knowing how much use I could get out of say, the 1GB FIFA demo. When you have a 150GB/month cap, that's a significant amount of data to throw away on something that can only be used ten measly times, and at DSL speeds, that tied up the connection for quite a long time (at least an hour). Someone on GN said it made sense to limit how many times you could play the FIFA demo but no, not really. There are all kinds of other ways to limit the demo: time out after five minutes, only have a few teams, only have a couple fake teams, don't allow multiplayer, etc.

I've heard the "kids will play the demo over and over" excuse before but hey, the point of a demo is to show off what the game is like to encourage sales. If the demo isn't good enough to get the sale, then it's a failed demo. If the kid is young enough that a single level will entertain them, would it be worthwhile to buy a full $30~50 game?

Having an unlimited demo is a vote of confidence on the part of the publisher. It shows they feel their product is so amazing, that once you get a taste, you'll definitely want to get more.

Having a limited demo also looks really stingy. "Here's a tiny fraction of the game. You can only play it a couple times." It's putting limits on limits!

What about people who lug their systems to other people's houses? (Don't laugh; they sell bags specifically for Wii U.) Wouldn't it be a good thing to be able to whip out the demo and show to someone, if you didn't happen to bring the disc along, but had downloaded the demo? This is even more relevant on 3DS unless you happen to carry every single game with you at all times.

Companies can take care of themselves. We consumers have to look after our own interests. Self-destructing media is never a good thing for consumers.


um, before you start the demo it tells you have many more play times are left, and you have to hit ok, so yeah it does tell you. And as this is a free sample, they are free to do whatever they want. You are not paying for anything, it is completely free for you. But it did costs the developer to make and distribute the demo. The only thing that is stingy about it is, someone playing a free demo over and over and forgoing buying or paying for any of it.

your other reasons are pretty bad as well.

How is unlimited plays a vote of confidence on the publisher, I would think the opposite. If it is an amazing game with only 1-2 play limit, then if the user wants to play more of the amazing game they would be more likely to go pick it up. So the publisher is only giving a small taste, knowing you will want more. I cant imagine why a publisher would want someone to just play a demo over and over again and they gain nothing financially from it, and actually loose money.

Also, if you forgot your game disc when going to a friends house, it is your fault, not the developers. Yeah a demo is convenient but that is all it is, a convenience provided solely on behalf of the publisher.

If you don't know if you like a game within 1-2 play sessions, then you are doing it wrong. If you do like the free demo and play it 100 times, then you are essentially just getting a free ride. You cant complain when you loose your free ride. It was free to begin with.

Also, I know of a secret way to make it non self destructing media. You go and pay for it.

Not saying that I prefer limited plays, but it is not hard to fathom why it is there. And could also encourage publishers to put out demos, when maybe they wouldn't have before. And hopefully it will provide them with more sales, that will in turn give consumers more games or better financed games.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby majestik12 » 14 Dec 2012 14:03

bszelda wrote:Nintendo really needs to learn how to better implement Internet into their consoles. They are so worried about piracy and whatnot that it's hurting their console experience.


I dont see how this comment has anything to do with the discussion at hand. What exactly are they missing because they are worried about piracy?

We have digital games available on day 1 for most games.
We are able to put them on almost any external USB HDD

The only thing I can think of is stuff being tied to the hardware, but I dont see how that has to do with how they implement internet. And they do provide a liscenese transfer, if you do need to change hardware anyway.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby M1 » 14 Dec 2012 16:34

bszelda wrote:Nintendo really needs to learn how to better implement Internet into their consoles. They are so worried about piracy and whatnot that it's hurting their console experience.

Actually this was part of the 3rd party demands.

So if you want Nintendo to get 3rd party support, you have to put with this kind of stuff.

If Nintendo didn't do this, it would have driven more 3rd parties away.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby Fred Duck » 14 Dec 2012 18:12

majestik12 wrote:um, before you start the demo it tells you have many more play times are left

Whoops, wanted to say "before downloading." Sorry about that.

majestik12 wrote:And as this is a free sample, they are free to do whatever they want.

Sure, even if we pay, they're free to do whatever they want. Your point?

majestik12 wrote:But it did costs the developer to make and distribute the demo.

And it costs us to get it, as well, in the form of bandwidth and time. The purpose of a demo is to increase sales for the publisher. We're "paying" for an advertisement! Clearly, they have to have some idea of what percentage of people they expect to play the demo and then purchase as a result and no one would expect that percentage to be 100%.

majestik12 wrote:The only thing that is stingy about it is, someone playing a free demo over and over and forgoing buying or paying for any of it.

Well, the point of a demo is to show off what the game is like to encourage sales. If the demo isn't good enough to get the sale, then it's a failed demo.

majestik12 wrote:How is unlimited plays a vote of confidence on the publisher, I would think the opposite. If it is an amazing game with only 1-2 play limit, then if the user wants to play more of the amazing game they would be more likely to go pick it up. So the publisher is only giving a small taste, knowing you will want more.


It's like a magician saying, "You can look at my props as much as you want." vs "You can only look for two seconds." Which shows more confidence? Unlimited time = the magician believes you won't figure the trick out. Confidence. Similarly, unlimited use shows they feel their product is so amazing, that once you get a taste, you'll definitely want to get more. Sure, you could play that level as much as you want, but it will impress you so much that you'll go get the whole game.

majestik12 wrote:I cant imagine why a publisher would want someone to just play a demo over and over again and they gain nothing financially from it, and actually loose money.


I can't either. The point of a demo is to show off what the game is like to encourage sales. If the demo isn't good enough to get the sale, then it's a failed demo.

But it's not all about financials! People focus so closely on that, but word of mouth is important. People getting excited is important. People who are excited or interested would want to play the demo over, but if there's a countdown hanging over your head...that definitely dampens excitement and interest. Do you watch movies more than once? Do you ever notice things on multiple viewings that you didn't see? Interested people will look for those things.

majestik12 wrote:Also, if you forgot your game disc when going to a friends house, it is your fault, not the developers. Yeah a demo is convenient but that is all it is, a convenience provided solely on behalf of the publisher.

Well, the publisher has lost an opportunity for the game to be demonstrated. Sure, my fault. Who loses?

majestik12 wrote:If you don't know if you like a game within 1-2 play sessions, then you are doing it wrong. If you do like the free demo and play it 100 times, then you are essentially just getting a free ride. You cant complain when you loose your free ride. It was free to begin with.

Sure, most people can make decisions within thirty tries, but I'm not suggesting this is all for one person. If you have siblings or friends who want to see, these few tries can be burnt through pretty quickly. Sometimes, things come up and you can't even play the demo through in one sitting. Sometimes the power goes out. Things happen and having a counter hanging over your head is not a good feeling.

majestik12 wrote:Also, I know of a secret way to make it non self destructing media. You go and pay for it.

That's not making it. My point is that "self-destructing media is never a good thing for consumers." Any media.

majestik12 wrote:Not saying that I prefer limited plays, but it is not hard to fathom why it is there. And could also encourage publishers to put out demos, when maybe they wouldn't have before. And hopefully it will provide them with more sales, that will in turn give consumers more games or better financed games.

Why do we need to fathom reasons for limited plays? Encourage demos? We've had game demos since the '90s and it's only recently that publishers have decided to limit them. How on earth did the industry ever survive the 10+ years with purely unlimited demos? Explain this to me.
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Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby archer9234 » 14 Dec 2012 18:25

Demos weren't available to everyone in the 90's. You had to use the store unit or a magazine for them.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby Fred Duck » 14 Dec 2012 21:21

archer9234 wrote:Demos weren't available to everyone in the 90's. You had to use the store unit or a magazine for them.


In the '90s, once you got them you could still play them an unlimited number of times and share them with your friends. You could also get demos from BBSes and the internet.

Finally, I said *SINCE* the '90s.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby M1 » 15 Dec 2012 15:00

Fred Duck wrote:
archer9234 wrote:Demos weren't available to everyone in the 90's. You had to use the store unit or a magazine for them.


In the '90s, once you got them you could still play them an unlimited number of times and share them with your friends. You could also get demos from BBSes and the internet.

Finally, I said *SINCE* the '90s.

this is revisionist history.

Most demos in the 90s had limits on them.

Few had unlimited demos
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby Fred Duck » 15 Dec 2012 15:02

M1 wrote:this is revisionist history.

Most demos in the 90s had limits on them.

Few had unlimited demos


Revisionist how? Find me a demo from the '90s that had a limit on plays (ie, self-destructs).
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby M1 » 15 Dec 2012 15:10

Fred Duck wrote:
M1 wrote:this is revisionist history.

Most demos in the 90s had limits on them.

Few had unlimited demos


Revisionist how? Find me a demo from the '90s that had a limit on plays (ie, self-destructs).


There were plenty that had limited usage be it time or play numbers on PC.
I played/owned many of them.

The day of unlimited demos is short lived because gamers would rather play the demo then buy the game.
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby Fred Duck » 16 Dec 2012 10:09

M1 wrote:There were plenty that had limited usage be it time or play numbers on PC.
I played/owned many of them.


Great, such as..?
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Re: Wii U demo limits are shared between all user accounts

Postby Fred Duck » 19 Dec 2012 09:40

Hey, it's cool if I overlooked something but so far, you haven't given me a single link to any '90s demo with limits, or even a link to an article talking about one. It looks like the one revising history is not me.

My point is that we've had entirely unlimited demos for over ten years and the advent of the limited demo is a pretty new thing. People in an earlier thread said some (several? many?) ps3 demos are also limited-use, but when we lose something that we've had for years and years like the ability to play demos as much as we like, why do people rationalize it away as nothing? How does this benefit customers? Why do normal people suddenly decide to stick up for the companies making these anti-consumer decisions? Do people want more restrictions?
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