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A portion of an Iwata asks feature on New Super Mario Bros. Wii...
Iwata: Ever since Mario Bros., you've had your heart set on making a multiplayer Mario game. You've tried each time, but it's never quite come together… Even with Mario 64, it started with Mario and Luigi running around together, didn't it?
Miyamoto: That's right. The screen was split and they went into the castle separately. When they meet in the corridor, I was incredibly happy! (laughs) Then there was also the mode where the camera is fixed and we see Mario running away, steadily getting smaller and smaller.
Iwata: Yes, that's right.
Miyamoto: That was a remnant of an experiment we did where Mario and Luigi would run away from each other but you could still see them both. But we were unable to pull it off…
Iwata: The idea of having multiplayer mode in Mario is one you've worked on for many years. How were you finally able to realize it this time round?
Miyamoto: We owe it all to Wii's processing power. The CPU is much faster than anything we've worked with before, its graphical capabilities are advanced and it has a large amount of memory.
Iwata: So your longstanding dream has finally been realized on Wii.
Miyamoto: Yes, it has.
Story Feedback
More like the entire first two pages (and that's just so far).
Eh, in the end it's RMC's decision, he can do whatever he wants!
And if they made it all one post you all would be b**** about how long the post is. lose lose for them.
Also, Miyamoto is full of crap regarding NSMBW being multiplayer from the start.
Or at least, when designing levels.
NSMBW's levels are so clearly NOT designed for multiplayer.
Anyway, this is a really fascinating interview, but please, one article is enough.
Obviously, what he was saying was, that they haven't had a CPU quite as powerful as Wii to work with till now. So Miyamoto couldn't fully implement his idea, which was 2-4 player Mario, co-op. He's wanted to do this since the NES era, he said so. And again, as I've pointed out before, when you take into account the smoothness, crispness, detail and quality of the animation, constant 60 fps, with 4 players on screen and so much going on, with cameras zooming in and out, yeah, that's pretty impressive.
No, graphically, it's not "Assassin's Creed II" impressive, but hey, we're talking about a 2D Mario game. In THAT context, yes, it's impressive. And it's awesome.
So yeah, they're full of crap here. They say the same kind of crap with NSMB Wii. Mario Galaxy is the only game I'd credit them with by saying it couldn't be done on a weaker system.
I understand it wouldn't have been possible to create a game with the same level of graphical quality as NSMBW, but saying a 2-4 player side-scroller with the same kind of gameplay would've been impossible on the N64 is just silly. Miyamoto finally got his multiplayer dreams realized, but it could've been done 10 years ago if they had thought of it back then.
Bad comparison, a launch title to a title at the end of the 64s lifespan that used the expansion cart.
@Loginer
You're missing the point of the N64. It was trying something new. (3d gaming)
You're not taking into account that the multiplayer in Conker was limited death match type levels. It's not as if you could play two-player co-op through the whole damn game. I think that's what he's getting at, is that it was "impossible" on the N64, especially considering Mario 64 was basically their FIRST experiment into true 3D, to do everything they managed to do in that game, AND have split-screen multiplayer, where characters could go their own way, could be playing completely separate levels at the same time. If you'd read the whole article, that's what he was actually saying.
Also, I'm sorry, but I really don't get the criticisms. No offense, but how many games have any of us developed, designed, etc.? How many of us have had to work with hardware specs, hardware limitations, etc? How many of us have made a commercial game, or any game period? Miyamoto and Iwata have both been making games for the better part of 3 decades, and a lot of those games just so happen to be some of the most influential, most widely recognized and successful games of all time. So yeah, I'd say a guy like Miyamoto probably deserves the benefit of the doubt, when it comes to KNOWING what he's talking about.
This is part of the thing I really hate about the attitude of modern gamers in this internet age. When I was growing up, you bought or rented games when you had money, if they were good, you enjoyed them, you tried to master them, you moved on to the next game, etc. And that was that. This sense of cynicism and self-entitlement that a lot of younger gamers have nowadays really kind of ticks me off. Like I said before, I think a guy like Shigeru Freaking Miyamoto knows what he's talking about when it comes to developing video games. He IS the "Godfather of Gaming" after all. So if he says that he tried to impliment this type of multiplayer in other Mario games and couldn't, I think he probably knows what he's talking about. Assuming that he's lying, exaggerating to make himself look good, or worse, doesn't actually have a clue what's he's talking about, is pretty stupid, not to mention insulting to the guy that has been making games that all of us have enjoyed for the last several decades.
I'm not directing those comments at any of you specifically. Just in general. It's not a matter of "nothing Nintendo does is wrong", so don't even go there. That meme isn't even applicable in this situation anyway. We're just discussing whether or not a guy that pretty much single handedly saved the video game business, actually knows what he's saying when he talks about the development process and hardware limitations. And I call BS on people thinking the guy is full of it, when he's just relating his experiences. In a contest between his game development knowledge, and any of ours, I'd have to give him the edge.
He gave us a bad ass game. So go enjoy it already.
As for "working under constraints of hardware", yeah I know what it's like and such. But the reason we're complaining about it was that there were other games on the respective systems that show that you can do what he's talking about.
I'll give an example of a 2 player game which had complete multiplayer co op- Kirby Super Star (and the DS remake). You can play through the entire game with a friend like NSMB Wii. That was also on SNES originally. There's also games like Double Dragon, and Battletoads which are on NES which let you play through the entire game with two people. Can't be too hard to allow 4-player.
It's not a bad comparison at all, especially since we're only talking about 2 player multiplayer not even using any of Conker's amazing lighting, shadows, animation, or detail. And Conker does not use the expansion pack. It neither requires it, nor is there any benefit from using it. It gets by with whatever the N64 can do, and only relies on its large cartridge space to look amazing. Mario 64 was on an 8MB cartridge, and that was the smallest of the N64 games. They could have easily used a larger cartridge, like almost every other N64 game out there (even cheap bad ones).
Honestly, multiplayer is not hard to code in or even demanding for a system to handle, especially for fewer players. Luigi was likely just a Mario clone with a different model, just controlled via player 2. Split screen can be found in some of the simplest games, even from the 16 bit era. Mario Kart 64 launched almost alongside the N64, and had multiplayer for 4 players split screen. Late or early games have nothing to do with programmer laziness or rushed out products. One reason Mario 64 didn't have multiplayer was likely because they wanted to rush it out to coincide with the N64's launch. And you'll notice that they rarely have an original Mario game which releases alongside a new system anymore. It can even take a year or more to get that game with the system you purchased.
And you need to realize i'm not bashing ANY of his games, just his comments. He put himself up to being criticized with putting out complete lies or whatnot. I'm perfectly satisfied with the games, I'll just call out whoever says something ignorant. The most famous people on earth are not perfect. They are subject to criticism.
Most of THIS.
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
@Adanac
No, Conker did NOT use the N64 expansion pack at all. It was just awesome, plain and simple.
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Various games (namely by Rare, who dominated the system) were miles more advanced than Super Mario 64 and had multiplayer elements in a large field of play (Conker, Banjo Tooie, Jet Force Gemini to name but a few).
If Miyamoto said that his team didn't have the knowledge and time to implement it, or that Super Mario 64 didn't suit multiplayer gaming then I might agree.
Either way, NSMBWii is simple as all hell, and could have been made on the N64.
There must be something about the Wii's capabilities we don't quite grasp yet. I mean, it's Miyamoto!
if you don't like the game (nsmbw), just say so. but to say you know more about the hardware limitations of wii than him (miyamoto) is just plain ignorant. even developers today are still learning from nintendo what one can do with the wii hardware, especially on the control side. i think a lot of people in here are too full of themselves and talking out of their as*.
I will tell you that their comment about Mario 64 not being able to handle multiplayer is complete bullshit, regardless of what they say. We've already given proof of this fact. It was laziness or lack of know-how. Who knows? A lie nonetheless. The same goes for what they said about NSMB Wii's multiplayer only being capable on the Wii. Foolishness. It has been done before on far simpler consoles. As I said, even NES and SNES games had this kind of multiplayer.
And as for credentials, we don't claim to have any. We are just calling out a person with common sense. It's actually quite simple. When there are games on weaker systems which have already succeeded in doing the things they say weren't possible, it's hard to take them seriously.
No one dislikes NSMB Wii. We're simply correcting lies and just stupid statements. We do seem to know more about Wii's hardware than he does too. Or then again, it's very possible and also believable that he just said this stuff so stupid people would think the Wii was better and more powerful than it is. IE- propaganda and spin. It has been done before, so many times in fact that it's uncountable. It's easy to tell a lie to people who are ignorant and get by with it. Politicians do it all the time, as do salesmen. Miyamoto is a business man. His main goal is to make money, not make people happy and tell the truth.
Just saying, Miyamoto, Iwata, Aonuma, Sakurai, and the old RARE developers all have this in common. They've directly worked on the systems and know what the limitations of each were. I don't remember Banjo-Tooie or Conker having CO-OP IN THE SINGLE PLAYER MODE, and one that allowed you to go to two different worlds at the same time. Yes Perfect Dark had co-op (I actually don't remember, did JFG have it? I really don't remember), but it's not a platformer and plus both players were restricted to playing the same level. Also, the framerate in Perfect Dark is actually not very good when you look back at it today, and co-op really only made it worse (I should know, I've played it with my brother before).
I'm sure Miyamoto himself tested the idea and he most likely ran into problems during the testing. Would you release a game with multiplayer that's unfinished?
Short and to the point version: none of us here know what the hell these systems limitations were, so stop talking like you actually developed for the N64 when it was around (or that you develop for the Wii now). Show me a video of an N64 platformer you made that had two player co-op allowing players to visit two different worlds at once, AND without major framerate lag and then maybe I'll take you seriously.
That was Miaymoto's goal for the two player in Mario 64, not NSMBWii. Well with split screen anyway, he also says there was a camera option for it to be focused on both players and adjust depending on how far one player got from the camera.
I don't think it needs to be said that there is a difference between a 2D platformer as opposed to a 3D one with free roaming aspects.
Exactly. I would also like to add that Miyamoto is an artist (that's how he got the job) and a designer, he has NEVER coded a game and certainly isn't the guy from Nintendo that goes to these American companies for components.
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@Eternal Rain
What Miyamoto is saying is that NSMBWii was impossible before the Wii. Just looking at the game can tell you it's bull, considering what Smash Bros and various multiplayer games have achieved before.
Visiting two worlds at once, where did you even get that from? NSMBWii doesn't even come close to such functionality, that is MMO territory.
LOL Dude......
I'm willing to bet money that not a single person I've ever talked to on this website has ever been a game developer, or designer. Ever.
Why would I say that? Because why would a serious game developer/designer, be wasting their time trolling a video game forum, when they could be busy making awesome games themselves? Also, I'd like to think that anyone who has ever SERIOUSLY had any involvment in real game development, would have enough respect for a master like Miyamoto, to trust that he probably knows his s**t.
Besides, comparing the co-op play of Smash Bros., which still has it's issues, to the seemless co-op play of NSMBWii, is kind of pointless. The only Smash installment that comes close, is Brawl. And that of course, was done on, you guessed it, Wii hardware.
@Dr_Peace
And as for you, "Dr. Peace", I'm sorry, but can you read? Or have you been living under a rock for the last 20 years? Miyamoto has been THE man at Nintendo since the late 1970s. He designed the NES, SNES, and N64 controllers. He designed the look of the consoles. And he says himself, right there in the interview, that since the DS, he has become much more intimately involved in the creation of the hardware. I.E. he pretty much created the core ideas of the DS and the Wii himself. The touch screen, the Wii-mote, that's all him.
I would also imagine, considering that at the very least, he is usually credited as the executive producer of almost all Nintendo published games, and that he actually does produce or even direct quite a number of them still, that he would most likely NEED to have a pretty solid knowledge of the hardware specs that they're working with, the limitations they're working with, so that he can know what the team will be able to do or not do within a given game.
And finally, again, he said it RIGHT THERE IN THE INTERVIEW, that his original idea for 2 player Mario 64, was to have the characters have the ability to operate independently from one another. Split screen, as in not just in the same level. And yes, that would have been fairly impossible.
I'm sorry, but you guys taking Miyamoto to task over his comments is both funny and sad at the same time. He has every reason in the world to be given the benefit of the doubt as to actually knowing what he's talking about. And none of you have any grounds whatsoever to be "calling him out" on anything. In fact, none of you would say any of this type of s**t to his face, given the fantasy scenario that you were actually able to meet the guy.
This goes for any business man. It's a simple matter of telling people something in order to get them to buy or want something. Interviews like this are also not as subject to quality control standards as a TV commercial would be. They can get by saying mostly anything they want without being hassled. And they will say whatever they want, regardless of truth. It's all part of the hype machine.
And as I said before, you don't need to be an official game developer to know how to code properly. Some amateurs can outdo the big dogs. Indy devs and such. It's hardly going to help you by bashing these people anyways, considering you can simply take on look at a system and its games and know what can or can't be done. It's called common sense, which you don't need any programming know-how for. Simply put- point moot. You don't have any knowledge of who you've talked to here.
Brawl is pretty much Melee butchered to most people. It's everyone's least favorite in the series. And as said before, they've made a Smash Bros on N64. And there have been games with even more seamless multiplayer co op in NES or SNES games.
And lastly, there is no "benefit of the doubt to give". It's obviously that what he's saying is not to be taken seriously. He's been debunked a lot. He's an amazing developer and a really cool guy. But he remains a businessman first and a game developer second. He is also a human being and not perfect. He can bend the rules if he likes too. And of course no one would say any of this to his face, it's not even that important. Plus it's rude. He's done more than enough for the industry. At the same time, people have the right to criticize him and his games, and you can't do anything to stop that. It's called free speech. And he puts himself up to being judged. Deal with it. And stop being such a whiner because some people just happen to find some minor flaws in someone you like.
If you're claiming that he's lying then it falls back to what I said, either you're claiming that you know more about developing video games then Shiggy or you're trolling.
Also Shiggy is not a buisnessman, he designs games for Nintendo and then Nintendo sells the game.
"N64 could have run NSMB in its current state"
I'm assuming you're talking about the DS version and there's no way the 64 could have done the multiplayer cause when you use multiplayer you're using 2 DS's.
N64 did have some kick ass split screen though. The DS would be pretty decent to put NSMB Wii on. You wouldn't need to resize the screen for each player either, considering each player gets his/her own screen. And that system HAS had co op play. Take Phantasy Star 0 for a great example. It's damn impressive and has full multiplayer for 4 people, even online. I could see the DS being able to handle NSMB Wii's gameplay and multiplayer (with some tweaks) just judging by other games on the system.
mario 64 would be awesome with co-op. both mario and luigi run around together, they can go anywhere they want together or alone, do it online...oh wait, nintendo doesn't like online, thus it's never happened. sorry my bad.
awesome idea though...
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