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Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninten...

Postby robometal cowboy » 19 Nov 2012 18:33

Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Nintendoed Nintendo
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Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion...two games that Nintendo fans know very well. Metroid Prime stands out as a high watermark for the entire franchise. Metroid Fusion certainly has its fans, but it's not usually at the top of the list for favorite entries in the franchise. Still, these two Metroid games show how Samus was both evolving and refining within two different outings.

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Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Nintendoe

Postby Master Mo » 19 Nov 2012 18:38

Dude, too much Text... People think about this crap way too much. Who cares.

Nintendo, make a 2D Metroid game for 3DS. Nuff said!
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby internet » 19 Nov 2012 18:50

ah yes another installment of "everyone-does-better-nintendo-games-than-nintendo" this time it's a special edition mixed with "retro-should-develop-every-nintendo-games"

and i really liked the prime trilogy (especially with the pointer) and had a tremendous hard time to complete the dkc coop game. And waiting impatiently for either next installment by them

by the way , at that time most critics experts analysts message boards person thought fusion was the greatest metroid game . Of course when the same guy was in charge of a new one , that didn't went well ... because of the story . And now with a simple video full of clichés gta 5 is again "hollywood" worthy . What a joke
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Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Nintendoe

Postby AnoukiAgentYellow » 19 Nov 2012 18:59

Yeah whether Metroid Prime Trilogy or Metroid Fusion are better has nothing to do with personal preference since they're practically different genres.
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Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Nintendoe

Postby StarStabbedMoon » 19 Nov 2012 19:06

@internet
In the article's defense, they're talking about two very specific games to compare against, which makes it less about the developers themselves and more about this isolated event. Metroid Prime 2 and 3, while good in their own right, were an obvious example of how much a deviation the Prime series was rather than a vision of Metroid's future. In contrast, the first Prime, I believe, was hands-down better than Fusion and did so by sticking to what made the previous games so amazing rather than deviating like Metroid Fusion.

The direct comparison that forms the article is also very valuable in that it breaks the trend of everyone wanting to compare the Trilogy against Other M, which are really just the end result of the two games that are compared here. The design of Fusion led directly to Other M, just as the design of Metroid Prime led to the sequential development of the whole trilogy. It's really these two games that should be compared first and foremost.
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Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Nintendoe

Postby StarStabbedMoon » 19 Nov 2012 19:08

@AnoukiAgentYellow
It has everything to do with personal preference. Gaming critique is not an objective science (nor is game development). Just because because two things are too different to compare doesn't mean people will still compare them anyway. It's impossible not to.
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Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Nintendoe

Postby thorn-rock » 19 Nov 2012 19:32

Out nintendoed nintendo?
With Metroid Prime?

......
hahahaha no.

First of all the games are so different that it's really hard to compare them, and second, Prime is a totally different experience.

The prime games are very good games but they don't feel like you're playing a metroid game. They don't replicate the gameplay or even the type of story the series is supposed to deliver. They're pretty good at recreating a similar atmosphere though. They play great and all but they don't play like the main outings: they are slow paced and lack fluidity. The story is just your average action science fiction game story when the main outings have always been about bringing novelty.

Again I'm not saying that the Prime games are bad, I absolutely loved them. For example one of the things they were awesome for was the brilliant backgrounds elements which were definitely better than what we get background wise in the main series.

But they are spin-offs. They are de facto and they feel like spin offs when playing them anyway. It's an interesting take on the series, but in my opinion the real 3D Metroid has not been released yet. OtherM gets a lot of things right but even if I loved it, I have to admit it didn't gather the fans like a true classic Metroid game should.

@StarStabbedMoon

I like what you said about the article being at least coherent because it does not compare the sequels but two games that attempted to do new things with the series. But still I find a lot more elements in Fusion to tie it to the first games. Prime is really something different and just like you said, the lack of new ideas in the sequels showed that it was never meant to be a vision of the future of the series. There is no long term ambition in that series. Which, again, does not mean it's bad in any way. I personnaly liked all three games in the series.

@pokemaster515

haha good point ^^
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby pokemaster515 » 19 Nov 2012 19:36

How could Retro Out-Nintendo Nintendo with Nintendo holding their hand when ever they make a game?
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby NightsOwl » 19 Nov 2012 20:03

I prefer Fusion.

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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby Bobbuffalo » 19 Nov 2012 20:06

Turning samus in an obnoxious, anime doll is "evolving"? yeah right...

Go to hell sakamoto.
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby ClaudeLv250 » 19 Nov 2012 20:14

Super Metroid is still the best.
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby wisdomcouragepower » 19 Nov 2012 20:20

Bobbuffalo wrote:Turning samus in an obnoxious, anime doll is "evolving"? yeah right...

Go to hell sakamoto.


Yeah it's not like Sakamoto created Samus so that he could do whatever he wanted or anything... oh wait!
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby Devil_Rising » 19 Nov 2012 20:26

Metroid Prime is a great game, and Retro did some amazing stuff with it that I never thought could have been done with FP Metroid. But to say they "out Nintendoed Nintendo"? No. Fusion was a great game also. And very much followed the Super Metroid mold. So I fail to see how they got one-uped in any way.
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Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Nintendoe

Postby Quence » 19 Nov 2012 20:44

Why is everybody being so negative? I thought this was a really interesting article. It wasn't bashing Fusion, Prime, or Nintendo. Great read.
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby Garlador » 19 Nov 2012 21:00

I'm playing Metroid Prime Trilogy at this moment, shortly after beating Fusion on my 3DS...

... I'm not a fan of Fusion. I didn't hate it, but, good grief, that game keeps slapping me away from doing the fun stuff I want to do and instead keeps pushing me forward towards areas of the game I don't want to go to yet. It practically penalizes exploration and it has nothing but disdain for you if you dare try and venture off the beaten path.

... But the final straw for me was when I finally had all the power-ups I needed, confident that I could now fully explore all the world... only to discover that that stupid computer ADAM wasn't about to let me do something as silly as backtrack, explore, or fully prepare for the final battle. He wanted me to beat that final monster right then, right now, and I had no choice but to face the final enemy and finish the game, even though I did NOT want to beat the game. There was no choice; I had crossed that magic, invisible barrier and the whole game world had been shut off from me because ADAM said so.

But my love for the Metroid series is being rekindled by Prime 3 at the moment. That series DOES understand what Metroid's best strengths are; the sense of self-discovery, of steadily-increasing power, of puzzle-solving and world navigation. For the most part, it doesn't let the pure gameplay or immersive world-exploration get bogged down with intrusive cutscenes or invasive gameplay mechanics (no slow-walking or pixel hunts in THESE games!).

And the music? Oh the music... and that sterling art direction. And those tight controls. And those imaginative, adaptive bosses and enemy encounters. And Jennifer Hale's sweet heavy breaths in my ear...

Not that I wouldn't mind a new 3DS Metroid, but the Prime games latched onto the most rewarding and satisfying traits of the Metroid franchise and fanned them into overdrive. I adore the series for taking the elements of the originals and putting them into a modern gaming world, despite all the odds stacked against them.
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby Jerome » 19 Nov 2012 21:27

wisdomcouragepower wrote:Yeah it's not like Sakamoto created Samus so that he could do whatever he wanted or anything... oh wait!

Sakamoto was one multiple character designers working on Metroid, and he's been able to do what he wanted with the series because Nintendo gave him the opportunity to do so. He then used that opportunity to make a Metroid game that was released to mixed reviews, upset a lot of long-time fans, and had to be discounted heavily to sell a decent number of copies. Yes, he was given the ability to do this, but why get so defensive? Is it that you like the game and can't stand people disparaging it? Are you worried he won't be able to do what he wants next time if enough people complain?
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Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Nintendoe

Postby Hamr » 19 Nov 2012 23:03

@thorn-rock

Speak for yourself, homes.

The 'Metroid' name means different things to different people. For some of us, the essence of a Metroid game is defined more than anything else by depth, the sense of isolation and self-sufficiency, and the freedom to go off the beaten path and discover things at one's own pace.

And on those fronts, the first two Primes deliver. Getting to their conclusions requires total mastery of every interlocking facet the games deliver -- of Samus's arsenal and mechanics, of the puzzles presented by each room, and of the level design of the world map itself. Intrusive guidance, narrative or otherwise, is kept to a minimum. And the levels have endless venues for charting new courses through each playthrough.

As far as I am concerned, nailing those aspects takes far more precedence in defining a Metroid than superficial elements such as Samus's movement speed or the inexecrable sub-fanfiction-level garbage that passes for the series's plot these days.

If anything, Fusion is the game that plays like a watered-down spin-off. From the pathetically-easy enemy and boss encounters to the obnoxious scripted events to the game telling the player exactly where to go (not that it matters because because the game might as well be on-rails for all the choice players have in progressing through the levels) to the constant, terribly-written monologues. Everything about that game feels like it was trying to be [The] Baby's First Metroid.
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby Garlador » 20 Nov 2012 01:26

Hamr wrote:If anything, Fusion is the game that plays like a watered-down spin-off. From the pathetically-easy enemy and boss encounters to the obnoxious scripted events to the game telling the player exactly where to go (not that it matters because because the game might as well be on-rails for all the choice players have in progressing through the levels) to the constant, terribly-written monologues. Everything about that game feels like it was trying to be [The] Baby's First Metroid.


I don't like Fusion as much as other Metroids due to its invasive narrative, linear progression, and stunning lack of new weapons or abilities, but "easy" it was not. Fusion is notorious for some of the harder bosses in the game, and I'm sure more than few Metroid players get unpleasant flashbacks remembering bosses like Nightmare, SA-X, and Ridley-X.

It was plenty hard and challenging, spurred forth by an unforgiving linear narrative that often prevented you from backtracking so you could discover upgrades and properly equip yourself for future battles.

I do think a lot of people were more forgiving of the monologues. Playing recently, yeah, they're not great at all, but compared to Other M's narrative they're practically Oscar worthy (and even then, Fusion paints a far different picture of events than Other M did. Seriously, Fusion makes Adam sound like a pretty decent guy... until we finally got to meet him).
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby Hamr » 20 Nov 2012 02:11

Garlador wrote:I don't like Fusion as much as other Metroids due to its invasive narrative, linear progression, and stunning lack of new weapons or abilities, but "easy" it was not."


Yes, it was. I managed to get through it with minimal trouble and few deaths, and I am most certainly not an exceptionally-skilled gamer. In the second place, I have played the other Metroid games, those games offered much more challenge than anything I experienced in Fusion.

"Fusion is notorious for some of the harder bosses in the game"

Notorious among who? I cannot believe that anyone who could beat, say Mother Brain in NEStroid and then turn around and say, 'Nope, this Nightmare guy is just too hard for me'. Or beat Ridley in Super and then suddenly have trouble with the Ridley-X version of the fight.

"and I'm sure more than few Metroid players get unpleasant flashbacks remembering bosses like Nightmare, SA-X, and Ridley-X."

Yeah, no. The SA-X fight in particular is hilarious. The first form, you can just sit in a corner and when it jumps down, exploit the terrible AI to catch it in a loop where it gets shot, runs away, jumps down, and gets shot again. The second form dies in like, three hits, and going into the third form with full health means you do not even need to bother dodging the counter-attack thing it does whenever it is damaged.

"I do think a lot of people were more forgiving of the monologues. Playing recently, yeah, they're not great at all"

'Not great at all' strikes me as severe understatement.

But how will the beings of the universe view our resolve? I doubt they will understand what we did... the danger we barely averted. They will hold tribunals and investigations. They will hold us responsible. Adam understood this, and he spoke to me in my anger...

Do not worry. One of them will understand. One of them must.

I've reflected upon his words, and I see the wisdom in them. We are all bound by our experiences. They are the limits of our consciousness.

But in the end, the human soul will ever reach for the truth... This is what Adam taught me...

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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby thorn-rock » 20 Nov 2012 02:24

Hamr wrote:@thorn-rock

Speak for yourself, homes.

The 'Metroid' name means different things to different people.


Good reply. You're right I should have added "In my opinion" pretty much everywhere in my comment.

Still, I'm not denying that the Prime series was good at these particular areas of the game you mention as being the most important elements of the series for you. But as far as I'm concerned, a series is first and foremost defined by it's gameplay. And on that front the Prime series simply doesn't deliver the same kind of gameplay. I have difficulties to imagine that the Prime series could become the new classic Metroid and throw out the window any hope of getting a real 3D Metroid one day that would at least try to stay closer to how the older games actually play.

Because that's the most important thing about a game, right? How it plays.

Also about that other stuff you posted. Ok Fusion was not too hard, but the Prime games were fairly easy too. Especially the first one which is being discussed here. Easy. So the comment is not relevant.

And also, criticizing the monologues in Fusion, really? You know some stuff were not well translated at that time right? You know the criterias were not the same either. You know some very manga-comics line like these were more easily accepted at that time. There is no point in re-reviewing a game according to nowadays criteria. None at all.
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby Hamr » 20 Nov 2012 02:32

thorn-rock wrote:But as far as I'm concerned, a series is first and foremost defined by it's gameplay.


I agree. That is why most of the things I mentioned that the two Prime games have in common with Metroids 1-Super (that Fusion does not) were focused on the gameplay.
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby thorn-rock » 20 Nov 2012 02:50

Hamr wrote:
thorn-rock wrote:But as far as I'm concerned, a series is first and foremost defined by it's gameplay.


I agree. That is why most of the things I mentioned that the two Prime games have in common with Metroids 1-Super (that Fusion does not) were focused on the gameplay.


Ok let's get our facts straight. What I call gameplay is actually how the game plays, how you control the character. In the case of Metroid, it's a fast-paced arcade platformer with shooter elements. The sense of exploration, I say it's tied to the level-design and level of linearity. The feeling of self-sufficiency, I say it's linked to the atmosphere. I know all these elements are ultimately linked to what people feel when playing the game but I just wanted to explain why I seperated gameplay from the rest and what I meant by that.

What defines Metroid is indeed gameplay as well as exploration and atmosphere, but if I have to chose, I'd rather pick the gameplay elements. I feel more at home with Fusion which keeps the gameplay and atmosphere but somewhat forgets about the exploration part than with Prime which picks exploration and atmosphere but not gameplay.

But yeah, I totally get what you said and we just don't have the same priorities. Still waiting for a big 3D 3rd person Metroid that keeps the exploration feeling and adds old-school gameplay and even the best (and only?) real innovation that Retro added to the formula: lots of background elements with the ability to scan things.
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby austrian » 20 Nov 2012 03:51

pokemaster515 wrote:How could Retro Out-Nintendo Nintendo with Nintendo holding their hand when ever they make a game?


this a million times
90% of retros success is thanks to nintendo's amazing support and supervising
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Re: Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Ninte

Postby Devil_Rising » 20 Nov 2012 03:52

People arguing about this is rather absurd.

Both games were great, and it was an overdose of awesome to get them both right beside each other after so long without Metroid. It all depends on what you want out of a game. Fusion was a great 2D Metroid game, a great game period, more of a classic Metroid experience, albeit more linear. Prime was great too, in a different way, as Retro took what shouldn't have worked in 3D (and looking at Other M, honestly doesn't work in 3D otherwise), and made it work as a first person game that somehow still FELT, fundamentally, like Metroid. It's not the classic Metroid experience, and at the end of the day, that's what I prefer and want out the next game: a 2D, preferably sprite based Super Metroid style game. But that doesn't mean the Prime series (of which 3 was actually my favorite), wasn't amazing in it's own right.

When arguing over two great things, all you're doing is talking subjective opinions. So just agree to disagree.
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Metroid Prime Vs. Fusion: How a Team of Texans Out-Nintendoe

Postby Johnknight1 » 20 Nov 2012 04:44

Both of these games are in my top 10 first person shooter/adventure and third person action game/side-scroller single-player games of all-time. If you disagree with me, your opinion is wrong.

You got some of the best gaming tunes of all-time on both games (especially in Prime), some great atmospheres, awesome challenges, incredible speed runs, sweet weapons and gear, engaging enemies and bosses, interesting story (and the way the story is told), and fresh touches to what were (and still are) seemingly "tired" genres (side scrollers and FPS).

Also, the ending of both of these games gives me the chills. The music, the story, the vibe... it's perfect. Especially the way everything goes down in Fusion. When the results screen shows up for either game (again, especially Fusion), I get goosebumps; like I just fought through an epic war, and now I get the taste of peace after a sweet victory.

And dang it, if you don't like both games, you suck. That's a scientific fact!
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