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"As you probably know, the current situation of Wii cannot be defined as healthy. The price cut seems to have the least impact here than other parts of the world. It is our urgent mission to recover the momentum of Wii during the holidays utilising Nintendo's strength. The total Japanese market size is less than one sixth of that of the US, and about one fourth of the four major European countries. There exists major differences in market size today. When we compare the unit hardware sales, Japanese sales are about two-sevenths of the US, and more than half of the four major European countries. It can be said that Japan today is the challenging market for home console software to sell. Since the software we launched at the end of 2008 did not go on to sell for an extended period of time, and we were not able to launch very strong titles in the first half of this year, we have seen a significant drop in software sales this year. As a result Wii Software unit sales share is just below 50 percent of the entire home console software market so far in 2009." - Satoru Iwata
It looks like Iwata is dead-set on making the Wii rise up once again. I'm not exactly sure how that can be done, but I know Iwata will work his ass off to make it happen. From the sounds of it, most of that success will come from North America and Europe.
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Seriously, Nintendo's overall quality has been more varied this gen than any other for me. At least in the N64 and GameCube days, if the game was published by Nintendo, it was not one to disappoint. Yeah, there was a few stinkers, but the Wii has seen all too many from Nintendo.
Your grades hurt when you slack off in school. Applies to business a lot of the time as well. There's no "I" in team. You can't depend on a single player. Can't depend on a single game or two to push units either (especially in the Holiday shopping season).
I think Iwata is referring to the Japanese market.
Even with the horrible treatment Nintendo has given us in Europe for 2 decades [up till now, mostly], I've still given them the benefit of the doubt, them being the only game and console maker in the industry, but 2 or 3 'must haves' every year is getting abit old. Considering how big they are and how much money they've made in recent years.
And even if their translating teams still need a kick up the jacksy...
@ecco6t9
They should've done that from the release of WSR. The fact they haven't is worrisome for its future tbh.
A console is only as good as it's software.
Make more and better first party games, and make the system better (i.e. The online components)
PS3 and Xbox360 beat the Wii SOOOO bad when it comes to online.
The tools are already there, time to step up Nintendo.
This.
Casuals don't buy games every month. Core gamers do.
It will do nothing unless its enforced. There are some people here on the site that sometimes want WM+ to be optional.
If WM+ is to remedy Wii's shortcomings it MUST become the STANDARD.
That hasn't happened, the technology is available and they fall back on the safety zone for maximum profit.
I've yet to see an honest to good dev that catered exclusively to the Wii and brought out 100% out of the system's raw power and motion sensing technology.
The closest is RE4 Wii but it was a GC game so all the groundwork had been built.
Both casual and core gamers buy the same games: the games they have interest in and want to buy.
"Be more conservative. Release less games. People will magically start buying more."
Oh and:
"The Japanese market is only a fraction of the US's."
"That means we have to spend more resources on it and completely ignore America. And Europe too, while we're at it."
and wii beats ps3 and 360 togheter on sales soooo bad week on and week off
I think Nintendo should begin a Player's Choice line of games. We're three years in on the Wii and they haven't done it yet. Twilight Princess and WarioWare Smooth Moves are still $50.
How exactly are "core" games going to save the Wii, when expanded audience titles where the ones that skyrocketed its sales?
Please explain.
It's good to see Nintendo loosing the 'gigantic, evil corporation' image that they've inexplicable gained despite being in direct competition with Microsoft and Sony.
What's are the "four main European countries" from Nintendo's viewpoint? Does anybody know?
"How can that be done ? Release games, good quality core ones."
Wrong. The core market is slowly dying, releasing core games will do nothing to help momentum for any console. The only way to regain momentum is to fight disinterest with the expanded market (and hopefully bridge as many core gamers as possible). Releasing GameCube 2.0 games did nothing last year with Animal Crossing, what makes people think more will do a thing?
One thing to note: If the Wii is considered 'unhealthy', what would you consider the state the 360 and PS3 (which is still losing money) are in?
@Hami83
"Not relying on 1 or 2 games to sell systems for the entire year is a good start."
How about doing some research, and realize they released a lot of games during the first half of 2008? But that's asking too much for people here it seems
Other than Mario, Zelda and Pokemon, maybe Metroid, then yeah you're right.
Nintendo only fans are the whiniest of the 3 camps though [this site alone proves it], so it's not too surprising. At least the other two either embrace or take what they get...
When [and only when] gamers shake off this 'hardcore = AAA' and 'casual = the devil' crap will things get better, because then they'll accept a game [or not] because its a game, not simply because it has a shiny invisible label on it.
Because a good number of people bought the Wii for those games and buy games often. While the expanded buy seem to purchase a few games a year.
For example, me and 4 of my friends were all hardcore Nintendo fanboys(to the point of being ignorant) when we met on the now defunct NSider back in 2003 or so (miss that place). This last Christmas, we ALL got other consoles due to the Wii severely lacking in releases. The GameCube had a good release calendar almost every year and Nintendo was known for quality software. Now, it's honestly a mixed bag.
Why would you want the core market to die? That would make the industry even WORSE if it actually happened. Quality from EVERYONE would suffer. There can be balance. Competition is good for businesses.
I don't understand how you people can continue this notion that the expanded market doesn't buy games often, when the only games that constantly stay in the top 10 are expanded market and sports games. This should be even more evidence that the old core is out and the new core (expanded audience) is in.
@Hongo
I don't want it to die, I just acknowledge that it is dying, and there's little we can do to stop it. Sales figures continues to show that the core market is shrinking, and unless we get new gamers it will crashed like the comic book industry did in the late 80's/early 90's
This wouldn't be the first time it has died, and it will not be the last
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Part of his job is to talk. He is explaining the current state of Nintendo to his investor and shareholders. That is a major part if his job. It just happens to be one of the times of the year where Iwata is on the prowl, during interviews, and focusing on investor relations.
Fact is, expanded audience members buy more games than people like you, me and your friends. Sales numbers don't lie.
For those that mentioned Fire Emblem, there's a Fire Emblem on Wii, which sold less than 250,000 copies in the US (estimated).
How are games like that saving the Wii?
I wouldn't try and convince the kids otherwise dude. This Neo Nes-like era of new blood scares the beejesus out of them all.
Well, unless they're like the few of us who actually dabble in traditional and new games [for lack of a better term].
I'd akin it to MS and Apple fan[boys]; good luck converting either into the other!
Core gamers buy games obsessively and consistently.
Casual gamers buy the Wii, maybe Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort, and then eventually lose interest and abandon the Wii when it's no longer the hot item. they're no longer a source of income for Nintendo.
Nintendo has these options:
- Find new casual gamers and expend them as well.
- Regain the loyalty and income of the core gamers they've lost.
- Turn the current casual gamers into core gamers.
In the same vein, I don't understand how you can constantly insinuate that the core market is 'dying' when it's still doing quite well for itself. I usually agree with what you say, but this is one notion I will continue to reject, especially given that Nintendo's strategy is introducing more and more people to gaming in the first place.
With more support from 1st party on N64 and GC, Nintendo pleased everyone but today they are playing a very dangerous game (in a way they are very lucky because they've got something to play with!). Ignorance seems to be the key word on Wii! Ignoring the fans and 1st party games we've been claiming for years after years, what a great idear! Ignoring online (hello Nintendo, it's 2009 and even grand ma' is using internet!) pay and games (it seems WOW and Conter Strike just exist in my mind), ignoring new ip.
@Chosenoneknuckles
As a europeen, i totaly agree, but you must admit they're not the only one.
If the 'core' market is shrinking, you are part of the problem, because all I have seen you do is complain about EVERY third party game ever released. Have you bought Boy and his Blob? How about Muramasa? Little King's Story? Looking forward to Tatsunoko vs Capcom?
All you do is whine that 3rd party devs are not trying hard enough on the Wii, while similtaneously avoiding good to high-rated 3rd party titles that have been released for it. It is dying, and you are part of the problem.
EDIT: And to be honest I think this is a problem with most of the so-called 'core' userbase on the Wii (which is not that many people anyway, but I digress)
No, of course they aren't, cos then there's Namco. *Shakes fist*
But they're the best example. Most other Japanese game devs [like S-E] are no where near as bad, which is shameful.
#1 - the core market isn't dying, though I'm not going to claim it's in the same position it was in last generation.
#2 - you can't blame someone for the downfall of an industry when the industry isn't doing enough to make him interested in the product.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_be ... ideo_games
Now anser this... How many of those games are core and how many expanded?
Which of the two are still selling, far from their release date?
Seems the expanded audience IS buying games consistently. More than us "core gamers", anyway.
When you are including only Wii specific charts, that does not count for the whole industry. Out of the top 3, I would only count Wii Fit as an actual best seller. Wii Sports COMES with the Wii (in all territories except Japan), so that should not even count IMO. Wii Play was basically a controller bundled with a free game to me (and many others I'm sure) with only 1 worthwhile minigame (Tanks!).
How exactly is the industry not doing enough to make him interested in the product? I listed several games of different genres. There are obviously more.
My point is that anyone who constantly complains whenever 3rd parties do not bring their AAA game to the Wii but doesn't pick up any AA 3rd party titles because they are busy nitpicking them -- their reputation preceeds them.
Those figures don't show that the expanded audience is buying games 'consistently'. They simply show that lots of people who would fall within the expanded audience are buying these games.
Consider that this is a game system owned by over fifty million people, yet once you get past the top five games (two of which came with the Wii or a controller), the sales figures start matching up with the sales figures of systems that don't boast half the audience.
Consistency means buying games on a regular basis, and your figures don't prove to me that that's what the expanded audience does. They will when Nintendo gives them a reason to, but if they want consistent sales, they're gonna wanna give them more than three decent-or-better games that appeal to 'em (like Wii Fit, WSR, and NSMB Wii) every year.
...and B) some unique software that brings together the success of casual titles, with something more captivating for the hardcore crowd (easier said than done, but definitely possible and probable).
Well see, that's interesting and hard to pin down... The increased sales for perceived "casual" games could be because the casual audience is so much bigger than the core audience. 22.4 millions sales of Wii fit doesn't indicate that casuals buy games more consistently than core gamers. It doesn't give us any indication of repeat business.
To prove your point through game sales we would need to see a chart of game sales over time. And I'd like to see that too, because I could be wrong.
@Hongo
@Hawk
Prove me wrong, then. If you imply that core gamers buy more games than casual gamers, and that those are the games that Nintendo should be making, give me some evidence.
What you're telling me is anecdotal at best.
I consider myself a core gamer, but I can't pretend we are the ones who took Nintendo to the top again.
I say that because you're acting as though it's our job as the consumer to support products that took more effort than ones universally seen as 'bad' regardless of whether or not we actually hold an interest in the title.
If a developer wants to see sales, it's their job to ensure they see them through whatever means they can. You can't blame the console owners for not supporting games, because if they don't buy the games, it's more than likely because they weren't interested in the game, and that's either because it's just not for them, or because the developer or publisher didn't do enough to make people aware or interested in the game.
@8 bit
And what you're saying wasn't?
At any rate, it's tough to tell consistency based on sales figures alone, but when comparing the Wii with the 360 and the PS3 - both systems that don't match up to the Wii, userbase-wise, you still have either a very similar amount of million-and-above sellers (in the PS3's case) or a whole bunch more (in the 360's case) despite the fact that the userbase is smaller on both of these consoles. From that data I'm able to determine that the other two consoles (whose userbases are comprised primarily of members of the core audience) boast userbases that buy games on a more consistent basis.
Think about it. In order to have the same amount of million-and-up sellers on a console with half the userbase of the Wii, you'd have to spread those sales across a smaller audience - meaning that you've got people buying more games. If that weren't the case, those sales figures wouldn't be able to exist in the first place.
I'm not pretending we're the ones who took Nintendo back to the top.
We certainly aren't.
I'm not going to claim for a second that the expanded audience buys games on a more frequent basis than the core audience, though.
And don't lump me into a category I'm not a part of - I never claimed core games were what Nintendo would need to keep their momentum as strong as they want it to be. In fact, I claimed in my first response to you that it was more games like Wii Fit and NSMBWii that would keep Nintendo in a position of success.
loooool Yea Namco never even knew Paris was a town in Europe, they're still beliving the one and only is in the US!
During the 16 and 32 bits times, Sega of America's idea of never bringing the major rpg in America and Europe was brillant too! But the new record is Mother 3, who's ready to break it ? lol
@Burgers
Who cares about Muramasa when a new 2d Mario Bros is coming ? It has been realising too late. And who want to play a Boy and his Blob or Little King's Story in 2009 (i'm not saying they're bad)? Maybee Wii owners want games that take full advantage of the Wiimote? Wasn't lost Wind a sucess?
And exect Dragon Quest X, what major ip from 3rd parties are we waiting for ?
A list of sales is something.
But anyways... My original point is still that (in any case) expanded audience games, not "core" games, would get the Wii its momentum back.
Also, I'm speaking solely about the Wii here, considering this post is about Iwata's statement.
"But anyways... My original point is still that (in any case) expanded audience games, not "core" games, would get the Wii its momentum back."
I agree with that, as I said above.
"A list of sales is something. To me, this "expanded audience is weak" myth originated from PR talk meaning "we're angry we can't copy you, Nintendo"."
I also agree with that, for the most part. I wasn't purpoting some myth about the expanded audience being weak - after seeing how games like Mario Kart Wii and Wii Fit sold, I'd have to be a moron to think something like that. I was disputing the notion that they buy games as often as members of the core audience do, and in order to properly show that, I had to bring in consoles that have a sizable core audience - that would be the PS3 or 360. High sales for something like Wii Fit doesn't prove that members of the expanded audience buy games often - it just shows that more people who belong to that audience ended up buying the title. It would only work as a proper gauge of consistency if people went out and bought multiple copies of the game, and something tells me that's not the case.
A better way to look at how consistent a userbase is, is to look at their userbase and how many games reach or surpass a certain sales point. The Wii has more than two times the amount of owners the PS3 has, yet when you look at the top sellers across both systems, you see that just as many games on the PS3 broke a million sales and higher. Since you've got less people owning the system, it's pretty simple reasoning to assume that the people who do own the system are buying more games.
The core market is dying? What the f*** are you talking about? All of the top-selling games are on the "hardcore" systems. Yes Wii Fit and Wii Sports are top sellers too, but most of the top selling games are mainstream titles that appeal to traditional gamers.
Core gamers are the backbone of the gaming industry. Without them, the industry would not be as large as it is today.
Stop this backwards thinking that traditional gamers are bad now that these casual gamers are popping up.
Well, you're definitely right in one thing, which is that it certainly wasn't core gamers that brought Nintendo back to the top again. And your list is great evidence of that.
And I'm afraid I can only provide anecdotal evidence, which is no worse than what you've provided for your argument. (really that game sales list tells us NOTHING). The people I know who were non-gamers (my aunts, uncles, and grandma) bought a Wii when it was "popular" and no longer use it now. Yeah, I know that isn't a fancy chart, but I'll bet you see the occurrence happen over and over again if you were to ask more people.
Your original point isn't necessarily wrong... Casual gamers COULD be the key to giving back the Wii's momentum. They just need to be turned into consistent and frequent customers.
Like I said in my above post:
Traditional "core" gamers are the backbone of the industry. Do you really think the video game industry would be as large as it is today if all that was made was minigame collections and party games?
I love Nintendo, but this whole "casual gamers >>> real gamers" thing is just too ridiculous.
Nintendo needs to focus on both sides: core and casual. I know they have been doing that, but the casuals are satisfied now with their Wii Fits and Wii Sports Resorts.
Start focusing on more mainstream gamers like us. We are the ones that built this industry.
I do agree that core gamers are a more important part of the industry than Innervate would have us believe (and that the core market ain't 'dying' any time soon), but the gaming market as a whole benefited from the existence of the Wii. It certainly bolstered the industry and prevented it from stagnating.
@WiiLikeSportz
Weird, I didn't see anyone saying that (at least not here). EDIT - nevermind, I just saw it. I disagree with it too, in case you're wondering.
I did see people saying that members of the expanded audience don't buy games on as frequent a basis as core gamers, though, and I thought I made a pretty decent point regarding that standpoint in by big wall-o-text up there. You could even go as far as to call it 'evidence', I'd say.
Nintendo needs to reel in all types of gamers. They roped in the "non-gamers" already with Wii Sports and Wii Fit, so now they should be focusing on the rest of the gaming market.
Make games that gamers want to play. Console sales will pick up. More games will be sold. Less people will b**** about this casual gaming epidemic, and everyone will be happy.
Exactly. The Wii opened up gaming to new people, which is what this industry supposedly needed.
But now that that is done, it's time to focus on the rest of us, the gamers who have been supporting this industry since the beginning.
And Nintendo shouldn't take all the credit for expanding the gaming market.
Sony did it years ago with the PS1 and PS2, and they didn't need "casual gamers" to do it.
PS1: 102 million sold
PS2: 140+ million sold
I think they deserve some credit as well.
Seeing this from him is almost certainly a signal of a change in focus from those here-and-there buyers to the more focused gamers.
Lol, Malstrom... how wrong you were. And how right I was.
face it too many people already have it.
Also N's still making a huge mistake with no (offical) wii bundles if a SSBB or WSR bundle exzisted it would sell better then it is now (1-10% increase predicted)
"Core gamers buy games obsessively and consistently."
I don't disagree with this. But I feel core gamers are being used and abused by DLC, online fees and the removal of important features (such as LAN from Stracraft II).
"Casual gamers buy the Wii, maybe Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort, and then eventually lose interest and abandon the Wii when it's no longer the hot item. they're no longer a source of income for Nintendo."
Are you out of your mind? I mean, seriously, did you just wake up and decide one day that was the truth? Because that's what you want to believe?
Tell me Hawk, who bought 17 million copies of Mario Kart Wii? All of us core users? Even though we only bought just under 5 million copies of Double Dash?
Tell me, if those expanded audience members are no longer a source of revenue, then where did those Wii Fit Plus sales come from? It debuted at #1 in Japan. You'll see its strength in America too when NPD releases the October numbers.
Think before you speak.
"Nintendo has these options:
- Find new casual gamers and expend them as well."
When you try to make a conclusion based upon a false premise, that's called a fallacy. New gamers aren't expended. If they aren't interested in gaming after Wii Sports, Wii Fit, or Wii Sports Resort, it's not because they abandoned gaming. It's because gaming isn't doing enough to keep them interested.
"- Regain the loyalty and income of the core gamers they've lost."
And exactly how in the hell has Nintendo "lost" any of its core gamers? Where did those 8.5 million copies of Super Smash Bros. Brawl come from? That's 1.5 million more than melee sold.
Where did 8 million copies of Super Mario Galaxy come from?
Nothing pisses me off more than people who claim this bullshit story of abandonment. It's f*** pretentious horseshit.
"- Turn the current casual gamers into core gamers."
Your wording is wrong. It's called moving them upstream.
I hope this is true.
New Super Mario Bros. Wii is a game that is getting everyone excited, one of those titles that can win over anyone, regardless if they are casual or mainstream gamers.
That's a good start. Let's hope Super Mario Galaxy 2 can do just as well as the first one did.
And don't forget about your other IPs like Starfox, Pikmin, Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, etc.
#1 - they did need casual gamers to do it. They just weren't as vocal with their approach. To say that expanding the audience isn't what got the PS2 and (to a slightly lesser extent) the PS1 their monstrous sales figures would be ridiculous.
#2 - These consoles existed during completely different market conditions. Now that gaming is being accepted as more of a mainstream way to enjoy oneself, people new to the industry may not have been able to jump in as easily if a system like the Wii wasn't there for them.
I think Nintendo should focus on everyone with their console, but it's not something they need to do if they want to keep their position on the top spot.
For the most part, they don't fall for the same gimmick twice (Wii Sports Resort maybe being an exception, but even that had to introduce a new peripheral). At some point, you are likely going to run out of interesting gimmicks that mainstream cares about (at least temporarily, like now) and if your business model is 90% based on those gimmicks and that audience, it is at that point that you are pretty much f###ed. Also, it seems Nintendo has alienated itself further from the "hardcore" gamer by reducing the flow of regular games and dumbing down the content, so it will be interesting to see how that will affect them in the long run if/when the casuals get bored with games. I believe we have probably reached the peak already and it will be downhill from here, unless Nintendo has something Megaton-sized up it's sleeves..
So all those old people who bought the system just for Wii Sports and Wii Fit are suddenly going to become mainstream gamers? Give me a break, those types of people view gaming as a leisurely activity, not an entertainment hobby like the rest of the industry.
You can't rely on the casual market forever. Sooner or later they will lose interest. It's happened before, and it will happen again.
chill dawg
I do agree with everything you said there (which is a rare occurrence indeed)... I just wish you conveyed it in a way that was less in yo face
If you're frustrated with someone's post, I've found a good way to deal with it is to troll a little, you know, get sarcastic in your post without allowing it to take from the message you're trying to convey.
I don't wanna sound like I'm preaching so I'll just stop.
Oh, I totally agree with that, and it was my original point. Make games for core gamers and you'll attract the people who are ready to buy game after game. They won't leave the minute the Wii is no longer popular.
This.
The Wii isn't a fad, that's been proven, but to a lot of people (like you said) it is. The people who have to have the "in" thing for a month then move on to something new the next month.
I think you misread what I said. Nintendo wasn't the first to expand the market. Sony did it with the PS1 and PS2.
New gamers are brought in every day, regardless of if they are casual or hardcore. They just need to find the right product that gets them into gaming.
Plenty of new gamers were born during the PS1 and PS2 eras. No casual gimmicks were necessary.
Then Nintendo decides to open the market even further, away from the adolescent 10-30 age group. They make a system that caters to all age types and skill levels. Wii Sports is a huge success. They follow it up with games like Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort, bringing even more people into the fold. Now that their mission is done, what next?
PS2 was lunch with Fantavision. Never forget it!
And of course they needed the casual gamers to expand; There are more Singtars on ps2 than Gran Tourismo and there's a cheerleader game too!
I know I'm nitpicking here, but...
"Nintendo wasn't the first to expand the market."
how much you wanna bet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_e ... ent_system
I see your point, though.
Finally someone agrees with me.
I think what many people don't understand is that without the mainstream core gamer, this industry would be dead.
We turned this industry from a casual fad into a multi-billion dollar industry.
Nintendo did good to get more diverse players into gaming, but now where do they go now?
How do they turn these casual gamers into mainstream gamers? Wii Fit Plus won't do it, neither will any of these other exercise games or party games.
All developers, not just Nintendo, need to move beyond this niche genre and produce something that ALL gamers will like.
PS2 did fine in the US without the Singstar franchise. It was huge in Europe, but we didn't get it until late in the console's life.
Aside from that, they need new ideas, preferably from Miyamoto. I don't have many, but luckily Nintendo isn't depending on me to come up with them.
The vitality sensor probably needs to come out with Eternal Darkness or something to cement its position as a worthwhile peripheral for more than just fitness. It would also offer a unique experience that horror fans would love, and after Paranormal Activity, we know they exist and would be interested if the game was marketed well. Personally, I hate horror games, but it's something Nintendo needs to work on.
Ah, but Sony was the first to reach beyond what Nintendo had done at the time and turn gaming into a truly mainstream industry. They were one of first console manufacturers to cater to the older audience instead of kids.
Everyone is afraid that the success of Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. will turn gaming into a casual hobby again. Nintendo just created those games to cater to a large demographic than kids and adolescents. And it worked beautifully.
I applaud Nintendo for their success. Now they need to find a way to turn those casual gamers into mainstream customers. Create something that appeals to all gamers.
"All developers, not just Nintendo, need to move beyond this niche genre and produce something that ALL gamers will like."
Many here would argue that that's what Nintendo has already been doing. Did you mean 'on a more regular basis'?
@tendoboy1984
"Everyone is afraid that the success of Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. will turn gaming into a casual hobby again."
See, that's an unfounded fear, but I'm sure you know that.
otherwise, I agree with what you said.
It's all nice and well for hardware I guess, but not every Wii gamer is going to buy every game at some point just because he already owns the ones he really wanted and there is nothing else out right now. Sure as hell not for anything but bargain price.
Never heard of Game Boy and Tetris?
@tendoboy1984
I didn't know it wasn't that hudged in the US. But here it's something and an important key for the success of PS3.
To your first comment:
Yes Nintendo has been creating more of their traditional games. They did an excellent job catering to both markets in the first 2 years. Games like Wii Sports and Wii Fit satisfied the causal crowd, while mainstream gamers were treated to Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3.
It was last year when Nintendo hit a wall. They seemed to have lost momentum, and instead of consistantly releasing quality titles that everone would enjoy, they come out with Wii Fit, which led to a dozen competitors and the whole "exercise game" genre. And then there was Animal Crossing: City Folk (a shoddy port of the DS game!) and Wii Music, which had to compete with the huge success of Guitar Hero and Rock Band.
Luckily, they rebounded this year with Wii Sports Resort and New Super Mario Bros. Wii, but 2 big titles in one year isn't enough. Nintendo needs to get that spark back they had in 2006 and 2007 and create more games on a more consistent basis.
And get rid of all the shovelware developers! How many "Girlz Sleepover Party", "Jillian Michaels Fitness", and "Chicken Shoot" games do we need?!
I really think Nintendo should encourage more companies to simultaneously develop their big games on the Wii along with the HD console versions. No more lousy ports. No more PS2 ports. No more laziness.
And enough with the useless plastic accessories. Wii Zapper, Wii Sports packs, Wii Wheel clones. We don't need any of them. The official Wii Wheel is perfect, why do third-party companies need to make a billion crappy clones of one plastic wheel?
And to your second comment:
I do know it is an unfounded fear, mainly perpetuated by the gaming media and hardcore gamers who think Nintendo is killing gaming.
Nintendo isn't killing gaming, they are simply bringing new types of people into the mix. And now Microsoft is blatantly copying them, after they originally scoffed at Nintendo's attempts to lure casual gamers. Ironic isn't it?
Buzz! and SingStar (I like both series) both seem to be big franchises in Europe. Sadly in the US, they do pretty average.
Europe gets a crap load of new songs to the SingStore. The US gets them once every month or so, and usually it's music no one has heard of or really cares about.
Yes we got Singstar and Buzz very late in the PS2's life. It was popular for a while, but then momentum quickly shifted to the HD systems.
It seems Sony captured the casual market before Wii even came out! Singstar and Buzz were popular in Europe long before the Wii was out.
Think about it $180 for 3 more remote sets then $80 for 4 motion pluses then $90 for a balance board granted none of this is forced but these are things everyone buys.
$199 just seems costly when a PS3 is only $100 more and is 50% less then when it first came out.
Ummm, they have?
What Nintendo needs through is better quality control (read: rein in the flood of third party too-cheap-thrill casual games)
PS3 is only $100 more now, but the various Xbox 360 models have been around $300 for years.
And the Xbox 360 Arcade is the same price as the Wii and offers better graphics and more "core" games. But no one likes it cause it doesn't come with a hard drive.
What Mario's not big enough to hang around the likes of Kratos, Master Chief, Ratchet and Clank, Marcus Fenix, Snake, etc?
If I'm not mistaken Mario was one of the first characters to have a huge impact on the industry, after Pac-Man. He single-handedly brought gaming out of the gutter it was in after the crash of 1983.
Not to mention the PS3's HDD can be upgraded way cheaper than the 360's (since it uses 2.5 inch SATA HDD's).
I would get a PS3, but I don't have an HDTV, and you need an HDTV to watch Bu-ray. It's pointless to get a PS3 or an Xbox 360 if you aren't going to use it's full HD potential.
I had an Xbox 360 and sold it cause I didn't have access to Xbox Live, and I don't have an HDTV. So therefore it was pointless for me to have a 360.
@tendoboy1984
I know about next year, but what comes after that?
Next year all will be well.
Super Mario Galaxy 2, Zelda Wii, Metroid Other M... who knows what else will come?
Possibly New Play Control: Super Mario Sunshine, New Play Control: Pikmin 2, and New Play Control: The Wind Waker...
It'll be like the Wii's first 2 years all over again!
Huh?
If anything, I think he's supporting his main recent theories: that games like AC:CF and Wii Music made the Wii lose momentum, and that only a game with better content will help them regain it.
IMO, of course.
You don't need an HDTV to watch Blu-ray. I had my PS3 hooked up to an SD TV for months before getting a new HDTV. The PS3 can use the regular composite cables to play games AND watch Blu-ray. And Blu-ray players play DVD's. HD is the point of Blu-ray as a format, but you can still watch them on a standard def TV with no problem. Just like DVD's.
But Blu-ray is useless without HDTV. If you don't have an HDTV, you may as well stick to normal DVD.
That, my friend, is a mystery.
No one knows what's coming out in 2011. Hell, no one knows what types of games will be revealed at next year's E3.
Nintendo shocked everyone when they announced the Team Ninja collaboration, Metroid Other M. And no one expected a direct sequel to Super Mario Galaxy.
Golden Sun DS came out of nowhere, but sadly no one is talking about it now.
This, I agree with.
That's true. In all honesty, I only buy CG animated movies (like Wall-E) or movies that use a lot of CG effects (like the Pirates trilogy) on Blu-ray, because they truly look fantastic. I still buy most movies on DVD, unless they have a combo pack where you get both the DVD and Blu-ray version for a few bucks more.
So until I can afford an HDTV, I don't need an Xbox 360 or PS3. Cause the games aren't at their full potential in SD.
PS2 and Wii are fine for me right now.
No, that's not what I said.
Also, "expanded audience" does not mean "old people," which you are trying to confine/define it as. But yes, some gamers will move to more difficult titles after entering the market with Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc. Others will simply stay within those types of games buy the sequels and whatnot.
"You can't rely on the casual market forever. Sooner or later they will lose interest. It's happened before, and it will happen again."
There's nothing "casual" here except your logic. Even before the Wii was launched Nintendo was achieving runaway success with Brain Age and Nintendogs. And before that the PC market was achieving huge success with so-called "casual" flash games.
The expanded audience didn't leave console gaming - it left them. Games transitioned to 3D and became more about complexity and cinematics and less about arcade-style game play.
"I just wish you conveyed it in a way that was less in yo face"
Well, I like to get to the point. Writing doesn't convey tone very well, so if you think I'm somehow angry, that's just you inferring whatever you want to infer.
"Nintendo wasn't the first to expand the market. Sony did it with the PS1 and PS2."
Wrong.
The Atari 2600, the NES and Wii expanded the market. The PlayStation brand did not:
"So what about the Playstation? Didn’t it steamroll over all its competition? The answer is no. The reason why the Playstation dominated the market was not due to competition but due to growth. The Playstation was the first game console to dominate all three major markets. The Playstation was the first global console. The NES was not global. The Atari 2600 was confined mostly to a single territory.
"When you break the Playstation and Playstation 2 sales down by region, you find no difference than previous generations’ sales when accounted for population growth. This is why the household console penetration rate the NES achieved was 33% which is the same number of video game consoles today. The Playstation ‘grew’ the market not by making games ‘more mainstream’ as before (as is commonly thought) but by being truly global. Even now, Sony keeps trying to push where the Playstation can grow such as in nations like Russia. This global nature accounts for massive sales of the Playstation. It would be a mistake to misread those numbers as “making gaming mainstream” or “beating the competition for marketshare”."
- http://thewiikly.zogdog.com/article.php ... 6&ed=7&p=4
Well, not entirely, but I see where you're coming from. I concur.
I thought everyone did....
But by being the first global console, PlayStation did make gaming more widespread and mainstream.
Atari? f*** that, they are the ones who caused the crash in 1983. Nintendo is the one who revived the industry with the NES and made it mainstream, then Sony took that idea and made gaming more popular worldwide.
Ever since PlayStation gaming has gotten bigger and more popular. Sony was arguably the first company to truly reach out beyond the kids and PC nerds. Nintendo mainly catered to kids, while Sega mainly catered to teens.
And Microsoft brought online console gaming to the masses. Xbox Live is incredibly popular, and now Sony is playing catch-up.
Now everything is overlapping. Gaming is big with kids, adults, and everyone in between. Yes, the Wii is part of this success, but the industry didn't need it.
And now that the motion control trend is big, Microsoft and Sony want to seize a piece of that market as well. Natal is Microsoft's attempt at grabbing the casual Wii gamers, while Sony's motion controller is a direct copy of the Wii Remote.
Nintendo created a boom with motion control gaming, and now it seems their competitors are trying to capitalize off that success.
But back to my original point. Every company has expanded the industry in some way. You can't place all the credit on just Nintendo, or Sony, or Microsoft, or Sega. They all had a hand in making gaming what it is today.
Dude, he is just a troll. He's the type who thinks Nintendo sh!ts rainbows and everyone else in the industry does nothing but sh!t crap. The PlayStation brand is an essential key to the industry and I doubt it will be going away anytime soon.
"The core market is dying? What the f*** are you talking about?"
I'm talking about the core market is dying out. Sales figures prove this, dev studios closing down prove this, install base proves this. It's not left for speculation anymore, it's rearing its ugly head and only the blind can't see the decline.
"All of the top-selling games are on the "hardcore" systems."
Last I checked, the Wii isn't a "hardcore" system.
"Yes Wii Fit and Wii Sports are top sellers too, but most of the top selling games are mainstream titles that appeal to traditional gamers."
Is that why they struggle to sell a few million at best, save for exceptions like Halo and GTA? It seems like if it isn't an EA Sports yearly rehash, it's a Nintendo game tearing up the charts
"Core gamers are the backbone of the gaming industry. Without them, the industry would not be as large as it is today."
You can't be this stupid, can you? I don't know how to respond to such asininity.
Tell me, who made the NES a success? Was it the core gamers at that time, or was it new gamers that the NES brought in? How about the people who were initially attracted to arcades, back before there was a gaming market? Reflect on this some.
"Stop this backwards thinking that traditional gamers are bad now that these casual gamers are popping up. "
The fact you keep referring to the expanded audience as retards just proves you know very little. 'Casual' is just nonsensical garbage the Industry invented to label the expanded audience.
"Is that why they struggle to sell a few million at best, save for exceptions like Halo and GTA? It seems like if it isn't an EA Sports yearly rehash, it's a Nintendo game tearing up the charts"
Wow your generalizations are way off. Every month you see the same Nintendo games: Wii Play, Wii Fit, New Super Mario Bros., Mario Kart DS, etc. in the top spots
While the HD consoles sell a variety of software more frequently and are usually listed higher in the top sales charts.
Every company has expanded the industry in some way. You can't place all the credit on just Nintendo, or Sony, or Microsoft, or Sega. They all had a hand in making gaming what it is today.
So the next time you try to associate all "casuals" with being elderly people, please stop and think for a moment.
You'll find out next year, like everyone else.
Do gamers like you have no patience anymore? Is the here and now oh so terrible [on the general gaming front]?
@RogersBase
Oh please. Folk would love it one minute, then they'd start complaining about the graphics, art direction, default WM+ controls, lack of HD resolutions etc. until its release...
Much as I'd love to see it out for this generation as much as any of you, it'd be nice to bypass that whinefest.
Like I said above:
Every company has expanded the industry in some way. You can't place all the credit on just Nintendo, or Sony, or Microsoft, or Sega. They all had a hand in making gaming what it is today.
I take it reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Again, when "hardcore" games do make it into the Top 10, they quickly fall off while you still see Wii and DS expanded audience games still hitting in years after release.
And if you try to pull the irrelevant attach ratio card, the Wii's is still bigger than the PS3's.
@tendoboy1984
Hardly. Sony and Microsoft have done little to help the industry, it was the 3rd parties that done the work. In fact, bringing PC values into console gaming and blurring the line between the two did more harm than any good.
@tendoboy1984
And like I said just now, besides Sega, none of those companies did diddly squat
Anyway, it's apparent that this discussion is going nowhere, so I'm done. If you don't want to listen to reason, that's your loss.
Dude, why are you so touchy about the Wii or anyone having an opinion? You take offense to people having problems with it more so than a racial minority or something.
Nintendo IS NOT the only company to bring new things to the table. Yeah, they usually start it (someone has to), which other companies expand upon, and sometimes improve on. Like any business.
It's like saying Chevy copies Ford. Or Toyota copies Honda. Piss on these "copiers" because none of them have brought nothing new to the market, only one can. (Which we know that all of the said companies have done something different or expanded on something).
@tendoboy1984
This.
Everyone has contributed and helped the industry grow in different ways. The industry it's self branches, but Nintendo, Sega, Sony, Microsoft, etc. make up the trunk that keeps it all together. Some people on here don't get that competition is good for all business. An industry ruled by ONLY Nintendo or Sony or Microsoft would suck more than likely.
No it didn't on the second point.
Yes, if your console is worldwide, it is technically more widespread.
No, PlayStation did not make gaming more mainstream. You are not more mainstream simply because you penetrated a market that was underserved before.
"Atari? f*** that, they are the ones who caused the crash in 1983."
The fact that Atari crashed the market does not change the fact that the 2600 grew the market in the first place. No one ever said you can't kill the market after you grow it.
"Nintendo is the one who revived the industry with the NES and made it mainstream, then Sony took that idea and made gaming more popular worldwide."
No, again, Sony did not make gaming more popular. It never surpassed what the NES did in the same territories. All it did was introduce gaming to areas that were underserved. Nintendo could not successfully expand the NES in Europe because Atari had them tied up court so badly. It's a fact. Go read "Game Over" by David Sheff.
"Ever since PlayStation gaming has gotten bigger and more popular."
No it has not. You don't have a single piece of evidence to demonstrate this. Failing to surpass a previous household penetration rate is not making gaming "more popular."
"Sony was arguably the first company to truly reach out beyond the kids and PC nerds."
No it wasn't. That was simply what the marketing departments wanted you to believe. The NES and SNES were not limited to everyone under 18. Adults had consoles too.
"Every company has expanded the industry in some way."
No they haven't. Repeating this over and over again does not prove anything. It simply makes your argument weaker.
Innovation is one thing - but expanding is an entirely different matter. And I didn't say expansion was limited to Nintendo. Atari did it as well.
"Sales figures prove this, dev studios closing down prove this, install base proves this."
I'm not even gonna touch this.
@DoubleDragon
Is that really as far as you're willing to let it go? "Atari did it as well"?
The Playstation may not have brought gaming into the mainstream like the Wii has, but what it did do as a console was, well, make the industry a whole lot bigger than before. If it weren't for the Playstation 1 and Playstation 2, I don't think gaming would have become the massive industry it became last generation. Of course, I'd say the same for many of Nintendo's consoles - but I'm not just gonna limit credit to Nintendo.
Perhaps that's not 'expansion' in the traditional sense, but you'd think making the industry larger would enable more potential for expansion than before.
I'm sorry, what else do you want me to say? I'm giving them credit for what they did. Do you want a treatise on Atari? Because I don't feel like researching and typing something like that out.
"The Playstation may not have brought gaming into the mainstream like the Wii has, but what it did do as a console was, well, make the industry a whole lot bigger than before."
I don't see any proof for this, but I'm not going to disagree with it because I don't know what sort of industry growth (as in companies - not console sales) occurred simply because of the PlayStation. A lot of the successful companies on the PS1 were in existence long before that console: Square, Capcom, Konami, etc.
If the PlayStation had never been produced, then companies would have simply published games on another console (such as the N64 or the Saturn) and gamers would have either picked up one of those consoles instead or left gaming altogether.
It's no different than Final Fantasy moving from Nintendo to Sony, or Resident Evil moving from Sony, to Nintendo, to everyone (sort of).
The industry doesn't have to be larger to expand gaming. It didn't take massive development teams to make Super Mario Bros. 3, yet that is one of the most successful games ever released.
The problem is that people are trying to equate expansion with innovation. The two are not the same thing.
Coming up with a fully 3D game and releasing an analog control stick may be innovate, but it is not necessarily expansive.
That is exactly my point. Sony made the industry larger in terms of how widespread it became, and how many new gamers came into the fold.
And making your system available to a wider global audience is exactly what the definition of expansion is. This is what Sony did with the PS1 and PS2. I did not mean how innovative your controls or graphics are, I was talking in terms of global presence and sales.
The NES dominated in the US and Japan, while the Sega Master System was huge in most of Europe. The NES wasn't as popular in Europe because the Master System dominated that region. In the U.S., hardly anyone knew what the Master System was.
It's the exact same thing with Xbox 360 being huge in the US and Europe, while being practically dead in Japan.
The PlayStation was arguably the first true globally successful console. A system that was hugely popular in all the main markets.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Look at what happened when the big titles came out (I forget the exact year). What happened to the year after that one? Hardly anything. A cycle like this could potentially happen again. It's not because of lack of patience, I just made an observation of something that occurred already. Way to jump in conclusions, like always.
Kirby
Kid Icarus
Starfox
Pikmin
Golden Sun
F-Zero
etc.
Sorry, but this is the result of them putting all of their proverbial eggs into one basket.
With the still damaged economy, those who freshly jumped in can and will just as easily jump out as it's merely a time passer for them, and not a dedicated hobby as for the long-time gamers.
Nintendo had a nice ride with the NES and SNES and blew it with the N64 due to being so stubborn about changing media format. They struggled with Gamecube, and when they get back on top with Wii, they just shoot themselves in the foot again.
This time the "Oh well, I have all their great franchises on the system" sentiment doesn't work here, as they've barely scraped their character catalog this time out, which is what the long-time gamers want.
It's weird to think that Nintendo has gone from "It's for babies and little kids" to "It's for soccer moms and the elderly" during the last few years. They need to try and get that middle ground now.
"The industry doesn't have to be larger to expand gaming."
Yes, yes it does. Gaming would still be considered a small niche hobby if Sony and Nintendo hadn't changed things up and mass-marketed their systems to a larger audience.
And even Microsoft deserves credit for making online console gaming so popular in this generation. Granted, they started with the original Xbox in 2002, and Sega tried it out with the Dreamcast, but online console gaming really hit big when the Xbox 360 came out.
@thedreadpirateguy
This, especially that last sentence.
Xbox 360 may not be much of a threat, now that sales are slipping, but Natal could (probably not) lure in those gamers that Nintendo has so successfully captured.
Even the PS3 is posing a big threat, not necessarily to Nintendo, but to Microsoft. The PS3 is catching up very quickly now that both HD systems are at the same price point.
Anyway, Iwata's got his work cut out for him considering the console market as a whole is in shambles in Japan. And to think people scoffed back in 2005 when he was said the industry was going downhill.
Make games like Wii Sports Resort and Super Mario Galaxy, not like Wii Music and Animal Crossing: City Folk. No need to listen the fallacious rambling of an industry culture making love to the "casual/hardcore" dichotomy. Just make good games that resonate with people (not demographics, as the analysts beckon), and release them regularly.
The best thing for Nintendo right now would be if they could somehow pull the equivalent of Pokemon Red & Blue out of their ass, but a phenomenon like that is unlikely to occur again, even on a Nintendo platform.
EDIT: Okay I will respond to one thing.
@tendoboy1984
Microsoft did help popularize online gaming...but that was on the PC, not the 360. The Xbox Live is just an extension of PC online gaming, with a PC-like console in place of the dying PC gaming market.
They already pulled a "Pokemon" with Wii Sports and its sequel.
And very good point about making games that appeal to ALL gamers instead of certain demographics (kiddy/mature/casual).
Heh, I should've thought of that.
Xbox Live may be an extension of PC online gaming, but it is still console-based.
Console online gaming didn't exist before Xbox Live (and to a lesser extent, SegaNet on the Dreamcast).
Nintendo has pretty much reached EVERYONE at this point, and now they have almost no one left at this point to sell to. And getting where they got, they shoved the long-time fans in the back to woo the new folk.
Now they need the people who buy pretty much everything they do versus just the half-dozen selections from the "Wii series", and I think the old crowd has been fading fast, and dying out.
The core market isn't dying. It's just dying on the Wii, save for a few developers who still try to buck the typecasting, and the gamers who want actually want games for their game system, not casual lifestyle tech demos and controller promotions.
Someone said it earlier: The Wii isn't a fad, but it's not the "in hot item" that it used to be. And the new folk have moved on or are happy with what they have and don't need anything extra. Unlike us, they aren't dewy-eyed with Nintendo nostalgia. It could have been any product for them as far as they are concerned.
Nicely put!
I think the Wii needed to become more like the DS. There's a game for everyone in that console's library, and a lot of GOOD games with great content.
The Wii juggernaut stopped (freezed, almost) with that dreaded Holiday of 2008. Hopefully Nintendo learned a lesson...
Most "casual" gamers don't care how precise the motion controls are, as long as they can do similar things (swing a bat, tennis racket, golf club, Frisbee, etc.).
Wii Motion Plus was invented to make the Wii Remote more responsive, but I agree that it should have been built-in from the start. The problem now is: does Nintendo keep it as a separate accessory, or build it into the Wii Remote?
I think what they are doing now with the black Wii Remotes (bundling it pre-attached) is a good way to get the Motion Plus into more homes, but eventually they may decide to build it into future versions of the Wii Remote.
@thedreadpirateguy
This this this this this this!
@8 bit
Considering we are getting New Super Mario Bros. this holiday instead of Wii Music/Animal Crossing shows that Nintendo has learned it's lesson.
Iwata has commented on the Wii Music fiasco, saying that he feels sorry that it wasn't accepted as well as he had hoped.
This. Well said.
It's not the definition of making games more mainstream. It's simply hitting areas that weren't hit before.
"Yes, yes it does. Gaming would still be considered a small niche hobby if Sony and Nintendo hadn't changed things up and mass-marketed their systems to a larger audience."
You just don't get it do you? The systems did not reach a larger audience. They simply hit other countries.
"The NES wasn't as popular in Europe because the Master System dominated that region."
No, Nintendo was prevented from making a serious push into Europe because it was tied up in litigation by Atari. I have told you this before. You can't simply make up any facts you want and expect them to be true.
Yup, and next year we will have plenty of them:
- Metroid Other M
- Super Mario Galaxy 2
- Zelda Wii (?)
- maybe some more New Play Control titles (Super Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker?!)
New Super Mario Bros. Wii is going to sell very well this holiday, if the first one is any indication. I expect it to sell well into next year. It may even be a top seller 3 years from now, the way New Super Mario Bros. DS is.
Other countries means more people have access to them, meaning market expansion!
If I released a game system in my town of 2000 people, then a few years later released a system into more towns, that would mean more people would get to play my system. More people who get access to my system = market expansion.
This is what Sony did with the PS1 and PS2. They expanded the consumer market because a wider group of people bought their systems. This is the same thing Nintendo has done with the Wii.
The more customers you have, the bigger your business can become. More customers = more profit.
If japan gets most of the exclusive Wii titles, games that appeal to every type of gamer and even games that are not allowed on the US and European market, what else can Nintendo do to spur interest in their game?
Yes Nintendo was in litigation with Atari, and this allowed the Sega Master System to gain a huge foothold in the European market.
This. And then gaming becomes more mainstream.
Golly, DD doesn't like Sony that much does he? [Not that I do either now, having invested in a PS1 & 2, but I can't deny they didn't help the industry grow in their own way, for the good and worse.]
You don't like Sony?
I had a PS1 that I loved, then it broke. I bought a PSOne (slim) and that broke too.
I may buy a PS2 cause it is so cheap now, and there are tons of games I want for it. But considering Sony's shoddy hardware record, is it worth it?
Is the PS3 better quality than the PS1 and PS2? Is the PSP better quality?
NSMBW
Pokepark Wii
and that Quiz game.
I can't wait until next Year Galaxy 2 is a day one buy for me.
Edit: I see everyone making lists of what nintendo should bring but I don't ever see anyone put DK on there list.
Now you're fleeing from your original position.
You said: "But by being the first global console, PlayStation did make gaming more widespread and mainstream."
Sony did not make gaming more mainstream. Making it more mainstream means expanding within your current regions. Not simply hitting regions that weren't served before.
And again, you said: "Gaming would still be considered a small niche hobby if Sony and Nintendo hadn't changed things up and mass-marketed their systems to a larger audience."
Sony did not hit a larger audience within the already established territories. It hit other territories, that's it. By calling gaming a niche hobby you implied that Sony somehow made gaming more popular. It didn't.
"Yes Nintendo was in litigation with Atari, and this allowed the Sega Master System to gain a huge foothold in the European market."
You are again fleeing from your original position.
You said: "The NES wasn't as popular in Europe because the Master System dominated that region."
This is not the same as saying Nintendo was prevented from entering Europe because of litigation, thus allowing Sega to penetrate that area. Trying to edit your statement doesn't help. It simply makes your arguments transitory.
I meant "third game" as more of yet another sequel to Wii Fit and Sports, but your point holds up well too. I think another entry in the series are going to be the only thing to get them to buy that "one more game" to make it 6-7 games total for the "new" folk at this point.
New Super Mario Bros. Wii will definitely bridge the gap between the "new" and "old" audience, same as the original Super Mario Bros. did for the NES. I remember all of those early Nintendo Powers talking about how some 5 year old was crazy for Mario next to someone's gamer Grandma doing the same.
I think Nintendo is just as guilty as anyone (if not more) for sectionalizing their own audience instead of making games that both can play.
@mariomaniac45213
A proper Donkey Kong adventure, or even some retro themed upgrade of the arcade would be awesome. I forgot it on my list, as there are a ton of Nintendo themed franchises. Nintendo needs to remember them more than we do. At least they'd get paid to, where as we get nostalgia eyed for free.
Also, new IPs please.
Release the new Nintendo IP's that are available outside NA.
(Disaster Day of Crisis, Fatal Frame IV, Captain Rainbow, Trace Memory R)
Release more traditional Nintendo games.
(Kirby, F-Zero, DK, Pilotwings, Pikmin, StarFox)
Problem solved.
Oh, and shocking idea here Nintendo - MARKET YOUR GAMES.
I hate to use all caps, but come on, it needs to be done. Word of mouth obviously doesn't work all that well.
You guys have got to be kidding me, why don't you just stop?
Guys please stop with this core games as solution nonsense, it's leading you nowhere. Makes no sense.
Yes, the core games are the ONLY thing that saved the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube, not to mention Nintendo by and large.
N64's drawback was the refusal to go CD versus cartridge, and the high prices it caused for both developers and consumers. Tactics like those resulted in losing Square and pretty much all of their third party support. Why not produce more cheap to manufacture games with higher storage capacity on the PSX?
Gamecube still suffered from the leftover N64 damage of losing third party support, not to mention that while they finally went to discs, they used yet another confounding media solution. Not to mention wasted features like online (despite it not being the "norm" in the early 2000's, and other failed/unrealized features such as the GBA/GC connectivity.
If the "core" base hadn't so loyally stuck to the N64 and GC during its "dark days" (not to mention sales of the Game Boy sustaining the rough parts), there would be no Wii.
Nintendo's still made mistakes with the Wii: Third party is still very weak, but slightly improving (but no NES/SNES days). They still treat online as a novelty. And one of the coolest system features, the Virtual Console, is treated as a bottom of the barrel throw away feature.
Nintendo's already had a few "phenomenons": Pokemon, Nintendogs, both decent franchises, and that's on top of their already huge stable of game franchises.
I will agree with you that it's likely Iwata wants another "Wii Sports" craze, but who wouldn't? He can't predict what the audiences will go "batmess coo-coo" for any more than we can, though Nintendo has had a large string of successes: Game Boy, Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, and that's not counting everything else fans love.
It almost sounds like you don't want them to release any new franchise titles as what's the point?
There's still a "core" audience on Nintendo platforms. It's smaller, and it's overshadowed, but it's still there, and rabidly loyal in hopes that we'll get that F-Zero, Pilotwings, Starfox, Earthbound, or Kid Icarus.
Who knows? Perhaps Nintendo is smart enough to add that all access feature to NSMB as their proverbial "gateway drug" to get this new audience past the "Wii Series" phase. They can't sustain that audience indefinitely, and I think the new audience would be less likely to hang around in the long run than the ones who have sat and waited for "more" since the NES, SNES, N64, and Cube days.
The "core" will buy the next Nintendo system, despite the frustration and complaints. I'm wondering if the "new" audience will continue on past the Wii, or is owning just one system "good enough"?
Nintendo needs to prepare for that future, and they need to balance things out again.
Oops, this was a lot longer than I intended it to be. Oh well.
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/ ... rtual-boy/
Ha. I never expected Malstrom to fight back against a mere GoNintendo commenter. But holy s*** is that funny. And no, in case you're wondering, I did not email this story to Malstrom. This one caught me by surprise.
The Pokemon audience saved the Gameboy, the Brain Age audience saved the DS(in Japan), the Wii Fit audience saved the Wii.
That's really what it means. Iwata isn't talking about barely floating second/third place consoles, if that was the case then he'd be satisfied with the Wii now. What you call the core gamer, which isn't the same as he calls it, is not WORTH satisfying. For anybody, including Microsoft and Sony(just look at the full accounts of both of their investments right now).
You can kick and scream all you want, that isn't going to matter. The Wii disatisfaction WILL continue, this is part of the DNA of this console. If Iwata finds what he's looking for(a "powerful" game, could be Nintencats, and I'm not joking), then he won't complain anymore like he is. He may apologize for the course to the core gamers who will always be complaining, but none of it will change really.
This is simply not true. Because the Wii wasn't in trouble before Wii Fit was released. It was doing just fine. Now, Wii Fit did sustain and in fact increase momentum, but saying it "saved" the Wii isn't entirely correct. Something needs saving only if it's in trouble in the first place.
Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit Plus and New Super Mario Bros. Wii could all be said to "save" the Wii because there's a notable problem at the moment.
"What you call the core gamer, which isn't the same as he calls it, are not WORTH satisfying."
I'm confused by what you're saying here. Are you being facetious and saying core gamers are whiners (which is fine with me)? Or are you saying Nintendo doesn't care about core gamers and doesn't want to satisfy them?
Because if it's the latter, I have to question that logic with Super Mario Galaxy 2, Zelda Wii and Metroid Other M on the way next year.
In terms of not being worth satisfying, I'm saying more in a investment-profit kind of way. Afterall it is a business. Last generation and prior, there was a big illusion that "hardcore" gamers were responsible for the rise of the PlayStation. That's a bit of a misunderstanding. The non-expanded market is very diverse, and many people who purchased the PS1/2 were not the same championing for better visuals and more technology. Those were those who led Microsoft and Sony where they are now essentially. Once again, look at theit monetary accounts for this generation. Clearly they lost quite a bit of money trying to appeal to the hardcore, which probably wouldn't have been satisfied anyway had it not been for Nintendo's "inferior" presence, since we do have diminishing returns showing up early. On top of it much of the loss was hidden from their reports by profits from other products.
The games coming out next year are for the Wii customer's "satisfaction", afterall they are customers. But it's not what Iwata is in urgency about. Those aren't the same core gamers that keep posting on message boards. They usually get confused, but it's really a totally different crowd. Many of them are Wii Fit customers in fact.
That I'd also agree with. I doubt anything will change, but they do need to find a better balance. Again meaning that while the core audience may not fully go for casual or vice versa, one would think that there is an eventual plan to do something with all of these "new" gamers they've gotten, which will hopefully get them into the rest of the Nintendo product.
Does that mean the senior center will be alive with the sounds of Samus Aran? Not likely majority wise, but if they can bring in a few new players in there somewhere.
Unless of course they're planning a third Wii Fit/Wii Sports title, which honestly, I don't think either title were intended to have sequels (due to the amount of recycled content in the new games). But these two titles are all the new audience seem to care about, and if the well runs dry, they'll move on to the next "in" or "hot exercise" product. Nintendo has pretty much lived off of the success of these two titles for the last three years. Might be able to argue Mario Kart and Brawl, but in comparison, not really.
As I've said, Nintendo needs to find "middle ground" badly and soon, as to be honest, they are their own worst enemy. They've gone from the perception of "kiddie/baby games" to the perception of "Grandpa/soccer mom games", and they need to find a better way to reel in the "casual" and "core" gamers as one group. They've greatly segmented their own audience into factions instead of unifying them, and until they figure out what to do, they're going to have a tough sell with the next system. That's what this generation is going to be remembered for: The birth of gaming genre factions.
There are things I'm very pleased with the Wii. I don't want the same experience as I get with an Xbox 360. That's the point of trying out multiple systems. But the Wii has been a lot of unrealized potential, and that's largely due to Nintendo holding itself back, despite the opportunities and features already being available.
Since Miyamoto got a cat recently, I can see a spin-off cat game eventually, along with the usual rush of shoddy third-party clones trying to capitalize off Nintendo's latest ideas and successes. I'm surprised they never ventured to make a Wii version of Nintendogs at this stage with more dog types available. You would have thought, right?
In reality, core games will not save the Wii, because the problem is time and money. Money for America, IMO, and time for Japan. They are more interested in portable titles.
Core games WILL however fill a huge gap, because while their biggest money maker right now is casuals, that's because they made it that way. A lot of people bought their Wii FOR core games, like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and want things like Kirby, Star Fox, Donkey Kong and revived retro titles.
A lot of people bought Wii at launch for actual games. The expanded audience was an after thing that Nintendo was hoping for, and grew because they focused on it when it brought them money.
@thedreadpirateguy
This!
@tendoboy1984
The problem here is that people like you seem to think 2D Super Mario games were never casual.
It's like Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros. and Animal Crossing.
These games were ALWAYS casual and meant to be played casually. Super Mario Bros. as well, especially once the series started picking up the ability to save. NSMBW is casual, but that (and the other games mentioned) are a sort of "casual-core", I guess you'd call them? Where it's a casual game that can have a core audience and feel to it if you so choose. Just like Tetris.
Really, by that logic you could say the same about any game, but acting like NSMBW being casual is 'new' or that it is false is just being ignorant.
@Game_Locks
In reality, that's the problem.
Since everyone has one, there's no one left to sell to. Nintendo, and fans, haven't realized this yet.
@Burgers
This. MrBubbles does the same thing, but unlike Innvervate, complains about Nintendo too.
@Inneverate
Unless I am misunderstanding this comment, you are reversing the bridge concept.
The point of bridge games are to bring in new gamers who will then join the older gamers in playing core games, which is part of why games got easier, and why games are now shifting to the Punch-Out/NSMBW style where they have the game normal or hard, and then an option for people who get bad to have an easier time or skip things.
We are not supposed to be bridging old gamers to be casual and use the Balance Board and wave around in minigames and fitness titles.
And as for the burst in 2008, it's not that no games came out, it's the fact that they shot their load early in the year, rather than spreading it out, which, in my opinion, would've been a better tactic.
What Nintendo needs to do is make NINTENDO games, the stuff they have always made which they do less of now (aside from Japan anyway). Look at Mario Kart, a Nintendo staple that once marketed correctly (for everyone) has had unimaginable success (even though it is arguably more complex than DD).
Nintendo are falling into two traps...
1. They are segmenting their own products for different 'markets', even though the Wii is supposed to be against that sort of thing.
2. They are only focusing on getting more sales, as opposed to making the best of the sales they have now (which I find stupid). The games themselves is supposd to be where the money comes from.
Zelda could easily be a mega-hit just like Lord of the Rings, if Nintendo allow it. Also, where is my Pokemon Snap 2?
Ha ha dude malstrom actually laughed at you in particular in his new article:
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/ ... rtual-boy/
"Naturally, there is tons of garbage on the Internet about Iwata’s quote. ...one person laughably said Nintendo needs to release more Fire Emblem (yeah, that is the momentum builder right there, Fire Emblem!)."
Ha ha
Two comments from this thread mentioned by Malstrom, one commenter mentioned by name.
Thank you. I laughed a lot thanks to this article.
"UGC breeds hostility (though, consumers won’t articulate it is UGC. They will just know that there is no game there and wonder why they paid $50 for a game that has nothing in it). In a way, it would have likely have been better to make no software than to make UGC software."
I bought and enjoyed Wii Music because of that. Oh, and I plan to buy Wario Ware DIY. He shouldn't make such generalizations. Also, he said Animal Crossing Wii failed because it was a UGC software. What about the DS version ?
And this :"The “hub” in Super Mario Galaxy can take five minutes just getting around. That is ridiculous."
The hub in Super Mario Galaxy is ridiculously small. And they made it so in order to help the expanded audience gamers to make there first stepS in a 3d mario game. Does he actually read Iwata Asks Interviews ? Or his he too clever for that ? This guy is the new "Zero Punctuation" guy.
Third parties have only BEGUN to do that this year proper...although in past there have been great specifically developed for Wii software(we know there first party gems and third party but...)...Zack and WIKI for example......
More recently, Madworld, Dead Space...what of Cursed Mountain and Silent Hill Shattered Memories...bet those will tank too.
The Conduit?
Red Steel 2
The Grinder
Gladiator AD
Bet these will all tank...but come 2010 Microsoft NATAL and Sony Motion core games will churn on those systems and sell like a "HALO" (like hotcakes as they say) would and continue to sell, you watch.
Is it all really down to a lack of the 1080p, 720p visuals(well devs are not using the hardware anyway - making Wii engines) or is
Nintendo is already really pigeonholed into kiddy toy crap for mini-game and casuals box by all core gamers?
Yeah he reads them and comments on them. He has a few of his own ideas and shares them with people.
His views on UGC software aren't entirely amiss. I don't see Wario Ware DIY coming out any time soon over here after doing not so great in Japan. And I sold my copy of Wii Music, the only first party title I've gotten rid of. Not saying it was awful, just not for me.
I agree with you about Animal Crossing, but that was just one game out of several.
Ha ha dude at least 3 other people mentioned Fire Emblem, and some casual nobody thinks otherwise. Wise up, kiddo, it may not have sold as well as other games, but it's among the most played Wii games, and any game in the series ranks easily among the top RPGs released in that generation.
http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=102790
Hey, if you like plotless games like Wii Sports Resort Babyz Party Bash Dash, then all power to you. I'd rather see Nintendo make the most of their Art, and develop story alongside gameplay as companies such as Intelligent Systems tend to do. Even their Warioware games have characters with personalities, and each set of microgames has a story, and thin as it may be, still charming, attached to it.
One other person mentioned it, saying:
"For those that mentioned Fire Emblem, there's a Fire Emblem on Wii, which sold less than 250,000 copies in the US (estimated)."
Then I mentioned it in context of malstrom mentioning you say it. It is a good game, I don't think anything bad about it, I was just remarking on how he was specifically commenting on your comment.
So -you- wise up kiddo.
And really, lumping Wii Sports Resort in with 'baby dash partyz' is really pathetic.
You are right about Wario Ware having cute plots and characters, but wrong about lumping a good game in with a bunch of crap ones.
I liked Sony, having had a PS1 and 2, but PS3 severed that tie.
There are afew multi-console owners on here [like Artistic_Anarchy], they'd know whether PS3 is better quality than its predecessors.
You missed the other two:
@Hongo
"Give me more Kirby, Star Fox, Fire Emblem, Pikmin,"
@tendoboy1984
And don't forget about your other IPs like Starfox, Pikmin, Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, etc.
And you seem to have conveniently forgotten the fact that Fire Emblem is the 5th top played Wii game to date, in the face of any other game that may have sold better.
When I tell you to wise up, kiddo, I mean it. Check your facts because your words mean nothing without them.
This malstrom guy is obviously very uninformed if he comments on random peoples' posts while ignoring articles proving him wrong, as shown in the link in my previous post here.
Ha! I see what happened: the two people I 'missed' are on my foes list because they bother the crap out of me.
That's fine, it's a great game, it's highly played, I have friends who have it and it rules.
All I'm saying is that it isn't going to 'boost the momentum' of the Wii to come out with one. Coming out with more of all their established IP will help, but singling out Fire Emblem as what will boost the momentum, that's just funny. So drop the 'tude, boi!
Yeah, laughing at you for saying 'come out with a new Fire Emblem, that will boost Wii's momentum' when really you and lots of other Nintendo fans would simply like to play it, that isn't wrong. I don't think he was uninformed.
And sorry I didn't see the other two posts about it. I agree, Kirby, Starfox and another Fire Emblem would be nice games to see, Donkey Kong etc...
The fact that the smallish number of people who bought fire emblem wii spend a large amount of time on it because it is a long-term, grindy sort of game means another entry would help the momentum, like Nintendo is getting paid by the hour of gametime instead of by the copies sold, then... I mean we are talking about regaining its SALES momentum, not its nerdrection factor.
But if you think 'most hours played by the few people who geek out into those things' equals 'saving the downward trend of the Wii software sales' then you gots a lot to think about before you go tellin' me anything, Q.
I don't have a foe list for that, among other reasons.
And you can't grind in most Fire Emblem games. Outside of certain scenarios, there's only so much Exp to go around.
Besides that, F.E. games, along with 3rd party "core" games like Dragon Quest 10, Monster Hunter 3, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, all properly marketed, would attract people who bought their Wii for something new and want to see that newness expanded beyond Wii Sports, and Wario Ware, and Party Babyz. The rest of the game selection may be nerdware, sure, but marketing it to the casuals will get them buying it anyway.
And besides, it wouldn't hurt the expanded audience to get their brain cells moving with a game that has plot mixed in. The introductory phase is over, and people are getting sick of casual games. Time to market the nerdier games to them.
tl;dr: The solution is pretty much the same. More nerdrection games, market them as casual games.
I have a Nintendo 64 still, so I am 2 generations behind. (I skipped out on the PS2/GameCube era.)
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