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November 5, 2009 by The News Team
Filed Under: Wii
It was all thanks to the graphical capacity of Wii console. If two players or more are simultaneously controlling Mario and Luigi in the same screen on a platformer game, the slower player will be left behind by the faster player, beyond the game screen. This time the screen zooms in and out accordingly, thanks to the capacity of the Wii console. The camera can zoom out as far as three times wider where you can see a very small Mario running around, and zoom in to show huge Mario and Luigi. The camera will work automatically and simultaneously, according to the position of four players. That’s how we realized a Mario game which can be played by up to four players at the same time. - Shigeru Miyamoto
Man, if that's true, can you imagine if this game was on 360/PS3?! Just kidding, of course. Still, I'd like to think that this game could have been done on the DS. I really don't think there's all that much going into the game when you consider graphical horsepower. Then again, I know absolutely nothing about programming.
Story Feedback
So if Nintendo tried this on the Gamecube it would only be 2player co-op?
;D
Fro~
;D
Fro~
"Man, if that's true, can you imagine if this game was on 360/PS3?! Just kidding, of course."
Yes. In this vision of mine we had online multiplayer. With Voice Chat compatibility. And no friend codes in sight.
It was a happy dream.
Yes. In this vision of mine we had online multiplayer. With Voice Chat compatibility. And no friend codes in sight.
It was a happy dream.
That seems to be stretching it honestly. That alone is due to the Wii's power? The Smash Bros. games for example, have been doing this since the first game. Having the camera focused on all characters, zooming in and out accordingly depending on where players are on the stage.
You think that's neat, imagine what two Wii's duck taped together would do. Amazing things I tell you!
"Man, if that's true, can you imagine if this game was on 360/PS3?!"
Hehehh.. RMC wins again.
But this is really nothing to be impressed since other games like fighters have been doing this for a while.
Hehehh.. RMC wins again.
But this is really nothing to be impressed since other games like fighters have been doing this for a while.
POWER OF PLAYSTATION 3'S CELL PROCESSO-power of Wii GPU?
what am I reading
what am I reading
@Hongo
Not to mention the fact that with Brawl, most importantly, looks much better than NSMBWii, to me. Although that's not to say that I think NSMBWii looks bad or anything, it's just that Brawl looks like it's pushing the Wii a lot more.
Sometimes I think these little tid bits from Miyamoto really get lost in translation sometimes, in reference to this and the "Not powerful enough for online" bit that circulated a while back. :/
Fro~
Not to mention the fact that with Brawl, most importantly, looks much better than NSMBWii, to me. Although that's not to say that I think NSMBWii looks bad or anything, it's just that Brawl looks like it's pushing the Wii a lot more.
Sometimes I think these little tid bits from Miyamoto really get lost in translation sometimes, in reference to this and the "Not powerful enough for online" bit that circulated a while back. :/
Fro~
@Burgers
The point is those games weren't worried about frames per second! If this game can stay at 60 or whatever it runs at. With the same quality of graphics, and speed. It's saying something. Go back and play Mario Kart 64 multiplayer can compare it to Mario Kart Wii. You lose alot of stuff just playing with 4. Contra 2p is about staying close to your partner so you won't kill them. By moving the stage on them. He is saying it's almost possible to have 1 player at the end. At the same time a player at the beginning. With all of that still visible.
Also your going to compare a single 2 box area for a fighting stage. To a up to 10 box area of a side scroll stage?
You know how small that really is right. It's like fighting in your front yard, and staying there. Compared fighting in all the front yards for 2 to 3 blocks down the street.
Ya it's not really something to right home about, but at the same time. Other then LBP what other game has really attempted it. If you played LBP NSMBWii has alot more things going on.
The point is those games weren't worried about frames per second! If this game can stay at 60 or whatever it runs at. With the same quality of graphics, and speed. It's saying something. Go back and play Mario Kart 64 multiplayer can compare it to Mario Kart Wii. You lose alot of stuff just playing with 4. Contra 2p is about staying close to your partner so you won't kill them. By moving the stage on them. He is saying it's almost possible to have 1 player at the end. At the same time a player at the beginning. With all of that still visible.
Also your going to compare a single 2 box area for a fighting stage. To a up to 10 box area of a side scroll stage?
You know how small that really is right. It's like fighting in your front yard, and staying there. Compared fighting in all the front yards for 2 to 3 blocks down the street.
Ya it's not really something to right home about, but at the same time. Other then LBP what other game has really attempted it. If you played LBP NSMBWii has alot more things going on.
@Freddy Fro
The Wii is just Gamecube 1.5, so using my math skillz:
The GC version could've only handled 2.66 (Repeating of course) players.
The Wii is just Gamecube 1.5, so using my math skillz:
The GC version could've only handled 2.66 (Repeating of course) players.
I think from his point of view, coming from having developed in an 8-bit era, this is some really major advances in tech over what you could do back then.
It's a much better game than smash bros . I suppose he means something about those 2d graphics and whatnot. And in this case , yeah that's thanks to the wii that warioland ig production shake, muramasa , a boy and his blob have been made.
This has nothing to do with the Wii's graphical power.
Nintendo has been doing this since the N64. Who do you think you're fooling, Miyamoto.
You just want to try to make people believe that this game is a technological achievement.
Nintendo has been doing this since the N64. Who do you think you're fooling, Miyamoto.
You just want to try to make people believe that this game is a technological achievement.
@gamerpete64
Except it was just small arenas instead of large levels.
I think some people are missing the point very badly.
Except it was just small arenas instead of large levels.
I think some people are missing the point very badly.
@MalikHalo
Egad, you're right! But this still doesn't answer the question as to whether or not the Gamecube could have handled TWO toads! I mean, would it have been Mario, a toad, and Luigi without a head? These are the questions that haunt me... :O
Fro~
Egad, you're right! But this still doesn't answer the question as to whether or not the Gamecube could have handled TWO toads! I mean, would it have been Mario, a toad, and Luigi without a head? These are the questions that haunt me... :O
Fro~
I love Miyamoto's work and respect the dude to no end, but that......is a truly UNtrue comment that NSMBWii is only able to be made on wii thanks to the GPU in it.
There have been a lot of games that allowed 4 characters playing at once, on many weaker systems. Ironically, there are a fair amount of DS games that not only allow up to 4 players at once, but also offer it over wifi. Such games include Mario Kart DS and Phantasy Star 0 to name 2. Then there's some non-wifi local multiplayer games such as Kingdom Hearts DS and Dragon Quest 9. All fully 3D too. Remember that New Super Mario Bros (DS and Wii) uses 2D backgrounds with 3D characters. Those DS games mentioned use full 3D environments AND characters. And DS isn't even quite as powerful in regards to 3D as N64 (it can hold more data though, with better 2D handling).
So yeah, I still respect and like the guy of course. But this comment is just what I might consider a "senior moment". Something a lot of people will call him out on and just isn't true at all. Mario Galaxy and games like The Conduit are a few of the only games I'd believe him about. NSMB Wii could easily be made on DS, I don't even see any difference in the graphics besides the larger field of view. They could port this to the DS easily IMO using the old NSMB DS engine as a template. I wish they would, but whatever, not ontopic.
There have been a lot of games that allowed 4 characters playing at once, on many weaker systems. Ironically, there are a fair amount of DS games that not only allow up to 4 players at once, but also offer it over wifi. Such games include Mario Kart DS and Phantasy Star 0 to name 2. Then there's some non-wifi local multiplayer games such as Kingdom Hearts DS and Dragon Quest 9. All fully 3D too. Remember that New Super Mario Bros (DS and Wii) uses 2D backgrounds with 3D characters. Those DS games mentioned use full 3D environments AND characters. And DS isn't even quite as powerful in regards to 3D as N64 (it can hold more data though, with better 2D handling).
So yeah, I still respect and like the guy of course. But this comment is just what I might consider a "senior moment". Something a lot of people will call him out on and just isn't true at all. Mario Galaxy and games like The Conduit are a few of the only games I'd believe him about. NSMB Wii could easily be made on DS, I don't even see any difference in the graphics besides the larger field of view. They could port this to the DS easily IMO using the old NSMB DS engine as a template. I wish they would, but whatever, not ontopic.
I think Miyamoto's really saying that it can o all that in ADDITION to the tons of enemies, large levels, and very nice looking graphics. When the game does all that and stays at 60 fps it does seem like a fair feat. To me, anyway.
Not to mention we don't know exactly how FAR the screen will zoom out. It might go a lot further than Smash Bros. could, and almost certainly goes further than the N64 one did.
Not to mention we don't know exactly how FAR the screen will zoom out. It might go a lot further than Smash Bros. could, and almost certainly goes further than the N64 one did.
funny though, that the wii's power was also apparently a reason for it not being online.
@internet
You're stretching it as bad as Miyamoto! All of the games you listed could have been made last gen. They look fantastic no doubt, but the programming and all that jazz is easy for hardware to handle. Especially compared to a lot of today's games, very simple.
You're stretching it as bad as Miyamoto! All of the games you listed could have been made last gen. They look fantastic no doubt, but the programming and all that jazz is easy for hardware to handle. Especially compared to a lot of today's games, very simple.
Actually, if you think about it- it is a huge feat. In Smash you have a set stage that isn't as big as the levels in NSMBW. You would need a lot of memory in order to be able to zoom out on bigger stages- being able to see what's going on at all points of the stage and being able for the players to interact with each point.
Say 4 people are playing. One stays at the front, the other runs off to almost the end- where the level won't conclude. The other 2 can be anywhere in the middle interacting with stage elements and each other. This needs a lot of horsepower- but the funniest thing about it? The 360/PS3's power would allow you to do it with even more going on and probably allow you to write code that is "sloppier" than this game. That's the problem with 3rd parties, not wanting to make sure the code is nice and tight...
Say 4 people are playing. One stays at the front, the other runs off to almost the end- where the level won't conclude. The other 2 can be anywhere in the middle interacting with stage elements and each other. This needs a lot of horsepower- but the funniest thing about it? The 360/PS3's power would allow you to do it with even more going on and probably allow you to write code that is "sloppier" than this game. That's the problem with 3rd parties, not wanting to make sure the code is nice and tight...
... and yet in Super smash bros 64 it was possible to play 4 players simultaneously...
Cmon Shiggy...
Add this quote to the Shiggy quote pile, like the 'Shiggy could have made Halo' quote
Cmon Shiggy...
Add this quote to the Shiggy quote pile, like the 'Shiggy could have made Halo' quote
@COlimar788
Can you link me to a source that says it runs at 60fps please? I haven't read anywhere how well it runs at.
Can you link me to a source that says it runs at 60fps please? I haven't read anywhere how well it runs at.
@TheWon
Thanks, you saved me the trouble of having to explain this.
And to the people saying other games have multiplayer like PSZ and KHDS. Well those games are not using split screen or single screen. Each game only has to handle rendering it's own area plus up to 3 player characters and their effects, not including yourself.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Miyamoto knows a lot more than the average game site commenter.
Thanks, you saved me the trouble of having to explain this.
And to the people saying other games have multiplayer like PSZ and KHDS. Well those games are not using split screen or single screen. Each game only has to handle rendering it's own area plus up to 3 player characters and their effects, not including yourself.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Miyamoto knows a lot more than the average game site commenter.
So far I have seen absolutely nothing in this game that couldn't have been done on DS as well. Yes, the graphical fidelity would likely take a hit and characters might appear very small if they were on completely opposite sides of the level, but other than that this game is very doable on the DS. If you can make Mario Kart DS, Phantom Hourglass, Metroid Prime Hunters and New Super Mario Bros on the system, then hell to the yeah you can add a couple of character sprites to the equation and make this work too.
With that said, I'm glad they made it for the Wii instead, but it's rather funny they try to assure us of Wii's horsepower with a (basically) retro 2D platformer...
With that said, I'm glad they made it for the Wii instead, but it's rather funny they try to assure us of Wii's horsepower with a (basically) retro 2D platformer...
I wish people would stop using SSB as an example, especially when it's a game with small arenas vs a game with a full length level.
Four Sword Adventures is a more powerful game than NSMB Wii.
Prove me wrong.
Prove me wrong.
@Roflinator
The Temple and New Pork City stages say, "Hi". And for moving stages, Poke Floats and Rainbow Cruise also wave.
The Temple and New Pork City stages say, "Hi". And for moving stages, Poke Floats and Rainbow Cruise also wave.
^NSMB's levels are still bigger, me thinks.
But then, there's Mushroomy Kingdom
EDIT:
@Freddy Fro
FFFFFFFF~
But then, there's Mushroomy Kingdom
EDIT:
@Freddy Fro
FFFFFFFF~
@Rolfinator
First of all, no I don't believe the backgrounds are in 3D. They have some little scrolling effects and other things, but nothing the DS can't and hasn't done.
And Brawl is a great example to use. Even Melee. They are far more impressive than this game, and have scrolling stages and everything. They also happen to be modeled fully in 3D.
The camera even works like SSB in this game. It won't eventually get so far away, you can see the entire level. It gets to a point where if a character is too far over, they get left behind and killed apparently.
Don't defend Miyamoto here, he said something that isn't true. He's not perfect, and even if you love his games like I do, he's still a human being who can say stupid things. There is no such thing as a perfect human being. He is a human being.
First of all, no I don't believe the backgrounds are in 3D. They have some little scrolling effects and other things, but nothing the DS can't and hasn't done.
And Brawl is a great example to use. Even Melee. They are far more impressive than this game, and have scrolling stages and everything. They also happen to be modeled fully in 3D.
The camera even works like SSB in this game. It won't eventually get so far away, you can see the entire level. It gets to a point where if a character is too far over, they get left behind and killed apparently.
Don't defend Miyamoto here, he said something that isn't true. He's not perfect, and even if you love his games like I do, he's still a human being who can say stupid things. There is no such thing as a perfect human being. He is a human being.
And NSMB Wii's levels being bigger than Brawl is of no consequence. SSB doesn't need bigger levels. It's for fighting, not exploring. And both Melee and Brawl have some large adventure stages. Large stages are not hard to make. And you're still forgetting, most of NSMB Wii is in 2D. Hardly taking much a toll on the system. Maybe if the game looked something like Braid, I'd believe it was using a good amount of power.
I'm sure that the camera has a limit to the amount it can pan out if that's what you're saying. I'm not 100% sure what happens when a character reaches the end of the screen, but it still has its limits. And it certainly doesn't show the entire level in one screen. And it's like SSB just since SSB zoomed out the camera every once in a while.
@Freddy Fro
Oh yeah! I forgot about that one. Another good example! Moving stages, 4 players, and a ton of items that explode, shoot, run around, etc. and it keeps up with all of the action just fine for everyone.
Oh yeah! I forgot about that one. Another good example! Moving stages, 4 players, and a ton of items that explode, shoot, run around, etc. and it keeps up with all of the action just fine for everyone.
I don't even care about the technicalities.
I don't care that it doesn't have online.
It looks and sounds good enough to me, and it looks FUN, and THAT is what matters. I wouldn't want to play this online much, anyways, honestly.
I don't care that it doesn't have online.
It looks and sounds good enough to me, and it looks FUN, and THAT is what matters. I wouldn't want to play this online much, anyways, honestly.
Man those people who think this game needed wifi and voice chat know NOTHING about game design.
This game needs wifi and voice chat for me to even think about paying for it.
lol its not the zooming guiz
its the mesh and textr on screen
the stuff off screen, while prossesed, is never rendered, now it is thats what hes talking about
its like some of you people no nothing about programming
its the mesh and textr on screen
the stuff off screen, while prossesed, is never rendered, now it is thats what hes talking about
its like some of you people no nothing about programming
@WiiFolder
Oh please. Both are becoming standard in the industry. Especially for games that promote multiplayer. Not everyone has friends/family around to play games. Online helps. A lot.
Oh please. Both are becoming standard in the industry. Especially for games that promote multiplayer. Not everyone has friends/family around to play games. Online helps. A lot.
@plan9
"So far I have seen absolutely nothing in this game that couldn't have been done on DS as well. "
You do realize that the background objects are fully 3 dimensional, among the other things? The Game Informer video from a few days ago showed something like 30-40 cheep cheeps on screen at once with no hiccups, while I remember some slight slowdowns in World 8 in NSMB when no more than 10 enemies were on screen.
The whole "durr DS port" gag is about as funny as "PS3 HAS NO GAEMS".
@Granville
"First of all, no I don't believe the backgrounds are in 3D. They have some little scrolling effects and other things, but nothing the DS can't and hasn't done."
You have no idea just how weak the machine can be, especially when compared to even the Wii. No, it can not do 3D background/foreground without major sacrifices.
"So far I have seen absolutely nothing in this game that couldn't have been done on DS as well. "
You do realize that the background objects are fully 3 dimensional, among the other things? The Game Informer video from a few days ago showed something like 30-40 cheep cheeps on screen at once with no hiccups, while I remember some slight slowdowns in World 8 in NSMB when no more than 10 enemies were on screen.
The whole "durr DS port" gag is about as funny as "PS3 HAS NO GAEMS".
@Granville
"First of all, no I don't believe the backgrounds are in 3D. They have some little scrolling effects and other things, but nothing the DS can't and hasn't done."
You have no idea just how weak the machine can be, especially when compared to even the Wii. No, it can not do 3D background/foreground without major sacrifices.
No offense RMC....but the more I read some of your personal comments you attach to some of these article bits, the more I think you must be on some serious drugs.
To say that this game could have been done on DS is asinine. The DS is barely as graphically powerful as the N64. In fact nothing that has come out for it so far has even looked nearly as good as the best 64 games. The Wii is by far more powerful than the PS2 and GC, and even at least a bit more powerful than the original Xbox.
It's powerful enough to do games like Modern Warfare and make them actually look decent, let's put it that way.
This couldn't have been done on DS, at all. You must not really be studying the video clips we've all seen very closely, because in the high res videos, you can clearly see that this game actually looks pretty amazing.
How so? Well, for one thing, the graphics look pre-rendered, for the most part, not polygonal, which is crazy, because it IS fully polygonal. Which means that all the models actually look really smooth. The in game effects, like sand particles, lighting, see through ice, flames, water, etc., look really good. The game runs at 60 frames per second, all while having up to 4 players on screen, with sometimes DOZENS of enemies on screen at once. Not 3 or 4 like in the old 2D Marios. But DOZENS. The backgrounds also look pre-rendered, but people who've actually played the game say that in person the backgrounds are actually pretty impressive, and are fully 3D as well, with proper distance perception and everything, not multi-scrolling like the SNES.
In other words, this game actually is taking full advantage of the Wii's graphical muscle. People don't seem to think so, because there is this ignorant perception that these days, 2D must not equal good graphics, or that it can be easily done. Do you think Muramasa could be done on DS? Because I don't. Or LostWinds? The DS has some good looking 2D games, but nothing on that level.
To say that this game could have been done on DS is asinine. The DS is barely as graphically powerful as the N64. In fact nothing that has come out for it so far has even looked nearly as good as the best 64 games. The Wii is by far more powerful than the PS2 and GC, and even at least a bit more powerful than the original Xbox.
It's powerful enough to do games like Modern Warfare and make them actually look decent, let's put it that way.
This couldn't have been done on DS, at all. You must not really be studying the video clips we've all seen very closely, because in the high res videos, you can clearly see that this game actually looks pretty amazing.
How so? Well, for one thing, the graphics look pre-rendered, for the most part, not polygonal, which is crazy, because it IS fully polygonal. Which means that all the models actually look really smooth. The in game effects, like sand particles, lighting, see through ice, flames, water, etc., look really good. The game runs at 60 frames per second, all while having up to 4 players on screen, with sometimes DOZENS of enemies on screen at once. Not 3 or 4 like in the old 2D Marios. But DOZENS. The backgrounds also look pre-rendered, but people who've actually played the game say that in person the backgrounds are actually pretty impressive, and are fully 3D as well, with proper distance perception and everything, not multi-scrolling like the SNES.
In other words, this game actually is taking full advantage of the Wii's graphical muscle. People don't seem to think so, because there is this ignorant perception that these days, 2D must not equal good graphics, or that it can be easily done. Do you think Muramasa could be done on DS? Because I don't. Or LostWinds? The DS has some good looking 2D games, but nothing on that level.
@Inneverate
I can name a ton of DS games that have used high quality 2D, 3D, and a mix of both. Many of the games I've played used the 3D/2D hybrid as seen in NSMB Wii. I could list a couple here. Starfy 4 for example. Even some of the Castlevania games used some 3D backdrops at times. They looked great and were silky smooth. I don't overestimate the DS, I just call out people who don't know what it's really capable of. It's much more capable than you give it credit for. Whatever you believe though, it's certainly not pushing the Wii much at all.
@Devil_Rising
Sorry, but that's some flawed logic saying that just because Wii can play games like COD Modern Warfare, the DS can't handle NSMB Wii. You seem to fail to understand not all games are created equally. There have been some truly crappy looking Wii games (from any generation). Even a lot of games that would look at home on SNES or N64.
As for the environments, the DS has done what you say this game does. Transparency, dynamic lighting, particles, polygonal backgrounds, 3D characters (NSMB used those). The backgrounds are 3D, but the foreground is clearly 2D, not hard to tell either. By the way, in "old 2D Mario's" there were dozens of enemies onscreen at once. Mario World's first enemies you see are in a pack of about a dozen.
As for Lost Winds, that is fully 3D. And Muramasa is a really high quality 2D game, like Wario Land Shake. New Super Mario Bros Wii looks a LOT like its DS prequel. Many of the level tiles are identical. The characters don't look much better (and it won't matter on a DS screen). And as I said, the DS has already used all the little effects you mentioned in various games. The only thing NSMB DS lacked that the DS version had is 4 player co op and the 3D backgrounds, both of which have been done in other DS games. And for the record, Lost Winds may very well be doable on DS, with some quality loss. But i've seen some similar games on it. However, it's much better looking than NSMB Wii is, and actually DOES take advantage of the system. Muramasa and Wario take very good advantage of the Wii 2D hardware. You can tell. But you can also tell that NSMB Wii is not taking full advantage of the system.
So don't try to defend Miyamoto on his comment. If you have eyes and a brain, you can tell the game is not fully utilizing the Wii's power or even close to it. That's just what developers tell you to sell the game. It'll sell alright, but too bad it's an obvious ploy here.
I can name a ton of DS games that have used high quality 2D, 3D, and a mix of both. Many of the games I've played used the 3D/2D hybrid as seen in NSMB Wii. I could list a couple here. Starfy 4 for example. Even some of the Castlevania games used some 3D backdrops at times. They looked great and were silky smooth. I don't overestimate the DS, I just call out people who don't know what it's really capable of. It's much more capable than you give it credit for. Whatever you believe though, it's certainly not pushing the Wii much at all.
@Devil_Rising
Sorry, but that's some flawed logic saying that just because Wii can play games like COD Modern Warfare, the DS can't handle NSMB Wii. You seem to fail to understand not all games are created equally. There have been some truly crappy looking Wii games (from any generation). Even a lot of games that would look at home on SNES or N64.
As for the environments, the DS has done what you say this game does. Transparency, dynamic lighting, particles, polygonal backgrounds, 3D characters (NSMB used those). The backgrounds are 3D, but the foreground is clearly 2D, not hard to tell either. By the way, in "old 2D Mario's" there were dozens of enemies onscreen at once. Mario World's first enemies you see are in a pack of about a dozen.
As for Lost Winds, that is fully 3D. And Muramasa is a really high quality 2D game, like Wario Land Shake. New Super Mario Bros Wii looks a LOT like its DS prequel. Many of the level tiles are identical. The characters don't look much better (and it won't matter on a DS screen). And as I said, the DS has already used all the little effects you mentioned in various games. The only thing NSMB DS lacked that the DS version had is 4 player co op and the 3D backgrounds, both of which have been done in other DS games. And for the record, Lost Winds may very well be doable on DS, with some quality loss. But i've seen some similar games on it. However, it's much better looking than NSMB Wii is, and actually DOES take advantage of the system. Muramasa and Wario take very good advantage of the Wii 2D hardware. You can tell. But you can also tell that NSMB Wii is not taking full advantage of the system.
So don't try to defend Miyamoto on his comment. If you have eyes and a brain, you can tell the game is not fully utilizing the Wii's power or even close to it. That's just what developers tell you to sell the game. It'll sell alright, but too bad it's an obvious ploy here.
With all due respect, calling New Super Mario Bros. Wii a 2D game and stopping at that? The game uses 3D in many different ways that you may not see, and it might not be obvious let alone visible, but they're there. Mario and company, and the enemies, were 3D on the DS, but surely their polygonal count wasn't all that high.
@Devil_Rising have a good explanation, please read it.
For those who still not understand, imagine if you have very large jpeg picture maybe 10000x1200px, and you open it with your current computer and you zoom it in and out, because you have a very powerful computer, the picture will open, zoom in and out nicely.
Now imagine opening that picture on old computer with pentium 2 or 3 processor. Opening the image itself can take around 30 second or so, then when you zoom it in and out, you will notice you have to wait several second to make the picture displayed properly.
Now imagine it again with a game like NSMB Wii that have several 3D character, several 3D background, several AI for the enemy, etc etc and you zoom it in and out, I bet it require a lot more processing power.
For those who still not understand, imagine if you have very large jpeg picture maybe 10000x1200px, and you open it with your current computer and you zoom it in and out, because you have a very powerful computer, the picture will open, zoom in and out nicely.
Now imagine opening that picture on old computer with pentium 2 or 3 processor. Opening the image itself can take around 30 second or so, then when you zoom it in and out, you will notice you have to wait several second to make the picture displayed properly.
Now imagine it again with a game like NSMB Wii that have several 3D character, several 3D background, several AI for the enemy, etc etc and you zoom it in and out, I bet it require a lot more processing power.
In regards to the zooming thing, the DS has something called rotating and scaling support. So did the GBA. Same thing as the Wii game is doing. It doesn't take as much power to do as it would on a PC. Go look at a game like Astro Boy or Gunstar Super Heroes on GBA to see it in action. The DS NSMB had the zooming effect as well, used sometimes when you entered and completed a level. The action will zoom in and out.
And again, there have been a ton of 3D and 2D hybrid games on DS. Some looking quite similar with the Wii NSMB.
Try again with the argument. And the AI requires only good programming and perhaps bigger cartridge space. And NSMB DS only used a 32MB cartridge, the largest are 256-512MB. Go figure. Kingdom Hearts DS has some good AI for a tonload of characters. Many RPG's do. It only requires patience, time, and some extra storage space to put the code in. Bigger cartridges will allow better quality backgrounds too. NSMB DS didn't even take full advantage of the DS as it is.
And again, there have been a ton of 3D and 2D hybrid games on DS. Some looking quite similar with the Wii NSMB.
Try again with the argument. And the AI requires only good programming and perhaps bigger cartridge space. And NSMB DS only used a 32MB cartridge, the largest are 256-512MB. Go figure. Kingdom Hearts DS has some good AI for a tonload of characters. Many RPG's do. It only requires patience, time, and some extra storage space to put the code in. Bigger cartridges will allow better quality backgrounds too. NSMB DS didn't even take full advantage of the DS as it is.
@Granville
Okay.........first off, I don't appreciate your tone. Please don't speak to me as if I'm a f***ing idiot. That's a good start. Don't tell me what I "don't understand", I used to study computer graphics as a general hobby years ago, and I'm pretty sure I've probably been gaming a hell of a lot longer than you. I actually know what I'm talking about. You seem to be saying a lot, TRYING to sound like you know what you're talking about. There's a big difference. I'm not trying to insult you, but you have already insulted me, so why the hell not.
Secondly, no, there weren't "dozens" of enemies onscreen in ANY old Mario game. Not a single one, least of all Mario World. The SNES was a powerful 16 bit machine, but there isn't a single game I can think of that ever came out for it that had DOZENS of enemies on screen at once.
The DS is powerful enough, and certainly for 2D games. But have you actually LOOKED AT NSMB? Comparing it to NSMB Wii and saying they basically look the same, is actually mentally retarded. About the same as people actually trying to say that Super Smash Bros. Brawl "basically looks the same as Melee". Or that Mario Galaxy "basically looks the same as Sunshine", or even better, some people tried to argue that Sunshine looked better. It's just plain silly, and obviously not looking at the graphics at all.
I do, in fact, have a pretty firm grasp on how computer graphics work, thanks, and I also have a similar grasp on what it takes for a console processor to produce those graphics. Especially at 60 fps. F-Zero X on N64 was an amazing feat at the time it released, because it had 30 cars on screen at once, racing at blistering speed, all moving at 60 fps. That really had not been done before, by any game. But look at the cost, they had to make the graphics very simplistic and the levels very barren. What you're doing, is trying to compare F-Zero X to F-Zero GX, and trying to say that they "basically look the same". Which they don't. And neither do NSMBDS and NSMBWii.
You cannot, with a straight face, compare a picture of NSMB on DS and the new one on Wii, and say that the Wii game doesn't look a LOT better, because it does. NSMB on DS looks good, for a DS game, and it certainly didn't look BAD. But the 3D models are also very blocky, there are NOT "dozens" of enemies on screen at any given time, it does not have anywhere near the polish or advanced particle effects represented that NSMBWii does, and half the graphics in the game weren't even 3D, but were in fact pixelated 2D prerendered sprites.
Nothing in NSMBWii, that I've seen, is prerendered. However, the graphic, as I pointed out, LOOK prerendered, specifically BECAUSE the 3D models are actually that smooth. This isn't that hard to believe. Look at Smash Bros. Brawl or Mario Galaxy. Those games also featured fully 3D models that were similarly rendered, and VERY smooth looking on a SD TV, which is what they were intended for. Everyone who has previewed the game that has actually PLAYED it (unlike you or I), have said that the backgrounds ARE in fact fully 3D, and feature impressive depth and detail. The game has the same ART STYLE as NSMB on DS. Yes, that much is true. But it's supposed to. Mario World also basically had the same ART STYLE as Mario 3, but it looked a LOT better. So does NSMBWii, compared to the other title. Nothing in the game looks blocky, at all. There are no pixelated looking 2D sprites. The graphic style is simplistic, yes, but Mario's graphical style has ALWAYS been rather simplistic, so as to look like a cartoon, not real life. And yes, finally, the fact that the game has levels were DOZENS of, for example, Cheep Cheeps, of varying sizes, depth positions, and animations, are all swarming you on the screen. That has never been done before in a 2D Mario game, and certainly not on NSMB DS, to my knowledge.
The DS simply could not handle the level of graphical polish that this game has. Arguing in circles that it doesn't is pointless, and I fail to understand why you're even wasting your time when you're so obviously wrong. That's like saying that the DS easily could have done Mario Kart Wii's graphics, when it obviously couldn't, and when the graphical disparity between Mario Kart DS and Mario Kart Wii is SO enormous. The graphics in MKWii could have been a lot better than they are, but still, even so, MKDS' graphics, again, while good for the system, are blocky as hell, far less polished and far less detailed than MKWii's. I would say that NSMBWii is easily a better looking game, if you really LOOK at it, than MKWii, so then imagine how much more horsepower it takes to pull that off, with zooming cameras, 4 players, dozens of enemies and objects on screen, all at 60fps, with no slow down or graphical sacrifice.
Could NSMBWii look even better? Of course. But it looks fantastic as is. And certainly MUCH better than the DS game. To say that the DS easily could have done this is, I'm sorry, just plain stupid. The end.
Okay.........first off, I don't appreciate your tone. Please don't speak to me as if I'm a f***ing idiot. That's a good start. Don't tell me what I "don't understand", I used to study computer graphics as a general hobby years ago, and I'm pretty sure I've probably been gaming a hell of a lot longer than you. I actually know what I'm talking about. You seem to be saying a lot, TRYING to sound like you know what you're talking about. There's a big difference. I'm not trying to insult you, but you have already insulted me, so why the hell not.
Secondly, no, there weren't "dozens" of enemies onscreen in ANY old Mario game. Not a single one, least of all Mario World. The SNES was a powerful 16 bit machine, but there isn't a single game I can think of that ever came out for it that had DOZENS of enemies on screen at once.
The DS is powerful enough, and certainly for 2D games. But have you actually LOOKED AT NSMB? Comparing it to NSMB Wii and saying they basically look the same, is actually mentally retarded. About the same as people actually trying to say that Super Smash Bros. Brawl "basically looks the same as Melee". Or that Mario Galaxy "basically looks the same as Sunshine", or even better, some people tried to argue that Sunshine looked better. It's just plain silly, and obviously not looking at the graphics at all.
I do, in fact, have a pretty firm grasp on how computer graphics work, thanks, and I also have a similar grasp on what it takes for a console processor to produce those graphics. Especially at 60 fps. F-Zero X on N64 was an amazing feat at the time it released, because it had 30 cars on screen at once, racing at blistering speed, all moving at 60 fps. That really had not been done before, by any game. But look at the cost, they had to make the graphics very simplistic and the levels very barren. What you're doing, is trying to compare F-Zero X to F-Zero GX, and trying to say that they "basically look the same". Which they don't. And neither do NSMBDS and NSMBWii.
You cannot, with a straight face, compare a picture of NSMB on DS and the new one on Wii, and say that the Wii game doesn't look a LOT better, because it does. NSMB on DS looks good, for a DS game, and it certainly didn't look BAD. But the 3D models are also very blocky, there are NOT "dozens" of enemies on screen at any given time, it does not have anywhere near the polish or advanced particle effects represented that NSMBWii does, and half the graphics in the game weren't even 3D, but were in fact pixelated 2D prerendered sprites.
Nothing in NSMBWii, that I've seen, is prerendered. However, the graphic, as I pointed out, LOOK prerendered, specifically BECAUSE the 3D models are actually that smooth. This isn't that hard to believe. Look at Smash Bros. Brawl or Mario Galaxy. Those games also featured fully 3D models that were similarly rendered, and VERY smooth looking on a SD TV, which is what they were intended for. Everyone who has previewed the game that has actually PLAYED it (unlike you or I), have said that the backgrounds ARE in fact fully 3D, and feature impressive depth and detail. The game has the same ART STYLE as NSMB on DS. Yes, that much is true. But it's supposed to. Mario World also basically had the same ART STYLE as Mario 3, but it looked a LOT better. So does NSMBWii, compared to the other title. Nothing in the game looks blocky, at all. There are no pixelated looking 2D sprites. The graphic style is simplistic, yes, but Mario's graphical style has ALWAYS been rather simplistic, so as to look like a cartoon, not real life. And yes, finally, the fact that the game has levels were DOZENS of, for example, Cheep Cheeps, of varying sizes, depth positions, and animations, are all swarming you on the screen. That has never been done before in a 2D Mario game, and certainly not on NSMB DS, to my knowledge.
The DS simply could not handle the level of graphical polish that this game has. Arguing in circles that it doesn't is pointless, and I fail to understand why you're even wasting your time when you're so obviously wrong. That's like saying that the DS easily could have done Mario Kart Wii's graphics, when it obviously couldn't, and when the graphical disparity between Mario Kart DS and Mario Kart Wii is SO enormous. The graphics in MKWii could have been a lot better than they are, but still, even so, MKDS' graphics, again, while good for the system, are blocky as hell, far less polished and far less detailed than MKWii's. I would say that NSMBWii is easily a better looking game, if you really LOOK at it, than MKWii, so then imagine how much more horsepower it takes to pull that off, with zooming cameras, 4 players, dozens of enemies and objects on screen, all at 60fps, with no slow down or graphical sacrifice.
Could NSMBWii look even better? Of course. But it looks fantastic as is. And certainly MUCH better than the DS game. To say that the DS easily could have done this is, I'm sorry, just plain stupid. The end.
First point- you started this, I hope it doesn't get out of hand, but just remember that you begun the insults if you choose to continue dishing them out.
1- if you can't take it, don't give it. You called people who said the DS could do this game "asinine" and RMC a druggy. So don't get so defensive unless you want to clean your own words up.
2- Go play Donkey Kong Country or Super Mario World and tell me the SNES can't do a dozen sprites at once. The first level in Mario World has like 8 koopas in a line, this is seen more in later levels. The SNES does not suffer from such harsh sprite restrictions as the NES for example. Try playing a game like Tactics Ogre or Ogre Battle. Any of those strategy RPG's. They have MORE than a dozen sprites onscreen at once.
3- I never said NSMB and NSMB Wii look exactly the same. I said firstly that NSMB DS didn't use anywhere near the DS' full power. I also said they look quite similar in style, as they do. And I also said that NSMB Wii is using nowhere near the Wii's full power. I never said they look the same. It is my full belief though that NSMB Wii could be accurately recreated on the DS without much hassle, with only minor graphical changes. None of which you'd likely notice much. There are already similar looking DS games to NSMB Wii.
(keep in mind that here, you called me retarded, after asked me not to call you that. I don't care if you do, but don't complain when I do, hypocrite)
4- I don't believe I ever questioned your knowledge of computer graphics... How did you get that idea? Hm. Interesting you mention Fzero 64. It's yet another game that didn't take near full advantage of the N64's hardware. Fzero 64 looks nothing like Fzero GX in any way. But NSMB on DS and Wii DO look very similar, right down to the level art, character models, and just style. It looks like NSMB DS with better resolution, more characters, and 3D backdrops. Oh and BTW, NSMB DS ran at 60 FPS. Better looking games than it have run at that too. It's unfair and unwise to use the analogy of Fzero and NSMB and their respective sequels. They have totally different circumstances and looks.
5- As I've said, NSMB DS and Wii look good. But neither game is using anywhere NEAR their respective system's potential. It's rather obvious. I don't even want a DS port, I'm just saying what the deal is. Neither game looks as good as they could. Lost Winds looks far superior to NSMB Wii. And there are DS games that look a lot better than NSMB DS. I won't argue with the sprite pixelation, because that's real. It's beside the point though, since the DS lacks a texture filter like the Wii and has a tinier resolution. And at normal viewing, you can't even see how low poly characters are.
6- The foreground IS prerendered. You can tell easily, they are flat and do not tilt or do anything like normal 3D models do. The background and characters are not 2D. I didn't say they were 2D. And Mario 3 and World didn't have the same art style at all. They were completely different. And different looking. Not anything like NSMB Wii and DS which look quite similar. Again, with your Fzero analogy, it doesn't add up there.
7- The DS could certainly handle a port of this game, but no it wouldn't look as good. Never said it would. Again, you've insulted me several times, which is fine, as long as you don't mind it back. You sound a little butthurt. Suck it up or don't dish it out. I didn't star this.
8- It's not stupid to assume the DS could pull off the same gameplay and most of the same graphics. Games have already done it. Again, you've called me stupid, which is fine, but you are the stupid one, and don't know what the hell you are talking about. I never even said 80% of the things you think I did. Moron.
1- if you can't take it, don't give it. You called people who said the DS could do this game "asinine" and RMC a druggy. So don't get so defensive unless you want to clean your own words up.
2- Go play Donkey Kong Country or Super Mario World and tell me the SNES can't do a dozen sprites at once. The first level in Mario World has like 8 koopas in a line, this is seen more in later levels. The SNES does not suffer from such harsh sprite restrictions as the NES for example. Try playing a game like Tactics Ogre or Ogre Battle. Any of those strategy RPG's. They have MORE than a dozen sprites onscreen at once.
3- I never said NSMB and NSMB Wii look exactly the same. I said firstly that NSMB DS didn't use anywhere near the DS' full power. I also said they look quite similar in style, as they do. And I also said that NSMB Wii is using nowhere near the Wii's full power. I never said they look the same. It is my full belief though that NSMB Wii could be accurately recreated on the DS without much hassle, with only minor graphical changes. None of which you'd likely notice much. There are already similar looking DS games to NSMB Wii.
(keep in mind that here, you called me retarded, after asked me not to call you that. I don't care if you do, but don't complain when I do, hypocrite)
4- I don't believe I ever questioned your knowledge of computer graphics... How did you get that idea? Hm. Interesting you mention Fzero 64. It's yet another game that didn't take near full advantage of the N64's hardware. Fzero 64 looks nothing like Fzero GX in any way. But NSMB on DS and Wii DO look very similar, right down to the level art, character models, and just style. It looks like NSMB DS with better resolution, more characters, and 3D backdrops. Oh and BTW, NSMB DS ran at 60 FPS. Better looking games than it have run at that too. It's unfair and unwise to use the analogy of Fzero and NSMB and their respective sequels. They have totally different circumstances and looks.
5- As I've said, NSMB DS and Wii look good. But neither game is using anywhere NEAR their respective system's potential. It's rather obvious. I don't even want a DS port, I'm just saying what the deal is. Neither game looks as good as they could. Lost Winds looks far superior to NSMB Wii. And there are DS games that look a lot better than NSMB DS. I won't argue with the sprite pixelation, because that's real. It's beside the point though, since the DS lacks a texture filter like the Wii and has a tinier resolution. And at normal viewing, you can't even see how low poly characters are.
6- The foreground IS prerendered. You can tell easily, they are flat and do not tilt or do anything like normal 3D models do. The background and characters are not 2D. I didn't say they were 2D. And Mario 3 and World didn't have the same art style at all. They were completely different. And different looking. Not anything like NSMB Wii and DS which look quite similar. Again, with your Fzero analogy, it doesn't add up there.
7- The DS could certainly handle a port of this game, but no it wouldn't look as good. Never said it would. Again, you've insulted me several times, which is fine, as long as you don't mind it back. You sound a little butthurt. Suck it up or don't dish it out. I didn't star this.
8- It's not stupid to assume the DS could pull off the same gameplay and most of the same graphics. Games have already done it. Again, you've called me stupid, which is fine, but you are the stupid one, and don't know what the hell you are talking about. I never even said 80% of the things you think I did. Moron.
uhhhhh......it's REALLY not that impressive Miyamoto. And it's even less so that you think it speaks to the "power" of the Wii.
First of all, this is bull. The N64 was able to support a zooming camera to compensate for four players at a time in Super Smash Bros. Don't act like this could never have been done before.
@WiiFolder
Yes, how dare the consumer want something that has become a standard in the gaming industry. Too bad Nintendo seems to think it's still 2002.
You know, it's quite possible for a game to have both local AND online multiplayer. Plenty of 360/PS3 games do it.
@WiiFolder
Yes, how dare the consumer want something that has become a standard in the gaming industry. Too bad Nintendo seems to think it's still 2002.
You know, it's quite possible for a game to have both local AND online multiplayer. Plenty of 360/PS3 games do it.
@WiiFolder
Why did you even bring this up?
Regardless of your feelings and opinion on the game, it is actually a deciding factor for some people because the game is advertised as a 4-player game, so those people want 4 player, and they don't grab random people to play just to have 4 people to play.
They want to play online, with their actual friends, without having to gather together at a house when it can be an inconvenience.
Maybe you're cool with Nintendo being 3 years behind in every technological way besides the remote/WM+ and the balance board, but there's really no excuse.
And you act like local gets removed from the game if WiFi is in the game.
Besides that, the main game allows you to come in and drop out at ANY TIME. How would that not be possible in online?
The fact that it is meant for 4 people to play together in a house doesn't mean people don't know anything about game design because they want to play from different houses. I have yet to see you actually explain why this makes sense.
I also can't fathom how you hated Punch-Out for being a lazy title for adding NES controls as a side thing, being built with motion controls/balance board support, and you're defending the hell out of a game that was clearly built with NES controls in mind and thrown in motion controls.
By the logic you gave me that Punch-Out Wii and Punch-Out NES are the same, you could say that Mario 3/World and NSMBW are the same.
You make no sense.
@peristalsis
Considering what he is saying is due to graphical power has been done plenty of times before, it doesn't really matter. He's still talking BS, or the only game he's played with two-player is Sonic 2 or 3.
@Inneverate
With the exception of having 7000 Cheep Cheeps on screen with no slow-down, all the other things have been done before on other systems worse than the Wii's graphics, so I don't know why you pretend you had a point there.
@Krotox
Uhhh... show us where he says this. Whether that's true or not, that's not what he's saying.
In any case, I'm awaiting release.
Why did you even bring this up?
Regardless of your feelings and opinion on the game, it is actually a deciding factor for some people because the game is advertised as a 4-player game, so those people want 4 player, and they don't grab random people to play just to have 4 people to play.
They want to play online, with their actual friends, without having to gather together at a house when it can be an inconvenience.
Maybe you're cool with Nintendo being 3 years behind in every technological way besides the remote/WM+ and the balance board, but there's really no excuse.
And you act like local gets removed from the game if WiFi is in the game.
Besides that, the main game allows you to come in and drop out at ANY TIME. How would that not be possible in online?
The fact that it is meant for 4 people to play together in a house doesn't mean people don't know anything about game design because they want to play from different houses. I have yet to see you actually explain why this makes sense.
I also can't fathom how you hated Punch-Out for being a lazy title for adding NES controls as a side thing, being built with motion controls/balance board support, and you're defending the hell out of a game that was clearly built with NES controls in mind and thrown in motion controls.
By the logic you gave me that Punch-Out Wii and Punch-Out NES are the same, you could say that Mario 3/World and NSMBW are the same.
You make no sense.
@peristalsis
Considering what he is saying is due to graphical power has been done plenty of times before, it doesn't really matter. He's still talking BS, or the only game he's played with two-player is Sonic 2 or 3.
@Inneverate
With the exception of having 7000 Cheep Cheeps on screen with no slow-down, all the other things have been done before on other systems worse than the Wii's graphics, so I don't know why you pretend you had a point there.
@Krotox
Uhhh... show us where he says this. Whether that's true or not, that's not what he's saying.
In any case, I'm awaiting release.
@granville
8 is not a dozen. Also i beleive Devil Rising said dozens (notice the s making dozen plural).
Also go play the forest level of SMW where the bob-ombs are coming in bubbles and popping and theres tons of enemies and stuff. Kind of laggy eh? Especially when you get the star and are moving faster.
Btw, i'm not taking a side to the argument, I don't really have an opinion to which of you are right.
8 is not a dozen. Also i beleive Devil Rising said dozens (notice the s making dozen plural).
Also go play the forest level of SMW where the bob-ombs are coming in bubbles and popping and theres tons of enemies and stuff. Kind of laggy eh? Especially when you get the star and are moving faster.
Btw, i'm not taking a side to the argument, I don't really have an opinion to which of you are right.
@Granville
Okay look dude. Whatever, alright.
You obviously think that the DS could do this game, which it cannot, from a techinical standpoint. At all. Which was my whole point, really.
I absolutely agree that NSMB doesn't tap the systems full potential, and I don't think I ever said that it did. But it doesn't need to. I think it looks fantastic for what it is, and I think that it DOES make great use of the Wii's power in subtle ways, such as the quality of the polygon models, the smoothness of the graphics in general, the superb effects, etc.
And no, I went and played Mario World for awhile tonight just to see if I was wrong, and I'm not. Not that it matters. I've seen video of Mario underwater, with WELL over 12, probably more like close to 20, Cheep Cheep fish on screen, in addition to everything else that was going on. That's impressive to me, even if it's not to anyone else. All I said was there's never been a 2D Mario title with that many enemies on screen at once, along with characters, items, background stuff, etc., all at once.
As for me dishing it out but not taking it, lol.....dude, you called me more names in that last response than I said in any of mine combined. So cool, if that's how you feel, then whatever. It really doesn't matter, but I didn't "start" anything. I made a statement, you were the one who implied I didn't know what the hell I was talking about (which I do, regardless of what you want to portray), and talked to me in general as if I were a complete idiot.
My comment about RMC being on drugs, obviously, was a joke. If you didn't know that, then I'm afraid you're the "moron". I'm sure we will both enjoy this game immensely, so this conversation is retarded. But I stand by my points.
Have a nice night.
Okay look dude. Whatever, alright.
You obviously think that the DS could do this game, which it cannot, from a techinical standpoint. At all. Which was my whole point, really.
I absolutely agree that NSMB doesn't tap the systems full potential, and I don't think I ever said that it did. But it doesn't need to. I think it looks fantastic for what it is, and I think that it DOES make great use of the Wii's power in subtle ways, such as the quality of the polygon models, the smoothness of the graphics in general, the superb effects, etc.
And no, I went and played Mario World for awhile tonight just to see if I was wrong, and I'm not. Not that it matters. I've seen video of Mario underwater, with WELL over 12, probably more like close to 20, Cheep Cheep fish on screen, in addition to everything else that was going on. That's impressive to me, even if it's not to anyone else. All I said was there's never been a 2D Mario title with that many enemies on screen at once, along with characters, items, background stuff, etc., all at once.
As for me dishing it out but not taking it, lol.....dude, you called me more names in that last response than I said in any of mine combined. So cool, if that's how you feel, then whatever. It really doesn't matter, but I didn't "start" anything. I made a statement, you were the one who implied I didn't know what the hell I was talking about (which I do, regardless of what you want to portray), and talked to me in general as if I were a complete idiot.
My comment about RMC being on drugs, obviously, was a joke. If you didn't know that, then I'm afraid you're the "moron". I'm sure we will both enjoy this game immensely, so this conversation is retarded. But I stand by my points.
Have a nice night.
You want the camera to zoom out on the DS screen? NO THANKS. Wait until the DSi LLLLLLLLLLLL arives.
Sorry Miyamoto but that statement is a bit rubbish.
Look at Brawl (or even the previous games), seriously JUST LOOK AT IT.
Those games too support incredibly busy cameras (moreso because the action is faster with people flying all over the place), they too have 4 players and visually Brawl CRUSHES NSMB Wii.
Look at Brawl (or even the previous games), seriously JUST LOOK AT IT.
Those games too support incredibly busy cameras (moreso because the action is faster with people flying all over the place), they too have 4 players and visually Brawl CRUSHES NSMB Wii.
@WiiFolder
This. Mario isn't a FPS... [this is at the VC bit]
And if they'd had online, it wouldn't have been that great [since it would always be compared to the HD systems] and you guys would be complaining about it, so why not just not have it at all?
This. Mario isn't a FPS... [this is at the VC bit]
And if they'd had online, it wouldn't have been that great [since it would always be compared to the HD systems] and you guys would be complaining about it, so why not just not have it at all?
@Chosenoneknuckles
People are going to complain regardless. Online, no online, so that really doesn't matter.
People want it because we don't all have the luxury of being able to hang out with 3 friends every time we want to play a game. That's the whole purpose of having online and *zing* FRIEND codes.
And I fail to see why VC would be bad. It would actually be REQUIRED if this was online. Could you imagine playing this in 4 player and nobody talking and no ways to get other players to help you when you're trying to do something? It would be terrible.
People are going to complain regardless. Online, no online, so that really doesn't matter.
People want it because we don't all have the luxury of being able to hang out with 3 friends every time we want to play a game. That's the whole purpose of having online and *zing* FRIEND codes.
And I fail to see why VC would be bad. It would actually be REQUIRED if this was online. Could you imagine playing this in 4 player and nobody talking and no ways to get other players to help you when you're trying to do something? It would be terrible.
@MoldyClay
I'll slide with you on the online, but not on VC. Sorry, but I only see it being needed in FPS titles [which I'm not a fan of anyway].
It's like that whole 'Excitebots NEEDS VC' all over again [i.e. no it really didn't].
I'll slide with you on the online, but not on VC. Sorry, but I only see it being needed in FPS titles [which I'm not a fan of anyway].
It's like that whole 'Excitebots NEEDS VC' all over again [i.e. no it really didn't].
@Chosenoneknuckles
Yea, but I don't think players were trying to work together in Excitebots. Anyway, I've expressed before that I'd much rather complain about online, than complain about having no online. Complaining really isn't all that terrible, and my or other's complaining wouldn't make me wish this didn't have online.
You know how some people kinda like rail shooters, but don't want to pick them up again after beating them because they aren't their favorite? That's kinda how 2D Mario games (except Super Mario World) are to me. And online was really the only thing that had me excited for this game at E3. I really don't have any reason to be excited for this game now. I don't like the art style, I'll rarely be able to make use of multiplayer, the gameplay is too different from Super Mario World and you can't take Yoshi with you, etc. This might be okay/good as a one time experience, but I'm positive would feel ripped off right after beating it. Unless of course, it had online. I don't even mind playing with random players. But yea, I really can't support this nonsense, and it always baffles me how some people act like I'm the one who needs to change my stance on this whole online ordeal.
Yea, but I don't think players were trying to work together in Excitebots. Anyway, I've expressed before that I'd much rather complain about online, than complain about having no online. Complaining really isn't all that terrible, and my or other's complaining wouldn't make me wish this didn't have online.
You know how some people kinda like rail shooters, but don't want to pick them up again after beating them because they aren't their favorite? That's kinda how 2D Mario games (except Super Mario World) are to me. And online was really the only thing that had me excited for this game at E3. I really don't have any reason to be excited for this game now. I don't like the art style, I'll rarely be able to make use of multiplayer, the gameplay is too different from Super Mario World and you can't take Yoshi with you, etc. This might be okay/good as a one time experience, but I'm positive would feel ripped off right after beating it. Unless of course, it had online. I don't even mind playing with random players. But yea, I really can't support this nonsense, and it always baffles me how some people act like I'm the one who needs to change my stance on this whole online ordeal.
@Inneverate
It's irrelevant if the background graphics are in 3D or not, they could just convert them to 2D for DS and the game would be just as fun and look _pretty_much_ the same. I said some graphical fidelity would need to be sacrificed in order to get it to run on DS, but it's very possible (or rather, it started on DS with NSMB and when they moved to Wii with the sequel they could improve the graphics, however you like to look at it).. Hell, they could make everything 2D sprites and it would play exactly the same and most people wouldn't even notice.
Regarding the Cheep Cheeps, I think that's a case of optimization. We have seen games on the DS with that many or more sprites on screen at once without hiccups, so it really comes down to finetuning the code and using the right technique to achieve the effect (2D sprites instead of full 3D characters, for example). I love Miyamoto and it's always interesting to listen to what the man has to say but in this case I think he was misinterpreted or expressed himself unclearly.
In short, the graphics are not in 3D and more complex because they have to be, they are like that because they could afford it with the additional horsepower in Wii. If they wanted it on DS instead, believe me they could do it.
It's irrelevant if the background graphics are in 3D or not, they could just convert them to 2D for DS and the game would be just as fun and look _pretty_much_ the same. I said some graphical fidelity would need to be sacrificed in order to get it to run on DS, but it's very possible (or rather, it started on DS with NSMB and when they moved to Wii with the sequel they could improve the graphics, however you like to look at it).. Hell, they could make everything 2D sprites and it would play exactly the same and most people wouldn't even notice.
Regarding the Cheep Cheeps, I think that's a case of optimization. We have seen games on the DS with that many or more sprites on screen at once without hiccups, so it really comes down to finetuning the code and using the right technique to achieve the effect (2D sprites instead of full 3D characters, for example). I love Miyamoto and it's always interesting to listen to what the man has to say but in this case I think he was misinterpreted or expressed himself unclearly.
In short, the graphics are not in 3D and more complex because they have to be, they are like that because they could afford it with the additional horsepower in Wii. If they wanted it on DS instead, believe me they could do it.
I never noticed any lag in SMW with a lot of characters on screen. That was another game that didn't push the system much. If you want a game that pushed the SNES pretty seriously, play Donkey Kong Country. And that game did have a stage with around a dozen enemies onscreen at once, not to mention bananas and other sprites. No lag either.
And Innervate, yes you did start it. You're trying to get out of it, but it's obvious to anyone here what your words said. You called several people morons, RMC a druggy (it didn't look like a joke to anyone else), and just your tone was aggressive. I am not denying any name calling on my end, so don't say I'm not. But you started this worthless fight, so don't try to pin it on anyone else.
With only slight modifications, this game could EASILY be made on DS. There are several ways it could be made an keep most of the graphics and gameplay intact. Firstly, the screen doesn't need to zoom out as far as it does on the Wii game. That is possible, but you would lose some detail from the small DS screen. However, this is an unnecessary feature, considering you can have 4 seperate DS screens. In fact, we have 8 seperate screens. The top one can show YOUR character's position, the bottom one can show info on the other 3 players and their positions. It would be very intuitive that way and make more sense in fact.
Secondly, If they just upped the cartridge space, the prerendered stuff can look far better with a lot of frames of animation (like the DKC games). The you can't even tell it's not 3D, especially with the rotating and scaling. All items and enemies can be prerendered, leaving the 4 players 3D. No lag there. The DS has proven itself with heavy sprite games like the Castlevanias. There are upwards of 30 enemies onscreen with that game. Other games have had even more. The 3D backdrops can stay, those have been done a lot on DS. Then again, they could make ALL objects prerendered and it wouldn't even look much different from the Wii game. It wouldn't suffer from the low poly count. Prerendered only takes up more space, it doesn't take any toll on modern day systems.
And Innervate, yes you did start it. You're trying to get out of it, but it's obvious to anyone here what your words said. You called several people morons, RMC a druggy (it didn't look like a joke to anyone else), and just your tone was aggressive. I am not denying any name calling on my end, so don't say I'm not. But you started this worthless fight, so don't try to pin it on anyone else.
With only slight modifications, this game could EASILY be made on DS. There are several ways it could be made an keep most of the graphics and gameplay intact. Firstly, the screen doesn't need to zoom out as far as it does on the Wii game. That is possible, but you would lose some detail from the small DS screen. However, this is an unnecessary feature, considering you can have 4 seperate DS screens. In fact, we have 8 seperate screens. The top one can show YOUR character's position, the bottom one can show info on the other 3 players and their positions. It would be very intuitive that way and make more sense in fact.
Secondly, If they just upped the cartridge space, the prerendered stuff can look far better with a lot of frames of animation (like the DKC games). The you can't even tell it's not 3D, especially with the rotating and scaling. All items and enemies can be prerendered, leaving the 4 players 3D. No lag there. The DS has proven itself with heavy sprite games like the Castlevanias. There are upwards of 30 enemies onscreen with that game. Other games have had even more. The 3D backdrops can stay, those have been done a lot on DS. Then again, they could make ALL objects prerendered and it wouldn't even look much different from the Wii game. It wouldn't suffer from the low poly count. Prerendered only takes up more space, it doesn't take any toll on modern day systems.
LOL not even sure that i need to say anything more...
are you kidding me?
actually i can't stand that zoom in zoom out crap. i hate it when it zooms out so much that the characters look like tiny ants. they do that crap in every major game and it's annoying. i hate it.
are you kidding me?
actually i can't stand that zoom in zoom out crap. i hate it when it zooms out so much that the characters look like tiny ants. they do that crap in every major game and it's annoying. i hate it.
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I mean since SSB days there's been zooming out of a camera if multiple players are far apart. There were probably even games in the SNES/Genesis era that did some similar scaling to accommodate more than one player.
Nothing wrong with the idea but it's certainly nothing new under the sun.
Either way I really can't wait for the game.