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KingBroly
Rank: ModeratorJoined: Apr 07
Wii Code:7772-0280-1154-0427
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October 7, 2009 by The News Team
Filed Under: Wii
Our friends at MTV got to try out some new levels from the upcoming New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and they were absolutely blown away by how difficult it was. Once again, this isn't the first time we're hearing about the striking difficulty of the title. It seems like the Super Guide feature is really opening up a great path for hardcore gamers, as we're safe to get deeper challenges, while newcomers can just let the A.I. do the work for them.
Story Feedback
Anyways, I'm sycked about this game.
The Totodile? has spoken? (char fill)
You seem to be a real party pooper. Why is it that I've been in two NSMBWii topics now and you were the first to comment? And with such negativity?
Kinda makes you wonder what would happen if Contra (4) had a Super Guide too. *shiver*
@Totodile
Lmfao, I see what you did there
@NeroSuferoth
Why is it so hard to believe that the levels might hold a challenge and be difficult? Wasn't that a purpose of the super guide? To present challenges for veterens while providing an outlet of completion for new comers who would normally give up?
This should be good news that gamers were waiting for, but instead it is being dismissed as lies. These people have gotten a chance to actually play the game. You haven't. So for now, it'd be best to take their word for it until you have a chance to prove otherwise.
@-J
terry generally has nothing positive to say, when I read his posts I'm just thinking "oh you
I'd rather take the opinion of someone who's actually played the game than someone who has not, and has made it clear about 100 times he does not want this game and will say anything negative to get that point across.
Anyway, it shouldn't even be a big deal that the game will present a decent amount challenge. Good games do that, and have been doing that already. The ridiculously named Super Guide is a tool to help casuals, so I'm sorry if I don't see a direct correlation between the inclusion of Super Guide, and the difficulty of a video game.
Yeah, but they would eliminate a large portion of their audience by making it more difficult. That doesn't sound very Nintendo-like to me. For an example of what I mean, look at the amount of people who play N+ compared to other good and easier 2D platformers. It's nowhere near as much.
I really want to know if you're being serious or not lol
You were the only one who raise their hand.
I played the game at E3 and it was easy. However, I haven't played this new updated demo. I hope it's challenging...like they're saying. Like I said in the other topic, I'll believe it when I experience it.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/103/1032770p1.html
@Artistic_Anarchy
Um... I DIND'T raise my hand. I died a lot in the final world. I said "raise your hand if you NEVER died once in the original DS game."
I died on some of the stages you had to lay as mini-Mario to get to. Luckily I had over 50 lives at that point.
Its not like I hate the game, I like it... but its just simply isn't enough to warrant a full price tag purchase.
Who position? It's not MTV Games job to make you want to buy a Nintendo game. If they didn't like it and thought it sucks, than they would of said so with no hesitation. They're not going to lie to you about someone else's game. I think you're a bit paranoid to be honest!
I died at most 5 times and I know once was on purpose to restart the level
I ended the game with 100 lives, but I still had a great time with it.
Some of the later levels definitely were challenging but having mastered SMB 1 and 3, played a lot of SMB World and gone through the Lost Levels twice (once with Luigi then with Mario which is harder), I managed to clear them in one shot. The challenge was still there though.
So what I'm really looking forward to is somewhat of a challenge but mostly memorable level design.
I can't wait to get the game, I've been playing SMB every couple of days running through the game.
lol oops.
From that IGN article, they didn't mention that the difficulty increased, but that was mostly because he only had 30 minutes to play. Hopefully we'll see some details of it's difficulty when they get the same. He mentioned that they were going to receive the game in a few days so here's hoping we'll see some difficulty talk.
They get to play these games and write about them so that we, the people who read impressions and reviews, will want to purchase the games. They don't HAVE to say anything good, but these journalists are always hyping games and making bold statements about games while trying to make them seem so much better than they really are. I felt like I've been lied to before. Anyway, look at the headline for this page, and linked page. Do you believe it?
@ZS
There's a difference between calling someone a 'liar' and saying you don't belive him.. know that.
I didn't dismiss his argument entierly neither. Being that Nintendo games have gotten easier with time I just need to try before I agree with him and I have my doubts since this is the first game that demo play is going to be implemented so I don't think that they made it more difficult than past Mario games.
And finally, what he calls difficult I may call average and vice versa, people do have different tastes.
Still psyched about the game though..
Seriously, Mario games have been too easy the last 20 years. I miss the old school NES days of losing a life over and over again.
There's a fine line between a challenge and OMFG UNFAIRLY HARD.
DonnyDarko420
thank you.
And all games have gotten easier and dare I say it, more casual [shock]. Titles like Mario [in general], most shooters, GTA etc. are all generally easy to pick up, play for half an hour and put it down again without much fuss [for RPGs and the like with fickle save points, add at least another 10-15 mins].
[Or has the expanded audience label changed again?]
FYI, the MTV Multiplayer Blog is dedicated solely to gaming. It really has nothing to do with what's broadcast on MTV (I originally put music videos, but those aren't broadcast on MTV...).
@terryxlr
You really don't get it, do you? Nintendo (and every other company) were making their games easier because they wanted to expand their audience. If you make games too difficult, you frustrate a large part of your audience, and that part of the audience will never see the ending of the game. In many cases, those people stop playing that game and it affects their buying habits in the future, so you've upset the consumer - hence, you make the game easier. So now, with this Super Guide (Super Mario Bros? Super Guide? Connect the two!) they can make the game more challenging for those that want the challenge (AKA us), while still keeping it appealing for those who aren't as skilled (AKA everyone else). Whether or not this increase in difficulty actually happens is up in the air, but the initial impressions from Kotaku and now MTV Multiplayer seem to be that the game is much more difficult than before thanks to the inclusion of Super Guide.
I want to believe them, but I don't. I guess I'll see for sure though when I buy the game, because I will.
It's the first 2D console Mario game in like, forever! It's going to be awesome!
But if it is hard, then I'm interested now.
And I died plenty of times in the DS game. I still don't think it was a hard game.
@pslong009
I agree, except with part of the first thing you said.
The expanded audience was not a huge part of their audience until they made it so. If they focused on making games for normal gamers from the start, there would be no need to make them easier, since their audience would be exactly that~ their audience.
Making games easier, and by extension, shorter/more boring/loss of depth is also upsetting the consumer. Why is there priority to the ones who don't usually buy games over the ones who buy games all the time because it's their hobby? Why upset the consumers that actually give a crap about you?
And I don't know where on a video game box it says that you are entitled to see the end. Video games are a casual experience, but the point of finishing a game is to show that you had the skill to do so. You earn the ending to a game, which is why games get harder as they go on. You have to work to see the end.
RPGs, for example, you need to level up so that you can beat the bosses and progress. You have to 'train' the characters so they are powerful enough to overcome their obstacles. This is how games are played.
Sports teams, you practice to get better. You don't get accepted into a team at school if you suck. You need to get better, come back, and try again.
If you're inadequate at something, you're inadequate. If Nintendo wants to expand the audience, go ahead and make your expanded audience games, or add Easy Mode or Super Guide to the game. But just making the entire game easier, to the point where a "Hard Mode" is a walk in the park, is diluting the product itself.
If a soda company makes just cherry soda, and a portion of people who like soda prefer grape, then that soda company adds a new grape flavor.
They don't get rid of Cherry, or change it to Grape with a hint of Cherry.
Make everyone happy, not make one group happy, or make one group more happy and then make the original group kinda happy, maybe, sometimes.
My example may be retarded and sound obscure, but I knew what I was talking about at first. After I wrote it, I didn't understand what I was saying.
In any case, they should've just made this Super Guide thing from the start, instead of making games easier.
I have a feeling everyone's going to misunderstand what I am saying and think I am being negative. D:
I'm genuinely interested in this game, now. D:
He maybee works for Sony or Microsoft, the forum is full of negative opinions from theses guys. Or maybee he's directly in touch with Big N, the N5 returns lol
Great news for Mario, purchase day 1.
Like Tourney players of Smash Bros.?
Gooooooood tiiiiiiiiimes.
@player value
Why is it so hard to believe that people who were Nintendo fans can be mad at their decisions and genuinely think that they are doing something stupid, or have negative feelings towards them?
Nintendo is not some saintly company that knows what is best for everyone.
Nintendo does what they want, with complete disregard of the people they upset. They are business only. They don't care about you, or new players. Miyamoto makes games he wants to play, and Nintendo makes games they assume will sell. That's all there is to it. Like a complete facepalm "duh".
I like how a blind fanboy retort to negativity towards Nintendo clearly means that the other person is not/never was a fan, or they are clearly some fanboy of another console. This is just ridiculous.
But yes, great news for Mario!
I get what you mean. It's like they've been spoiled by those "frsutration mod" ROM hacks I keep seeing videos of on YouTube. Geez if Nintendo ever made a game that hard then trust me, they'd only anienate people.
I understand your point and to be honest, I was mostly calling out Terryxlr.
My point still stands. There are too many people making judgements about a game barely anyone has played (too easy, not worth full price, etc). And when someone who has played a newer demo (not the early E3 build) makes a claim about a game, we should take their word for it until we know otherwise through other impressions, hands-ons, reviews, or personal playtime.
I would take a four swords wii with ds functionality too , or that vs pacman
To be fair, switching to being overly casual and making offensively casual commercials (Animal Crossing City Folk?) also alienates people. Not the same people, but definitely alienates people.
@ECC
I thought they loved Batman for being true to it's source material (for the most part; or at least the personalities of the characters), having all the cartoon voices, and being able to do many cool things as the Dark Knight.
@Hongo
This. The biggest problem for me, now, about this game is the price.
$50 for, essentially, a WiiWare game (or a souped up DS game) is a little too much. I don't care if it's Mario.
When Project Needlemouse comes along, everyone's going to complain that it's too much to pay for a retail Sonic game that "could've been done on WiiWare", but for Mario, it's totally fine for a bunch of people.
It'd be one thing if this game was stylized. Or handdrawn, like A Boy & His Blob, or Muramasa, but it looks, visually, almost the same as the DS game, which, in itself, is just a lot of stock art.
Really...this game should not be on Wiiware. When was the last time a new game with more than 80 levels was bought through Digital Distribution (less than $30, anyway)? Pretty much never, unless you count flash games which are incredibly different. I mean, I see what you're saying, but you should look at the newer backgrounds/videos, the game actually looks good. It would be far over their self-imposed limit.
Seriously, you can say it's bad or it isn't worth it, but don't say it should be on WiiWare. We all really know how good a Wiiware version of this game would be (pedestrian and outsourced, basically). Just because it's generic 2D doesn't mean it should be on WiiWare just like generic 3D doesn't, it just means that their art is generic.
Also, people were calling for both of your examples of worthy games to be on Wiiware or at least XBLA and they're both shorter than this game.
Note: This isn't fully directed at you, I just absolutely hate the "make all 2D games portable and DD" campaign. I know you aren't part of it but statements like that encourage the sentiment. Plus, I'm frustrated in general, so sorry if it's a little harsh. I ust have a feeling that if any of these games we mentioned were in 3D nobody would have a problem with them being retail.
You know, just because Kaizo Mario and every other Super Mario World fanhack proves to be extremely difficult doesn't mean that they're fun to play.
Nintendo has different standards for level design.
Oh and in answer to that "hasn't died once question" I'm afraid to disappoint you but I died in NSMB like I did in NES and Super NES days...and dammit I'm proud of that.
Understood... but it wasn't as if my claims weren't without grounds. We can agree that videogames for the most part have gotten easier and all of a sudden this hardcorest of the Mario games comes along.. it was just a bit hard to swallow.
Is not like that would've stopped me from getting the game.. it is a Mario game after all, on 2D, with 4 player multiplayer and a pretty good looking at that. Being more challenging than the preivous ones is a definite +
Four things (started as three, then saw the fourth point on a different post and realized it was still you!):
1) Why make games easier for an expanded audience, which has been happening since the PSX era? Because the more people you get into gaming, the more money you make. It's really as simple as that. If you focus on one audience - the experienced gamer - you're leaving tons of money on the table. Companies could make games that cater to that population, but there's not much money in that group, and without a very solid business plan (Atlus is a example of one that does), those companies would go out of business very quickly. I get what you're saying, but it wasn't until Nintendo developed this functionality that catering to both the new and experienced gamers at the same time was possible.
2) As for not being entitled to see the end: watch this from Gameswipe (it's only 5 minutes) - it does a good job explaining what I think about that line of thought: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG3aHvPG ... r_embedded
3) I agree, I would have loved to have seen this Super Guide from the start. But it wasn't there from the start. It looks like Nintendo is off on the right foot for this. It seems like it will have a good balance of challenge and accessibility.
4) Okay, not every 2D game should be on WiiWare. There's likely been a ton of work put into this. We know that at the very least, there are 8 distinct worlds, likely at least 7-8 levels minimum on each world, plus bosses, plus hidden secrets. That's a lot more complex than any WiiWare game currently available, and more complex than some $60 retail games.
Okay. But I don't recall ever saying that I wanted extremely difficult levels. In terms of difficulty, I want a game that will take me longer than a couple of days to beat. And if I can beat it that quickly, then I want extra secret exits and other unlockables to make the game worth it. I don't want a game that is too hard or easy. I don't think this game will be bad either. I just think it wont be anywhere near as good as it could have been. We'll see what the levels are like, and hopefully they will be satisfying, but outside of level design and difficulty, this game could really use online, and the really should use a different art style. This generic Mario artstyle has gotten tiring, and for the first console 2D Mario game in so many years, I think it would be appropriate to make the game look better than it is. I'm sure the multiplayer will be fun, but I don't have four buddies lined up ready to play whenever I'm in the mood. For these reasons, and the fact that there are other first and third party games that look more fun and seem to by trying harder to earn y dollar, I am not excited for this game.
But yea, as far as difficulty and level design go, we will see.
Really, I want Super Mario World. That game was amazing. I guarantee we wont see Bowser in a freaky Clown vehicle thing in this game..
"look at the amount of people who play N+ compared to other good and easier 2D platformers. It's nowhere near as much. "
Though, keep in mind that this is Mario. It's gonna sell massively.
I think it's funny how people are calling this a lie. There's a difference between not hyping yourself and calling everything good BS.
inorite? MTV has like no credibility, especially with games. I'd be really surprised if they were right. Then again, if they played NSMB, this would mean NSMBWii would be harder, so that's something to look forward to. :)
@terryxlr
"I guarantee we wont see Bowser in a freaky Clown vehicle thing in this game.. "
Quoted and saved. We shall see. >:D
(kidding)
But I'm looking forward to this now. I've seen a few videos, the levels DO look harder, especially with their new rotational system and the sand levels (if you've seen them, they don't look entirely easy) The game is definitely bringing something new to the table. It might not be Super Mario World, but it looks like they're trying.
@DarkShadow
No one cares.
How exactly would you like the artstyle to appear? More realistic? You nuts or something?...
They didn't change the GFX because, put bluntly, nobody fixes what it's broken. It looks fine. The main appeal of the game is the offline multiplayer though, don't forget.
Of course no one cares. Thats why no one replied to my comment.. well, except you of course.
Now, if you really wouldn't have cared about me not caring, then I guess that you wouldn't have replied just like everyone else.
But hey, don't mind me. I'm just feeding a troll.
I imagine I don't know anybody that has any idea what n+ is....but I also bet they all know Mario
Less generic. A more cartoon-like or hand drawn look would have likely made me me look forward to this game. If it was like Muramasa or A boy and his blob, that would have been good. Or they could have tried to make it like that what-if sonic HD art. They could also just use sprites that are highly detailed. Mainly, I would have preferred a more atmospheric game. One where the setting could affect your mood. Reflections, little balls of light, lensflare, something....
Look at Sonic 3d Blast on the Saturn. That game is much more visually appealing to me than NSMB Wii, and the worlds look good.
Again, anything but this generic Mario artsyle that they use a lot would have been just fine. Even realistic.
I didn't say it should be WiiWare. I said it should be cheaper, because it could be done on WiiWare (as in, the scale of the game, and graphics). I can guarantee the game will probably take up less than 1GB (or, 1GB at most) of the 4GB DVD Nintendo will sell us. City Folk and Wii Music could fit on one disc, given the actual size of the games.
When was the last time a new game with more than 80 levels was bought through Digital Distribution (less than $30, anyway)? Pretty much never, unless you count flash games which are incredibly different.
Splosion Man. Granted, it's on 360:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splosion_Man
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va0qkm_7sxs
Also, buying all of the parts of Final Fantasy 4 The After Years ($37) will net you more hours than this will.
And in theory, you probably COULD do Muramasa and AB&HB on XBLA. And do we even know how long AB&HB is? Even then, they said it fills the disc. 4GB worth of stuff. NSMBW may have more levels, and a longevity to surpass it, due to multiplayer, but it will still be a smaller game, overall. Super Mario World will, most likely, contain more stages than this will in the end.
The problem is that we're spending $50 for a 1GB game that Nintendo/stores will NEVER price drop (Twilight Princess is still $50).
I am not saying I want this to be $20 or something, but somewhere in the $30-$40 price range is more suitable. If it's one of those prices, I am more willing to bite a lot closer to launch, otherwise I'm waiting and just asking for it as a gift for my birthday or Christmas or something.
And trust me, I want NO game to be on WiiWare if it can help it. I want all of the LostWinds titles to be retail discs, and I have no problem with NSMBW being retail. I just feel that it should be cheaper for what it is.
@pslong009
1) No, I know full well WHY Nintendo does it. It doesn't make it any less annoying though, as a gamer. They are only just recently getting into the habit of caring about both sides again. I know that, in the long run, this was good for everyone, but I just feel like 3 years was a long time to dedicate to this just to make up for the Gamecube, which, honestly, I felt had a great library, contrary to popular belief.
2) Huh. Yeah. lol.
3) Agreed.
4) Read above. I don't want this, or many 2D (or 3D) games to be on WiiWare. Just an issue of pricing, for me.
@Lyude77
I only payed $15 for Shadow Complex, and so far it's easily my favorite DD game of the year (and definitely in the running for favorite game of the year period).
The game is biiiiig
The people who say this isn't worth the price tag disgust me. I hate all the hate towards 2D games this generation.
Why should people think it's worth the price tag?
As strange as it'll sound, I don't think it is, but I'll still be getting the game because it's Mario and Mario is my thing yo.
It's all about a perceived lack of effort on Nintendo's part, and I'd say the thought is justified. I mean, when I heard whoever it was claim that NSMB was maxing out the Wii and that's why we couldn't have some sort of online mode... it blew my freaking mind yo. It seems like a low-risk, low-effort title.
Not like that's entirely bad. MegaMan 9 fits that description, yet it was one of my favorite games of last year.
The difference? I payed eight bucks for MegaMan 9.
That said, I died plenty of times on NSMB. The thing is, it doesn't matter because of how many 1UPs you can earn in that game, AND that they save those 1UPs for your next session.
That said, this is the best news since Punch-Out was announced.
Now that I think about it, 50$ might be too much for a 2D game with sprites and not 2.5D or 3D and realistic effects like Shadow Complex.. The only thing I can think of now is that the game has to be long and have some extra content that we haven't heard off...
Isn't this game supposed to have around 80 levels?.. it remains to be seen how long the levels are.
Not that I really care neither. Luckily the last game I bought was Shadow Complex at $15 so I have some extra cash that I saved especially for this game.. And it looks like a good quality game.
Talking about Sonic 3D, constantly having something to complain about?
OH GOSH... ITS HUELEN FROM NSIDER!
This is the fourth time you've directly responded to me. That officially makes you a Terryxlr fan. Congratulations.
But when those same sources talk about how Nintendo isn't doing that good on a specified area or have valid complaints, these blind fanboys start crying and defending Nintendo with their lives.
I'm starting to ask myself if being involved that way with a company and having irrational and God like status for it, could be dangerous for these people and the ones sorrounding them.
And besides, nothing could be harder than that most famous of professionally produced Rom hacks itself, Super Mario Bros. 2 (Lost Levels)? THAT game should have been called "Super Mario Bros.: F**ked Up Edition".
The graphics ARE in 3D. They're just not really showy at all. And maybe the foreground tiles are 2D, hard to tell, but all the characters, and even those seemingly 2D backgrounds are 3D. Perhaps a game like this could of been downloadable, yes... on the 360 or PS3. That being said, with at the very least a DS NSMB's worth of content plus more(the powerups, four players, actual 3D albet not really stylized graphics, etc) it wouldn't of fit on the Wii's limited space.
I'm personally eagerly awaiting this game... except that I was doing that the instant I heard "Co-Op" and "Mario platform adventure", what I believed the original should have been, so I can't really argue about difficulty or price. I'd be incredibly biased so I'm gonna save myself the trouble. >_>
Who let him out of the cage?
I thought Four Swords Adventures was worth the price.
But that's because, at the time, it did something new.
And it mixes the old graphics with new (Wind Waker) graphics, and the Japanese one had 3 types of games, not just 2 like we got.
Mario's doing something new for Mario, but it doesn't do much else new with the game except slightly smooth out the jagged DS graphics for the Wii. At least FSA made use of the fact it was on Gamecube, and didn't act like a glorified GBA game.
And what the hell is "Mario-quality"? Doing the same thing in every game with a new power up?
@DinnerSonic
Animal Crossing and Wii Music both take up less than 1GB on the game discs. You can actually burn the ISO of either game onto a CD as a back-up. That's really sad.
I would not be surprised if this game is the same.
If it's more than a gig, then Nintendo actually put stuff into the game, which, would surprise me.
So much hate in your mouth.
Take that !
Can you tell me since when games are based on technology? or based on the size of the ISO?
I thought videogames were based on playable content.
You may be surprised to know how small the rom of NSMB DS is compared to other games with less replay value, but with more megabytes in the same system.
I'm not sure I understand the question.
People were arguing that it couldn't be done on WiiWare and I was just saying I wouldn't be surprised if it could, considering how small some of Nintendo's games have turned out to be.
Nothing to do with the replay value. I got more replay out of Sonic 3 on genesis (with or without Sonic & Knuckles) than I did plenty of games I've purchased for Wii or 360, and that's a really short game. I've also gotten more replay out of Majora's Mask than I have out of any of the 3D Mario games (seeing as, who wants to get 120 Stars AGAIN? -THOUGH... I got all into playing Sunshine from the start the one day and that was a blast... due to how long it's been (I finished it, 120 stars, in a month from release and never touched it again).
I never said the game or its price was based on tech or size of the ISO. It was just a response to "Wii's memory is too small for that" and how surprisingly small some Wii games actually are.
A Boy & His Blob could never be done on WiiWare, nor could Muramasa, and that has nothing to do with play-length or anything.
@wiiarebrothers
Oh wow, what?
No MoldyClay. It couldn't be done on WiiWare. Period.
If a Boy and His Blob or Muramasa obviously couldn't be done one WiiWare, nor could a game like Super Paper Mario or Wario Land, then how exactly could you see NSMBWii being done on WiiWare?
It's got much better graphics (see smoother, more detailed, better graphic effects, particle effects, lighting etc...), than the DS game, all happening while many enemies are on screen at once, plus up to four players (and sometimes even four Yoshis) on screen at once. The IGN preview even said that he saw a level with dozens of Cheep Cheeps on screen at once. That's crazy. And couldn't be done on a lesser system, much less a tiny WiiWare file.
Point being, this game is "next gen", just as much as something like MP3 or Mario Galaxy or Brawl was, all in their own way. It's using the hardware for different things than simply super shiny graphics, though if you ask me, the graphics look pretty damn good anyway, albeit simplistic (Which fits Mario to begin with).
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/ ... _2_big.jpg
http://media.photobucket.com/image/New% ... i-e320.jpg
Yeah, there is a noticeable difference between the two, but they look about the same, other than smoothing everything out and making better backgrounds (and apparently changing the lighting).
In any case, I don't get why anyone is fighting me.
I am not saying to put the game on WiiWare or that it belongs that.
Considering the fact it's 2D and has the style of graphics that it does, it should have a lot of levels, taking advantage of the space on the disc (4GB) and making use of the Wii's features (not in gameplay, but in the fact that it can graphically do amazing things with 2D games).
If you want to point me towards a video where they are displaying things where it's like "Man, that's really awesome. It's doing something you can only find on Wii retail!", then by all means, go for it. "There are a million sprites on the screen at once!" is great. Gamecube can do that too. D:
I'm just saying, if it's $50, then it better have enough levels and extras to warrant that. If it's in the $40 range, then I think it's fine, since it's between what I expect of a DS and a Wii game.
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