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July 19, 2009 by RawmeatCowboy
Filed Under: Wii, Nintendo in general
Nintendo has had amazing success with the Wii, and now that Wii Sports Resort is going to hit in Europe and North America, you can be sure that good times are ahead.
The key component to Wii Sports Resort is the MotionPlus accessory. While the public has already latched onto the device with over 400,000 units sold, it's this little device that shows how Nintendo really feels about the Wiimote. They know that the original device never met the promise that many gamers saw, and now the Big N is working hard to make that type of gaming a reality. Are consumers going to bite, or are they waiting for Natal or Sony's solution?
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I just want to say I was surprise that Kotaku came up with a legit Wii article. I gave them a cookie on this one.
@TheWon
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Kotaku's community and commenting system might be crap now, but they're hardly what I'd call a biased website. You'd see that if you'd visit it more often. I know you were banned (so was I once, I offered up a link to high quality pics of GTA Chinatown Wars back when the game was just announced and got disemvoweled for it, argued about it and got banned - they're pretty ban happy over there) but I don't understand why you believe they're so biased.
You mind linking to your profile over there, actually? I kinda wanna see what you got banned for, just outta curiosity.
: \
Kotaku's community and commenting system might be crap now, but they're hardly what I'd call a biased website. You'd see that if you'd visit it more often. I know you were banned (so was I once, I offered up a link to high quality pics of GTA Chinatown Wars back when the game was just announced and got disemvoweled for it, argued about it and got banned - they're pretty ban happy over there) but I don't understand why you believe they're so biased.
You mind linking to your profile over there, actually? I kinda wanna see what you got banned for, just outta curiosity.
@thedreadpirateguy
"and it's hard to say who is at fault."
It's quite clear who is at fault here.
"The developers?"
BINGO. This should have been the end of your comment.
"Nintendo for not sharing how to get the most out of this tech?"
What exactly do you expect from Nintendo, to hold the hands of all 3rd parties?
also, one last thing...
" Metroid Prime was certainly enhanced and improved by the motion control scheme, but the first two games proved that the design was solid on its own without it. "
Wrong. They were solid before we were given a better interface; now they are inadequate.
"and it's hard to say who is at fault."
It's quite clear who is at fault here.
"The developers?"
BINGO. This should have been the end of your comment.
"Nintendo for not sharing how to get the most out of this tech?"
What exactly do you expect from Nintendo, to hold the hands of all 3rd parties?
also, one last thing...
" Metroid Prime was certainly enhanced and improved by the motion control scheme, but the first two games proved that the design was solid on its own without it. "
Wrong. They were solid before we were given a better interface; now they are inadequate.
I've read that 500,000 units of motion plus have been sold already, not 400,000. I believe it was a Tweet from Joystiq Nintendo.
"Are consumers going to bite...?"
I think they already have. Whether it is 400,000 or 500,000.
And this is without WSR on the market, which is by all accounts, the best use of WM+.
"Are consumers going to bite...?"
I think they already have. Whether it is 400,000 or 500,000.
And this is without WSR on the market, which is by all accounts, the best use of WM+.
@Kirbylol
No, Nintendo has a responsibility to show its developers how to work tech that is the basis for their whole system.
Imagine giving someone an airplane that is designed differently than everything else out there, yet the manufacturer doesn't tell how to fly it.
Sure, one might be able to get it into the air after awhile, but that doesn't mean the plane will be flown to its full potential.
Oh yeah, the plane recipient also has a professional affiliations with the company, and is working for this "boss".
Third-party publishers pay to be a Nintendo licensee, and Nintendo gets a cut of their sales. I think it's completely reasonable to have the expectation that Nintendo provide information on how to maximize the best potential out of their tech.
As for Metroid, the new control is only an enhancement. While the graphics have been slightly updated, nothing else has changed for the most part.
Metroid Prime was successful due to solid game design, which remains true now. Sure, the controls provide more for the play experience, but not the overall package. It debuted as a good game, and it's still a good (but now 7 year old) game. The old versions will remain just as playable, although perhaps not as preferential.
No, Nintendo has a responsibility to show its developers how to work tech that is the basis for their whole system.
Imagine giving someone an airplane that is designed differently than everything else out there, yet the manufacturer doesn't tell how to fly it.
Sure, one might be able to get it into the air after awhile, but that doesn't mean the plane will be flown to its full potential.
Oh yeah, the plane recipient also has a professional affiliations with the company, and is working for this "boss".
Third-party publishers pay to be a Nintendo licensee, and Nintendo gets a cut of their sales. I think it's completely reasonable to have the expectation that Nintendo provide information on how to maximize the best potential out of their tech.
As for Metroid, the new control is only an enhancement. While the graphics have been slightly updated, nothing else has changed for the most part.
Metroid Prime was successful due to solid game design, which remains true now. Sure, the controls provide more for the play experience, but not the overall package. It debuted as a good game, and it's still a good (but now 7 year old) game. The old versions will remain just as playable, although perhaps not as preferential.
I agree with thedreadpirateguy, Nintendo should be making it a big priority to help developers figure out the technology and make good games.
Because Nintendo gets a small percentage of profit from each Wii game sold, it's in their best interest to encourage better games out of 3rd parties, even if they are competition in a sense.
Because Nintendo gets a small percentage of profit from each Wii game sold, it's in their best interest to encourage better games out of 3rd parties, even if they are competition in a sense.
@WhatCD
KOTAKU is absolutely 89% biased against the Nintendo wii.
You will not be able to convince me otherwise.
KOTAKU is absolutely 89% biased against the Nintendo wii.
You will not be able to convince me otherwise.
By the way, I'd like to mention that Stephen Totilo is the best thing to ever happen to Kotaku. The guy's smart, level-headed, and seemingly unbiased.
I do sense a bit of anti-Nintendo sentiment from some of the other staffers. However, I'm sure a lot of the bias some of you others are sensing is plain bull. Anybody says anything bad about the Wii and you guys call it "bias". Well sorry, there are some legitimate bad things about the Wii and people are free to mention them.
Though you sometimes see Kotaku editors put a bad spin on Nintendo news, the real bias over there is from the dumb-as-a-rock Kotaku commenters. But it's nearly matched by some of the asinine "Nintendo can do no wrong" logic you find right here on this site's readership, so take from it what you will.
I do sense a bit of anti-Nintendo sentiment from some of the other staffers. However, I'm sure a lot of the bias some of you others are sensing is plain bull. Anybody says anything bad about the Wii and you guys call it "bias". Well sorry, there are some legitimate bad things about the Wii and people are free to mention them.
Though you sometimes see Kotaku editors put a bad spin on Nintendo news, the real bias over there is from the dumb-as-a-rock Kotaku commenters. But it's nearly matched by some of the asinine "Nintendo can do no wrong" logic you find right here on this site's readership, so take from it what you will.
@Hawk
Thanks, man. Seriously. Why WOULDN'T Nintendo do this? It only helps their case, strengthens relationships with developers to get better and more exclusive content, not to mention the whole "money" factor.
But Nintendo doesn't. It's bizarre why they don't, but it's not exactly a new practice from them.
I still want to see an awesome lightsaber game. I still want to find more games as functionally awesome as Boom Blox or Metroid Prime 3.
Thanks, man. Seriously. Why WOULDN'T Nintendo do this? It only helps their case, strengthens relationships with developers to get better and more exclusive content, not to mention the whole "money" factor.
But Nintendo doesn't. It's bizarre why they don't, but it's not exactly a new practice from them.
I still want to see an awesome lightsaber game. I still want to find more games as functionally awesome as Boom Blox or Metroid Prime 3.
@Hawk
Nintendo should be making it a big priority to help developers figure out the technology and make good games.
Nintendo already DOES do that, though. High Voltage, for example, said they were given Wii Speak well before it was announced and have mentioned many times in interviews how helpful Nintendo has been. They're even supposedly working with Nintendo to try and fix The Conduit's online issues.
There is no shortage of stories about how helpful Nintendo has been with the Wii, especially compared to how they used to be from the sound of it.
What you and thedreadpirateguy I think are suggesting is that Nintendo basically holds these other developer's hands and tell them how to make their games.
That's not Nintendo's job, nor should it be.
If a developer can't get, say, a specific motion or something to work how they envision it, than sure. Nintendo can and probably will step in and offer their expertise.
What Nintendo should NOT do is sit there and babysit them until they've got it working right.
Or in other words, Nintendo should basically say, "Alright, we have shown you how to make Motion X with the controller. Now it's up to you to make that a fun game mechanic."
Developers should develop their own games. Not Nintendo.
As far as Kotaku goes...
The commenters are about 95% against Nintendo. Or at least the Wii.
Crecente has openly stated he doesn't like the Wii. McWhertor and Plunkett also don't strike me as fans of the Wii.
I think Fahey tries to like it.
Totilo and Bashcraft seem to be pro-Nintendo and/or Wii.
Actually, Bashcraft is really...non partisan. I'm not sure how he feels about it, but I get the impression that since he lives in Japan he has a more favorable impression of it, for whatever reason.
Actually, Totilo is really non-partisan, too, but I do get the impression from his writing that he's ultimately a fan of it.
And finally, as far as the article itself goes...I agree 100% with it. Nintendo still has yet to step up to the plate and REALLY show people why motion controls are superior. Right now, I think they have arguably shown that they're merely an acceptable replacement at best.
I hope that WM+ FINALLY helps Nintendo and other developers really have their eyes open to the possibilities of motion controls, but...given the way most western studios have an irrational dislike for the Wii, I'm not holding my breath.
Nintendo should be making it a big priority to help developers figure out the technology and make good games.
Nintendo already DOES do that, though. High Voltage, for example, said they were given Wii Speak well before it was announced and have mentioned many times in interviews how helpful Nintendo has been. They're even supposedly working with Nintendo to try and fix The Conduit's online issues.
There is no shortage of stories about how helpful Nintendo has been with the Wii, especially compared to how they used to be from the sound of it.
What you and thedreadpirateguy I think are suggesting is that Nintendo basically holds these other developer's hands and tell them how to make their games.
That's not Nintendo's job, nor should it be.
If a developer can't get, say, a specific motion or something to work how they envision it, than sure. Nintendo can and probably will step in and offer their expertise.
What Nintendo should NOT do is sit there and babysit them until they've got it working right.
Or in other words, Nintendo should basically say, "Alright, we have shown you how to make Motion X with the controller. Now it's up to you to make that a fun game mechanic."
Developers should develop their own games. Not Nintendo.
As far as Kotaku goes...
The commenters are about 95% against Nintendo. Or at least the Wii.
Crecente has openly stated he doesn't like the Wii. McWhertor and Plunkett also don't strike me as fans of the Wii.
I think Fahey tries to like it.
Totilo and Bashcraft seem to be pro-Nintendo and/or Wii.
Actually, Bashcraft is really...non partisan. I'm not sure how he feels about it, but I get the impression that since he lives in Japan he has a more favorable impression of it, for whatever reason.
Actually, Totilo is really non-partisan, too, but I do get the impression from his writing that he's ultimately a fan of it.
And finally, as far as the article itself goes...I agree 100% with it. Nintendo still has yet to step up to the plate and REALLY show people why motion controls are superior. Right now, I think they have arguably shown that they're merely an acceptable replacement at best.
I hope that WM+ FINALLY helps Nintendo and other developers really have their eyes open to the possibilities of motion controls, but...given the way most western studios have an irrational dislike for the Wii, I'm not holding my breath.
@Hawk
"By the way, I'd like to mention that Stephen Totilo is the best thing to ever happen to Kotaku. The guy's smart, level-headed, and seemingly unbiased." -Hawk
"Even in Wii Fit, the great successor to Wii Sports, the Wii Remote was all but relegated to a laser pointer used to select menu options. Meanwhile, the mechanism for the game's motion was the Balance Board, a controller inspired by a bathroom scale."
-Steven Totilo of KOTAKU
The pre-ceeding quote from steven was something I found right in this very article!
As someone who uses wii fit everyday, I'd have to say that either Steven Totilo hasn't used wii fit.
Or HE IS biased.
The "pointer" is used in many, many ways in wii fit.
Calling it a pointer shows he really
isn't a very good journalist and he hasnt done his homework.
With this "pointer"
I box, I jog, I do tricep reps, there's an excrutiating standing up sitting down thing. There's a leg lift arm lift move...etc etc
All of these things are done with the wiimote.
My point is that he's flat out wrong.
The "bathroom scale" jab is just insulting.
The wiifit is selling.
When was the last time the entire world starting buying up "bathroom scales" by the millions.
The wii balance board is really amazing in what it can do.
Posture, skiing, proper pushups, balance tests, snowboarding, weight tracking, etc...
Case in point. Time Magazine declared this device to be one it's top 5 gadgets of 2008.
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packa ... 39,00.html
I used to enjoy Kotaku and i dont understand the hate coming from them.
Im not gushing anywhere for Nintendo in this post.
Im just pointing out this very bias I feel is rampant at a website for gamers with samples and quotes.
These Kotaku's are supposedly gamers. What is up their collective warp pipes?
"By the way, I'd like to mention that Stephen Totilo is the best thing to ever happen to Kotaku. The guy's smart, level-headed, and seemingly unbiased." -Hawk
"Even in Wii Fit, the great successor to Wii Sports, the Wii Remote was all but relegated to a laser pointer used to select menu options. Meanwhile, the mechanism for the game's motion was the Balance Board, a controller inspired by a bathroom scale."
-Steven Totilo of KOTAKU
The pre-ceeding quote from steven was something I found right in this very article!
As someone who uses wii fit everyday, I'd have to say that either Steven Totilo hasn't used wii fit.
Or HE IS biased.
The "pointer" is used in many, many ways in wii fit.
Calling it a pointer shows he really
isn't a very good journalist and he hasnt done his homework.
With this "pointer"
I box, I jog, I do tricep reps, there's an excrutiating standing up sitting down thing. There's a leg lift arm lift move...etc etc
All of these things are done with the wiimote.
My point is that he's flat out wrong.
The "bathroom scale" jab is just insulting.
The wiifit is selling.
When was the last time the entire world starting buying up "bathroom scales" by the millions.
The wii balance board is really amazing in what it can do.
Posture, skiing, proper pushups, balance tests, snowboarding, weight tracking, etc...
Case in point. Time Magazine declared this device to be one it's top 5 gadgets of 2008.
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packa ... 39,00.html
I used to enjoy Kotaku and i dont understand the hate coming from them.
Im not gushing anywhere for Nintendo in this post.
Im just pointing out this very bias I feel is rampant at a website for gamers with samples and quotes.
These Kotaku's are supposedly gamers. What is up their collective warp pipes?
@samfish
"If a developer can't get, say, a specific motion or something to work how they envision it, than sure. Nintendo can and probably will step in and offer their expertise."
THAT is what thatdreadpirateguy and I are suggesting, not any hand-holding or babysitting. Developers still have to build an engine and create assets after all.
Nintendo provides a simple software tool with which to record readouts from Wiimote motions. This is a good first step, but developers could definitely use better documentation on the Wii's graphic libraries and inner workings. What they're given is somewhat sparse.
AND YES, it's Nintendo's job. You think $1700 for a Wii devkit only covers the hardware costs? NO. They're really only about a $300 machine. A Wii devkit is meant to come with continual support. That's what Epic does when you lease their Unreal Engine, and that's what Nintendo is supposed to do when you develop for their hardware.
@Eggplant Magicianna
Okay, what you're claiming as lies designed to belittle and undermine Wii Fit, I claim to be a pretty apt description of it. It probably WAS inspired by bathroom scales. Soooooo... that's YOUR opinion. And it's derived from a quote taken out of context. And you spent paragraph after paragraph ranting about it. Time Magazine and their opinions have nothing to do with what we're talking about.
I'm pretty sure that under your definitions, If I said "The Wii has worse graphics than the PS3", you'd tell me I'm biased.
"If a developer can't get, say, a specific motion or something to work how they envision it, than sure. Nintendo can and probably will step in and offer their expertise."
THAT is what thatdreadpirateguy and I are suggesting, not any hand-holding or babysitting. Developers still have to build an engine and create assets after all.
Nintendo provides a simple software tool with which to record readouts from Wiimote motions. This is a good first step, but developers could definitely use better documentation on the Wii's graphic libraries and inner workings. What they're given is somewhat sparse.
AND YES, it's Nintendo's job. You think $1700 for a Wii devkit only covers the hardware costs? NO. They're really only about a $300 machine. A Wii devkit is meant to come with continual support. That's what Epic does when you lease their Unreal Engine, and that's what Nintendo is supposed to do when you develop for their hardware.
@Eggplant Magicianna
Okay, what you're claiming as lies designed to belittle and undermine Wii Fit, I claim to be a pretty apt description of it. It probably WAS inspired by bathroom scales. Soooooo... that's YOUR opinion. And it's derived from a quote taken out of context. And you spent paragraph after paragraph ranting about it. Time Magazine and their opinions have nothing to do with what we're talking about.
I'm pretty sure that under your definitions, If I said "The Wii has worse graphics than the PS3", you'd tell me I'm biased.
@samfish
"What you and thedreadpirateguy I think are suggesting is that Nintendo basically holds these other developer's hands and tell them how to make their games.
That's not Nintendo's job, nor should it be. "
That's not what I was thinking at all. Thinking Nintendo should be in charge of and monitor everyone's games is impractical and unrealistic.
All I'm saying is that it's clear that a lot of developers/publishers don't "get" what to do with the system, and it only fuels the criticism that motion controls are gimmicky.
If it's the third parties fault that their games are wonky, then so be it. Who knows? Maybe High Voltage is one of the few to take Nintendo up on getting some proper assistance.
But there have also been a lot of reports from developers scratching their heads and wondering how the Hell to make a proper game for the system. And that in itself is the issue. People should have a clear idea of what to do and how to work things three years in. The fact that they don't means that they haven't gotten the information that they've needed.
"What you and thedreadpirateguy I think are suggesting is that Nintendo basically holds these other developer's hands and tell them how to make their games.
That's not Nintendo's job, nor should it be. "
That's not what I was thinking at all. Thinking Nintendo should be in charge of and monitor everyone's games is impractical and unrealistic.
All I'm saying is that it's clear that a lot of developers/publishers don't "get" what to do with the system, and it only fuels the criticism that motion controls are gimmicky.
If it's the third parties fault that their games are wonky, then so be it. Who knows? Maybe High Voltage is one of the few to take Nintendo up on getting some proper assistance.
But there have also been a lot of reports from developers scratching their heads and wondering how the Hell to make a proper game for the system. And that in itself is the issue. People should have a clear idea of what to do and how to work things three years in. The fact that they don't means that they haven't gotten the information that they've needed.
@Hawk
The PS3 has much much better graphics than the Nintendo wii.
I love my PS3.
Im sorry buddy.
I don't mean to be a jerk.
I guess I felt the bathroom scale annalogy was a sucker punch that was badly aimed (with a pointer)
The PS3 has much much better graphics than the Nintendo wii.
I love my PS3.
Im sorry buddy.
I don't mean to be a jerk.
I guess I felt the bathroom scale annalogy was a sucker punch that was badly aimed (with a pointer)
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Three years later, there is still a ton of untapped potential for what controls like this COULD do versus what is actually out there, and it's hard to say who is at fault. The developers? Nintendo for not sharing how to get the most out of this tech?
Don't get me wrong, some games have made some smart use out of the control, and have enhanced certain titles and types of games, but I think that's also attributed to smart game design.
Mario Galaxy would still be a completely brilliant game and work just fine even without any motion controls. Metroid Prime was certainly enhanced and improved by the motion control scheme, but the first two games proved that the design was solid on its own without it. And while Punch-Out, Brawl, Twilight Princess, and Mario Kart all utilize motion control, they are still all enjoyable even in a traditional control setting. I don't think the games diminish without motion. Motion is just simply a play option, not integral. And it should be.
The controls do work well for shooters and point and click games, but I'm still ready to see what else the control scheme is capable of.
And yes, I enjoy my Wii, and am not "bashing" for bashing's sake.