more
November 20, 2009 by The News Team
Filed Under: Nintendo in general
“I don’t think everything needs to be 3D, or that just because we’re seeing more 2D games now, that everything’s going to shift back to 2D. Instead, I think that what’s going on is that people are realizing the benefits of a 3D game, and at the same time, remembering what the benefits of 2D games were. When going 2D, you need the courage to not be so attached to visual appearance of the games and to really pursue the gameplay experience.” - Shigeru Miyamoto
I don't care who the developer is, it's always nice to hear someone talk about game development first and graphics second. Isn't it funny how 2d games used to be the big deal back in the day, but now these types of titles are considered to be a risk? Thanks to MCV for the heads up!
Story Feedback
Miyamoto if you're so into 2D where the hell is my FSA for Wii/DS with DS to Wii connectivity like the FF game that came out for both platforms a while ago? Seriously drop Zelda Wii and get working on it!
Oh no, not a FSA Wii please!
I want a non-linear New The Legend of Zelda Wii, like the first LoZ!
I want The Legend of Zelda 4!
I want a non-linear New The Legend of Zelda Wii, like the first LoZ!
I want The Legend of Zelda 4!
one generation I want both 3D and 2D of each Nintendo franchise on one console. Ones that can go both like
Mario
Donkey Kong
Metroid
Kid Icarus
Zelda
Wario
Mario
Donkey Kong
Metroid
Kid Icarus
Zelda
Wario
@mariomaniac45213
I'd rather not have a 2D Zelda, Starfox, and Pikmin.
Kirby, Donkey Kong, Mario, and Metroid are okay though.
I'd rather not have a 2D Zelda, Starfox, and Pikmin.
Kirby, Donkey Kong, Mario, and Metroid are okay though.
Another golden comment from Miyamoto that I agree with strongly.
2D is still very relevant, and can also be very impressive in it's own right (see Boy and His Blob and Muramasa: TDB). Some games are just better in 2D - not to say they are bad in 3D, they're just different.
I look at NSMB Wii and Super Mario Galaxy as an example. Both are outstanding regardless of the the graphical implementation. Galaxy fully utilized 3D for some amazing level designs, and NSMB Wii perfectly defines how excellent 2D platforming can be.
The idea that graphical representation can or should bring about extinction of certain types of games has never appealed to me. It's good to see a prominent member of the development community cast a positive light on 2D gaming at this point in gaming history when games are nearing CG quality in real-time and are continually pushing for higher costs and less risk prone designs.
2D is still very relevant, and can also be very impressive in it's own right (see Boy and His Blob and Muramasa: TDB). Some games are just better in 2D - not to say they are bad in 3D, they're just different.
I look at NSMB Wii and Super Mario Galaxy as an example. Both are outstanding regardless of the the graphical implementation. Galaxy fully utilized 3D for some amazing level designs, and NSMB Wii perfectly defines how excellent 2D platforming can be.
The idea that graphical representation can or should bring about extinction of certain types of games has never appealed to me. It's good to see a prominent member of the development community cast a positive light on 2D gaming at this point in gaming history when games are nearing CG quality in real-time and are continually pushing for higher costs and less risk prone designs.
@mariomaniac45213
Mario and Metroid are getting that treatment already. (Other M is 2.5D, right?) Zelda could get a 2D game since there's already a 3D game coming out. But that's about it, because the rest of the franchises are more necessary in their respective dimensions. (Kirby for 2D. Star Fox and F-Zero for 3D) So don't you think you're just asking a bit too much?
Mario and Metroid are getting that treatment already. (Other M is 2.5D, right?) Zelda could get a 2D game since there's already a 3D game coming out. But that's about it, because the rest of the franchises are more necessary in their respective dimensions. (Kirby for 2D. Star Fox and F-Zero for 3D) So don't you think you're just asking a bit too much?
@Roflinator
You forgot Donkey Kong
Donkey kong 64 sequal and
Donkey kong Country sequal
Kid Icarus reinvent that series. oh and Wario like Wario world 2 and Wario Land 6
You forgot Donkey Kong
Donkey kong 64 sequal and
Donkey kong Country sequal
Kid Icarus reinvent that series. oh and Wario like Wario world 2 and Wario Land 6
More 2D games would be nice, as Miyamoto said, the gameplay gets more focus that way.
Also 2-d games take up less data then 3-d if they actually tried they could make games much longer then 3-d games.
@DonnyDarko420
Actually, Star Fox has always been in 3D. The original game was the big showcase title for the Super FX Chip on the SNES, which showed that polygonal 3D was possible on the system and not just pseudo-3D like Mode 7.
Anyway, I agree with Miyamoto.
Actually, Star Fox has always been in 3D. The original game was the big showcase title for the Super FX Chip on the SNES, which showed that polygonal 3D was possible on the system and not just pseudo-3D like Mode 7.
Anyway, I agree with Miyamoto.
Well Nintendo's handhelds have always been a showcase for 2D games, while consoles progressed to more realistic 3D graphics.
I know Miyamoto, I Know! Moar 2d games please. Oh and moar quick save.
Bought New Super Mario Bros and Muramasa yesterday, the game I bought before that was Lost Winds 2... That's 3 2D planes in a row!
Bought New Super Mario Bros and Muramasa yesterday, the game I bought before that was Lost Winds 2... That's 3 2D planes in a row!
NSMBWii is the only 2D game I have truly enjoyed on Wii. The rest in my opinion have been a waste and felt totally out of date despite prettier visuals.
"NSMBWii is the only 2D game I have truly enjoyed on Wii. The rest in my opinion have been a waste and felt totally out of date despite prettier visuals."
Excitebike World Rally is pretty good. So is Contra Rebirth, even though it's too short. Oh, and Wario Land is really good too.
Excitebike World Rally is pretty good. So is Contra Rebirth, even though it's too short. Oh, and Wario Land is really good too.
@WiiFolder
A Boy and His Blob/Muramasa/WarioLand/Super Paper Mario really have been a 'waste?'
We don't see eye to eye in that regard, I'm afraid.
A Boy and His Blob/Muramasa/WarioLand/Super Paper Mario really have been a 'waste?'
We don't see eye to eye in that regard, I'm afraid.
@nintycool
Square-Enix actually created that technology though. So Square would have to make the FS game.
@Astram
So you want 3D Dot Game Heroes?
@Roflinator
Technically, the DS Zeldas are top-down view, making them the same as the 2D Zelda games on other handhelds.
@WiiFolder
I thought you DIDN'T like it that much?
And I honestly don't know what makes Mario more fresh and less out of date, given it being pretty much exactly the same as NES titles.
Square-Enix actually created that technology though. So Square would have to make the FS game.
@Astram
So you want 3D Dot Game Heroes?
@Roflinator
Technically, the DS Zeldas are top-down view, making them the same as the 2D Zelda games on other handhelds.
@WiiFolder
I thought you DIDN'T like it that much?
And I honestly don't know what makes Mario more fresh and less out of date, given it being pretty much exactly the same as NES titles.
@MoldyClay
Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Sunshine say hi. They were unique games that spiced up the whole "hop-n-bop" formula.
Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Sunshine say hi. They were unique games that spiced up the whole "hop-n-bop" formula.
Super Mario Galaxy and Sunshine and 64 for that matter are collect-a-thons
he is wrong obviously , every game need to be a fps with a deep story line filled with plenty of script elements that are absolutetly not boring if the player see them twice.
so many ideas on nsmb wii , i am well shocked , i guess i didn't though they were so many things left to add. And even specific wiimote action . oh really that's a fantastic game They created so many standards ,
oh and zelda four swords addon to the next zelda wii please !! some 2d game on wii and ds at the same time , please!!
so many ideas on nsmb wii , i am well shocked , i guess i didn't though they were so many things left to add. And even specific wiimote action . oh really that's a fantastic game They created so many standards ,
oh and zelda four swords addon to the next zelda wii please !! some 2d game on wii and ds at the same time , please!!
2D > 3D, any day of the week.
Sorry graphics whores. It's true.
Even as much as I loved, and I do mean LOVED games like Twilight Princess, or Pikmin, or Okami, or Mario Galaxy, or Eternal Darkness, Chibi Robo, etc....
Not a single one of them has made me feel the way that NSMB Wii, or Super Paper Mario or Wario Land have. Those games are nostalgic, in a GOOD way, and take me back to my childhood, for sure. Not to mention that I can pick up and play any of the old classics, like Mega Man 2, or SMB3, or Kirby's Adventure, or whatever, pretty much any time, and have a blast.
The same cannot be said, at least for me, with 99% of 3D games. I usually play them, beat them, and then rarely ever touch them again. Not so with the 2D classics. And I seriously doubt I'm gonna stop play NSMB Wii anytime within the next several months. Game is an absolute pleasure to play. Even IF some of the levels are downright devious.
Sorry graphics whores. It's true.
Even as much as I loved, and I do mean LOVED games like Twilight Princess, or Pikmin, or Okami, or Mario Galaxy, or Eternal Darkness, Chibi Robo, etc....
Not a single one of them has made me feel the way that NSMB Wii, or Super Paper Mario or Wario Land have. Those games are nostalgic, in a GOOD way, and take me back to my childhood, for sure. Not to mention that I can pick up and play any of the old classics, like Mega Man 2, or SMB3, or Kirby's Adventure, or whatever, pretty much any time, and have a blast.
The same cannot be said, at least for me, with 99% of 3D games. I usually play them, beat them, and then rarely ever touch them again. Not so with the 2D classics. And I seriously doubt I'm gonna stop play NSMB Wii anytime within the next several months. Game is an absolute pleasure to play. Even IF some of the levels are downright devious.
@internet
4 Swords would have been a badass concept, if it hadn't included the incredibly short-sighted "need to have 3 GBAs to play" nonsense. Totally turned me off to even trying to play it.
Otherwise, 2D Zelda > almost everything.
4 Swords would have been a badass concept, if it hadn't included the incredibly short-sighted "need to have 3 GBAs to play" nonsense. Totally turned me off to even trying to play it.
Otherwise, 2D Zelda > almost everything.
@thisboywillbreak
Hullo thar HD Man. Might I direct you in the direction of Braid?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqtSKkyJgFM
2D and awesome. (I understand the reason why you own a Wii, but why is it every time I see posts by you it sounds like you're thiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to sounding like an HD fanboy who just likes trolling Nintendo sites?)
Hullo thar HD Man. Might I direct you in the direction of Braid?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqtSKkyJgFM
2D and awesome. (I understand the reason why you own a Wii, but why is it every time I see posts by you it sounds like you're thiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to sounding like an HD fanboy who just likes trolling Nintendo sites?)
@Devil_Rising
There is no way for them to develop 4 swords without requiring 4 GBAs....
Everybody obviously needs one so you can go under ground, into houses and so on.
There is no way for them to develop 4 swords without requiring 4 GBAs....
Everybody obviously needs one so you can go under ground, into houses and so on.
@someone17
My guess is that he really wants Golden Sun on the Wii, but with beautiful handdrawn graphics. If so then I can't blame him, I just imagined that in my head and almost had a nerdgasm.
My guess is that he really wants Golden Sun on the Wii, but with beautiful handdrawn graphics. If so then I can't blame him, I just imagined that in my head and almost had a nerdgasm.
@Devil_Rising
That's nice.
Resident Evil 4 was a GC time exclusive and not only did that game push the bar graphically for the GC....it also encouraged multiple replays to the POINT where people tried game specific playthroughs (Only Knife for example).
Sure other REs can be pushed their limit, but RE4 was eye-candy and a 3D game.
It's also VERY memorable not only for the gameplay revolution (invented the modern 3rd person shooter genre) but also because of the classic cheesy lines. Lines that are up there with SOTN's script.
How about StarFox 64? That pushed the N64 and it introduced rumble. It also had its fair share of cheesy lines. Memorable 3D game, you getting the picture yet?
You are very shallow-minded.
My opinion of course is different than yours but I like my 3D games just as much as my 2D games and not just because of nostalgia.
=)
That's nice.
Resident Evil 4 was a GC time exclusive and not only did that game push the bar graphically for the GC....it also encouraged multiple replays to the POINT where people tried game specific playthroughs (Only Knife for example).
Sure other REs can be pushed their limit, but RE4 was eye-candy and a 3D game.
It's also VERY memorable not only for the gameplay revolution (invented the modern 3rd person shooter genre) but also because of the classic cheesy lines. Lines that are up there with SOTN's script.
How about StarFox 64? That pushed the N64 and it introduced rumble. It also had its fair share of cheesy lines. Memorable 3D game, you getting the picture yet?
You are very shallow-minded.
My opinion of course is different than yours but I like my 3D games just as much as my 2D games and not just because of nostalgia.
=)
Ah, for once Miyamoto says something I can fully agree with. It's been awhile, Miyamoto. Just when I thought you just might had lost your mind with a few recent comments in the last year or so.
I enjoy a good balance of 2D and 3D myself. Old and new. On all platforms.
I enjoy a good balance of 2D and 3D myself. Old and new. On all platforms.
Don't diss the graphics in all this. 2D for the Wii's greatest advantage is that you can be visually superior than you can in 3D.
Frankly, the only Wii games I want to be 3D at this point are like.. StarFox, Zelda, and Galaxy 2. Everything else (first party) should be 2D. It just looks lightyears better! Muramasa, Wario, Boy and his Blob...
Still not sure about Metroid Other M's gameplay graphics... but the cinematics, of course, are gorgeous. I can only fantasize about 'Super Metroid HD' or whatever - actually, I hope Dread would be stylized like that. 2D, artsy, dark and scary.. I'll settle for WiiWare?
Sigh.
Kid Icarus would be lovely as an artsy 2D game too..
Frankly, the only Wii games I want to be 3D at this point are like.. StarFox, Zelda, and Galaxy 2. Everything else (first party) should be 2D. It just looks lightyears better! Muramasa, Wario, Boy and his Blob...
Still not sure about Metroid Other M's gameplay graphics... but the cinematics, of course, are gorgeous. I can only fantasize about 'Super Metroid HD' or whatever - actually, I hope Dread would be stylized like that. 2D, artsy, dark and scary.. I'll settle for WiiWare?
Sigh.
Kid Icarus would be lovely as an artsy 2D game too..
@Devil_Rising
Agreed, we can have both styles.
To me, 2D and stylize 3D seem to look better over the years for me than realistic 3D.
Agreed, we can have both styles.
To me, 2D and stylize 3D seem to look better over the years for me than realistic 3D.
I agree with Miyamoto. Then again I always felt that 2D always had a place in gaming even after Sony used their weight to enforce 3D as the dominant medium during the Playstation and PS2 era.
also i agree with Pichi I tend to favor stylized games over the "uncanny valley" of realistic graphics. You tend to notice that realistic graphics are often dated quickly after their release due to the limitations of technology.
also i agree with Pichi I tend to favor stylized games over the "uncanny valley" of realistic graphics. You tend to notice that realistic graphics are often dated quickly after their release due to the limitations of technology.
"I hope this means we'll see more 2D zelda and metroid in the future."
Well, both Spirit Tracks and Metroid Other M are technically in a 2D presentation most of the time. It's just that, like with New Super Mario Bros., characters and levels are drawn in 3D.
Developers seem to use sprites with WiiWare titles, although this is not always the case.
Well, both Spirit Tracks and Metroid Other M are technically in a 2D presentation most of the time. It's just that, like with New Super Mario Bros., characters and levels are drawn in 3D.
Developers seem to use sprites with WiiWare titles, although this is not always the case.
You're a bit late realizing this yourself, Miyamoto...but better late than never.
I don't care which D a game is as long as it's actually good.
@MoldyClay
If you're referring to the Main Mario series, then Super Mario Galaxy and Sunshine pretty much answers your question.
@MoldyClay
If you're referring to the Main Mario series, then Super Mario Galaxy and Sunshine pretty much answers your question.
2D games can still look fantastic you know.
That is the problem I have with NSMBWii.
That is the problem I have with NSMBWii.
@MrBubbles
What the hell are you talking about?
Shallow minded?
I didn't say 3D was crap, did I?
Sorry to hurt your feelings there bud, but all I said was 2D games own 3D games.
I said nothing about graphics pushing a system, or ANYTHING like that. So you're going off on a tangent that I said nothing about. Good job.
I happen to like a LOT of 3D games, smart guy. But every single one of my FAVORITE all-time games, are classic 2D games. And as I said, it's those self same 2D classics that I, personally, can pick up at ANY TIME and play them again, and have fun. Most 3D games, from Playstation/N64 onward, have been good for one solid playthrough, and then you don't really want to touch them again. Not ALL, but most. Sorry, but it's the truth, at least in my experience, not just with myself, but with most gamers I know.
In fact, it's the 3D generation that has bred the concept of buying a game, beating it, and trading it in towards a new game. You wouldn't see too many people trading in classics like SMB3 or Kirby's Adventure or Castlevania, unless they were HELLA dumb. Why? Because these games were marvelously crafted pieces of work, and have seemingly endless replayability.
So anyways.....thanks for your input.
But calling me shallow, for liking classic gaming over modern games, only makes YOU look pretty damn stupid.
Good day.
What the hell are you talking about?
Shallow minded?
I didn't say 3D was crap, did I?
Sorry to hurt your feelings there bud, but all I said was 2D games own 3D games.
I said nothing about graphics pushing a system, or ANYTHING like that. So you're going off on a tangent that I said nothing about. Good job.
I happen to like a LOT of 3D games, smart guy. But every single one of my FAVORITE all-time games, are classic 2D games. And as I said, it's those self same 2D classics that I, personally, can pick up at ANY TIME and play them again, and have fun. Most 3D games, from Playstation/N64 onward, have been good for one solid playthrough, and then you don't really want to touch them again. Not ALL, but most. Sorry, but it's the truth, at least in my experience, not just with myself, but with most gamers I know.
In fact, it's the 3D generation that has bred the concept of buying a game, beating it, and trading it in towards a new game. You wouldn't see too many people trading in classics like SMB3 or Kirby's Adventure or Castlevania, unless they were HELLA dumb. Why? Because these games were marvelously crafted pieces of work, and have seemingly endless replayability.
So anyways.....thanks for your input.
But calling me shallow, for liking classic gaming over modern games, only makes YOU look pretty damn stupid.
Good day.
@Dr_Peace
Well then, that's a downright interesting problem you have there.
Because last time I checked (just a few hours ago in fact), NSMB Wii WAS a fantastic looking game.
Well then, that's a downright interesting problem you have there.
Because last time I checked (just a few hours ago in fact), NSMB Wii WAS a fantastic looking game.
Please log in using your message board account to post feeback.
Don't have an account? Click here to register!
Don't have an account? Click here to register!
I'm really enjoying this 2D trend that is surfacing even if the overall experience of some games don't live up to the standards of old.