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Cruel internet comments brought RiME creative director to tears

Coming from RiME creative director, Paul Rubio

Even so, If I had read Neogaf at the time the game probably wouldn't exist. I spent some time six months ago going through two-and-a-half years of comments on Neogaf, and I was literally crying for two days. Partly because I just don't understand the cruelty, but more importantly because I could see those years over those two days, and I began to understand that maybe people can love something so much that they can hate it.

I know the reaction to Mr. Rubio's statement is going to be full of snark and even meaner follow-ups. Being someone who has worked on the internet every single day for 13+ years, I can see why Mr. Rubio was impacted in such a way. It can be a dark, angry place.

Tags: eshop, switch

Comments

Top Rated Comment
bpm
Mon Apr 17 17 09:20pm
Rating: 10

1. NeoGAF is a crappy place, and has been for some time. It's no longer the great forum it used to be.
2. You should never get too upset over what some idiot(s) say on the internet. Everyone should understand that, due to the somewhat anonymous nature of the internet (even if you're using a username or a "real name"), people still use this as a means to be jerks. Just learn to laugh it off.
3. I'll be waiting for reviews and a price drop before I pick up Rime. Sorry, I just don't support this idea of higher prices for Switch ports.

Man, I know how the Internet can be. To put so much time into something only to see it completely trashed by random people before it's even released? Yeah, that's gotta sting a bit. Just give it your all and push through with your vision. Not everyone will like the final product, but if the ideas in it are good (even if they're not executed perfectly) I'm sure it'll find its niche or it may be absolutely amazing and gain tons of mainstream attention. Can't say seeing as I haven't played it. But I know you shouldn't give up over some random Internet trolls.

The comments can be pretty cruel, but like I said in January, and once again after the price raise, I will be buying Rime when it launches on the Nintendo Switch and I really think I'll be immersed in it if the developer diaries are anything to go by

This is why we can't have nice things

I don't understand why people treat those gaf people as if they're the messiah of video games.

entity
Tue Apr 18 17 08:12am
Rating: 1

Exactly. They are just a bunch of whiney brats. Princesses even. Don't give them the attention they are after, rather come here or to Dtoid where the community is awesome.

bpm
Mon Apr 17 17 09:20pm
Rating: 10

1. NeoGAF is a crappy place, and has been for some time. It's no longer the great forum it used to be.
2. You should never get too upset over what some idiot(s) say on the internet. Everyone should understand that, due to the somewhat anonymous nature of the internet (even if you're using a username or a "real name"), people still use this as a means to be jerks. Just learn to laugh it off.
3. I'll be waiting for reviews and a price drop before I pick up Rime. Sorry, I just don't support this idea of higher prices for Switch ports.

I agree with all of this.

Especially with point #1. As little as five years ago NeoGAF used to be really nice place to talk about games. Now it's a cancerous hell hole.

I am with you on this, on BPM as well.

Though to be honest, everything seems like an utter hellhole for any breed of discussion. Games, sports, hell even adult oriented conversations seems to drag out the dirtiest demons of so many now.

It would be fair to say that mankind has pretty much always been a tribalistic creature. It's always "us" versus "them". Whoever is "us" is "good", and whoever is "them" is "bad". This is, of course, a generalization, as I do not believe this applies to EVERYONE. However, it is certainly a common trait.

Now, whether discourse has always been this vitriolic or if this is a more recent development is hard to say. However, a big part of what I've been seeing develop lately are these "echo chambers". Essentially, just a group of people repeating and agreeing upon the same opinions. Should anyone DARE to go against this is immediately vilified.

By no means, am I placing the blame on this on any one "group", as I see this behavior repeated in different communities. Perhaps it is just human nature, and perhaps it's just bad socializing. I don't know, I'm not an expert on human behavior and such.

Lesson of the day, stay away from NeoGaf, where your reputation is based on how mean and hot takey you can be.

Mon Apr 17 17 09:27pm
(Updated 1 time)

I spent some time six months ago going through two-and-a-half years of comments on Neogaf, and I was literally crying for two days.

I spent some time six months ago going through two-and-a-half years of comments on Neogaf

going through two-and-a-half years of comments on Neogaf

comments on Neogaf

Neogaf

I think I found his problem.

Looks like the owner of NeoGAF is victim blaming him:

Wait, wait, hold on a sec, modbot. Can someone help out our friend?

General commentary:

-Should probably be talking about your two whole day cry with your therapist and not Edge Magazine. Also sounds like it would be pretty cathartic in any case. Did you emerge from your cocoon of tears a brave new boy new ready to face your first actual challenges in life? I bet you did! You're quite welcome.

-Criticism or accusation on a video game message board about a creative work triggering a traumatic psychological event from the creative director does not constitute contradictory evidence against the criticism or accusation. In other words, NeoGAF's not Bad Monster Who Is Wrong because of this guy's tears. That's an appeal to pity, not a rebuttal to anything he read.

-NeoGAF is actively moderated and we don't very much tolerate personal attacks, hate speech, and unsubstantiated claims. What we don't police, however, is someone not liking a thing you like or you liking a thing someone else doesn't like. If you keep it civil, don't drag a thread down around your own ego (unless you're me, *wink*, *thread unlock*), and back up your positions, and you're not just being inflammatory for the sake of it, then things are probably operating as intended. If you're uncomfortable with your favorite game or favorite developer-turned-god being criticized, go have yourself a good cry and head elsewhere.

-Despite someone having a breakdown here and there, or someone making a public exit some other time, or whatever a blowhard on Twitter says, the industry and the press follow NeoGAF pretty closely, and most industry folks are totally chill about the site. A lot of indies have expressed love and appreciation for the organic exposure they've gotten here that helped bring their projects to the spotlight on their own merit and thank me that NeoGAF exists and remains an independent entity where that can actually happen, and at the other end of the spectrum lots of AAA studios have taken notes on issues highlighted here and acknowledged and appreciated feedback, even very harsh feedback.

Most creatives figure out how to cope with criticism of their work and adjust accordingly. Some enjoy engaging directly on social platforms and can ignore any random trolls that might drive by, some watch from the sidelines to varying degrees, some ignore what the internet has to say entirely.

Someone compulsively chose to read the accumulated criticism of their thing in one go and cried afterwards. After serious and lengthy deliberation I have decided...not to shut down NeoGAF in response to this news. Thanks!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1361243&page=9

Love how this is considered victim blaming. Thing is we are all very well aware what NeoGAF is aware of. It's a den of wolves, and like anyone else, walking into a den of wolves will get you in some serious hurt. Reminds me of how 4chan assaulted tumblr after many went into 4chan (always a stupid idea if you're sane) and decided to insult them. Shit, I disagreed with the political landscape once and brought upon me the wrath of 300+ (I counted) death threats and ill wishes from people who took the "concern" of my opinion into a broader community. Yet these issues were my fault (in most respects it was, though it shouldn't been taken out of that realm), but another's similar actions didn't warrant their criticism. It baffles and awes me at the same time.

It's interesting how the internet communities work, though. Literally he had to read that stuff in a single day, and continued to do so after the first bit upset him, and then continued to do even beyond that. He had to power through quite a bit of shit before finally breaking down. You cannot say that was entirely the fault of NeoGAF.

hawk
Mon Apr 17 17 11:12pm
Rating: 1

NeoGAF is like a 4chan that believes it is the United Nations.

That just helps further my point. =P

No, it just demonstrates that you don't get that it is, indeed, victim blaming. Perhaps I can level some insults at you and claim you made me do it, and then you'll get it.

What part of NeoGAF is saying that RiME's team "made them do it?"

But by all means throw some insults at me if you wish for some kind of knee-jerk reaction and claim I brought it upon myself. Won't be the first time.

He does have a point that he didn't have to read it, or that much (some amount of criticism should be read so you can get an outside perspective and improve your game). However he didn't have to be a pompous a$$ about it. Then again, this is a person who owns a website where members will try to lynch people because they don't like them. It's also the place where people will get blocked for innocuous things... because someone else doesn't agree with it. So I guess I'm not surprised.

bpm
Tue Apr 18 17 12:08am
Rating: 1

NeoGAF is actively moderated and we don't very much tolerate personal attacks, hate speech, and unsubstantiated claims.

LaughingElfMan.jpg

And he unlocked the thread when the mod determined it had run its course and would serve no further purpose, leading to things being toxic. What a prick...

zsaberlink
Mon Apr 17 17 10:48pm
(Updated 1 time)

I don't personally care for EvilLore, since I've heard things about him that I dislike a lot. Honestly though, Neogaf is like any other place in the internet. People, with the ability to be anonymous, say horrible things about other people, their projects, etc. However, in reality they are really the vocal minority and most others are minding their own business. The mods get rid of the particular obnoxious ones, or anyone who does something pretty egregious.

The problem is that the rime director went in to read a very negative thread about his work and then felt terrible about it. The reaction is understandable, but I think he should realize that you really should NEVER go around searching forums to see things about your own content. The internet is a HORRIBLE place for that. It's like reading youtube comments. Even the happiest video can have horrible youtube comments that make you feel bad even if you aren't the specific target.

hamr
Tue Apr 18 17 12:15am
Rating: 1

if you're reading this paul, I'm sorry for all those times I called your game vaporware.

People are just cruel in general when it comes to the internet.

I mean just look how reviewers are bashing Yooka-Laylee....just...sad.

mortimer
Tue Apr 18 17 03:34am
Rating: 1 (Updated 1 time)

Yup, neogaf is a cesspool of extremist left wing religious zealots that ban, kick, tear everyone a new one that doesn't agree with their very specific and extremist views.

If you are capable of thinking for yourself, forming your own opinions, or are creative in any way, stay far FAR away from neogaf.

..or the ign forums/comments... or gamefaqs... or tumblr... or 4chan... You know what, it might be best to stay away from the internet in general if you don't want your creativity and spirit curb stomped right out of you. XD

I see far more hatred from right wing trump supporters everywhere, they're the masters of trolling, and usually the racist, sexist "jokers", the ones with "dark humor", the ones who think bullying is "free speech", the ones who are known for doxing, etc.

Uh oh. Let's not make this a political debate...

That's a shame.

NeoGAF puts out the news fast and sometimes has some interesting threads. I swear, half of the posters don't see to know how to use google though (when is the presentation? when does this release? etc). I also see a lot of cruelty there.

That being said, there are some cool posters there. I follow them on Twitter so can sort of ignore the NeoGAF threads if I want.

GoNintendo can also be "cruel" sometime, especially against TheBitBlock's videos with downvotes
I know he has exteme views, but the videos here has NOTHING TO DO with his views.
And I can see in the ratings which people do the downvotig so you can't hide

nurio
Tue Apr 18 17 08:32am
Rating: 1 (Updated 1 time)

Uh oh. The last time I said this, I got blocked by people who thought it was okay to disregard the video and personally hate on Josh. And someone else also got blocked by simply saying "Nurio is right"

So, yeah, I'm agreeing with you. GoNintendo can have equally cruel people who only want to hate on something and if you dare disagree with them, they'll first try to chew you out and then block you

But beware, make sure you don't point out the fact that we, on GoNintendo, did the same exact thing to him when he announced the pricing for the switch version of his game.

Yeah, I remember some cruel comments from GoNintendo when the price difference was announced. Though there were also plenty of level-headed responses, I think

To be fair, his deteriorating behavior has leaked into his live streams and discussions, so it's the high amount of effort he puts into the editing isn't really an excuse anymore... And for me personally, I dislike him because of how he pretty much blocks long-time fans without hesitation if they slightly disagree, how he tried getting people to bully a NOA PR rep for not giving him review copies, and because of how it's hypocritical to allow his videos on the site but not Pachter's, even though both of them have the same "good quality content, unpopular gaming opinions" and Pachter isn't even nearly as toxic as Josh (as the thing that got him banned was 1000x less worse than anything Josh has spewed on his twitter/streams for months now and he QUICKLY APOLOGIZED FOR IT.)

I don't want to go too much off topic, but people have a legitimate reason for being upset at the josh stuff, and this is coming from a guy that until last November was a pretty big defender of him since I AM for unpopular opinions if discussed respectfully, but seeing him get more and more toxic and follow hate groups (along with him cutting ties to GX for the stupidest reason ever) was the final straw.

I don't really have an issue with people having legitimate problems with Josh. But some people can be just as harsh and unreasonable in return, and that just doesn't seem right to me. It's especially strange when there is criticism on a video that doesn't seem to have anything to do with what's presented in said video

Yup. Every anonymous forum is a breeding ground for hate. Anonymity is the greatest and worst thing about the internet.

I've lurked on Gonintendo for many many years now and only recently joined the conversation. There is blind hate here too. Irrational and stupid. And unfortunately it appears to be growing, getting louder and making it harder to have a conversation or, god forbid, a difference of opinion or different likes/dislikes.

hamr
Tue Apr 18 17 01:28pm
Rating: 2

Downvoting a video is cruelty, now?

Tue Apr 18 17 03:50pm
(Updated 2 times)

Maybe should have said unfair or unpopular or hateful opions.
But I think that GoNintendo got upvotes and downvotes so we can choose what we like to see here like good or intresting reviews, not to hate the person for his views on other stuff.

For me so are hating a video reviews from TheBitBlock like hating the food from a good TV-Cook because he/she has "very bad" opions. Is have nothing to do with his/her work, but people may still hate them for what they said.

I maybe I has been "lucky" to not have good information about Why people hate TheBitBlock and therefore still Like the videos they makes

"But I think that GoNintendo got upvotes and downvotes so we can choose what we like to see here like good or intresting reviews, not to hate the person for his views on other stuff. "

Why are you assuming that all downvotes are for his views on 'other stuff'?

What if I just think he has incorrect views about videogames?

Tue Apr 18 17 04:53pm
(Updated 1 time)

then IT could be a good Idea to say that in the comment section!

When I read the comments in the (RMC news post)TheBitBlock post here, is only or mostly about how he is a "bad" person and not about the game content in the video and IF the review is "wrong", so I am totally not wrong!

"then IT could be a good Idea to say that in the comment section!"

So it is cruel to downvote a video, but it is fine to elaborate in lengthy detail on why a video is terrible?

Well IT more fair to Know why people hate you, than not Knowing why people hate you.
IT like a review where a 6 mean a "bad" game and many people just read the number instead of reading the review to Know why the game is "bad"

"I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It"

"Well IT more fair to Know why people hate you, than not Knowing why people hate you."

If he wants to know why people hate him, maybe he should stop blocking them. Razz

I've seen very few comments about his videos; most comments are about him as a person

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