RUMOR - More inside info on StarFox Zero facing development troubles

For those that need a refresher, Liam has been involved with digging up all sorts of information on cancelled and unreleased game projects. His information has been confirmed as spot-on multiple times, so I'd take this info as very trustworthy. Thanks to Lars for the heads up!

Categories: Rumors, Consoles
Games: StarFox Zero


Top Rated Comment

This reminds me of Miyamoto's persistence on getting motion controls in Skyward Sword, and getting it done right. If they're still struggling getting the gamepad controls to work for SFZ, I'm sure they'll delay it again. When there's real problems like this (if it indeed is a problem and this rumor is true), Miyamoto is known to and will delay things.

And if it wasn't for these gamepad controls, we wouldn't be getting a new Star Fox game. Yeah, the life of the franchise is dependent on gameplay gimmicks like this, it's a reason why a new F-zero isn't being made either. Not saying that the gimmick is a bad thing, or will be bad. I have hope it'll turn out good and be fun. I think Miyamoto has the right idea with his decisions, and aside from maybe Sticker Star, they've all been pretty good if you ask me. So I say keep the gamepad, as long as they make it work, and make it fun. I'm sure it's a challenge to accomplish as a developer.

I hope this gets delayed until after E3... I don't wanna play a broken game.

Why does it seem like everyone here is taking this as fact? Did I miss something, cause the reactions of the people who played the updated version compared to E3's say it improved greatly.

How and why is this an issue now when it has two more months until release?

They can't really start manufacturing, packaging, and distribution until the game is finished...

So it still isn't fully finished yet?

Mon Feb 08 16 08:09pm
Rating: 1

Just delay it. I'd rather wait and get a great game than it be rushed out and get a terrible one.

I will say, though, if they do delay it, IDK where things stand with online play, but it really should have it. Like, if it don't at this point, that's a major disappointment.

I hope maybe that's where the problem lies. The online multiplayer being secret and they're just having trouble getting it to run smooth because like others have said the actual demos at events seemed to play without a problem.

Looking at Mario Tennis and Amiibo Crossing, I'm betting my retirement funds on them just rushing it out the door! HO HO HO!

They just need to accept that Miyamoto, as great as he used to be, is pretty much making stupid decisions now when it comes to his persistence on making games the way he wants it to be. They need to just let him retire already.

I feel that if Platinum were allowed to make the game the way THEY wanted it to be, it would be greatly improved. I could care less about the graphics (To me those were the least of my worries) but the emphasis on heavy gamepad usage seems a bit concerning if it's causing a QA disaster. I don't want SFZ to be another Legend of Korra

Mon Feb 08 16 08:15pm
Rating: 1

Maybe a forced retirement is in order? No doubt with Kimishima at the helm there could be some big changes!

They don't need to be aggressive... Yet. Sticker star was another thing people disliked from him yet it got good critical reception for doing something new (take that as you will), and Pikmin 3 was enjoyed by a lot of folks. Honestly they'd only really need to force him to leave if SF0 becomes the Star Fox version of Sonic Spinball for Game Gear (A buggy, crashing mess of a game that you don't even want to spend a minute LOOKING at due to how horrible it is). If anything they should just make him the Pikmin leader, like Aonuma is the Zelda leader.

It took him like 6 years to get Pikmin 2.5 out the door. Don't get me wrong, I liked Pikmin 3 a HO HO whole lot, but its uninventive design convinced me that Miyamoto is in his twilight years. Wii Music, Sticker Star, and now the Star Fox incident further cement this truth. The time for action is now!

Reason why is they have the dude seeing a lot of projects now adays. I too wish they never promoted him to what he is now because that took huge time away from making great games. But they wanted him up there to learn from him just incase the day ever came if he wasn't around anymore & also teach the other co friends how to make games.

Now S.M said him & others are not inputing their say on what NX should be so this time I think they are letting the man be free to make his own games I hope. I know you want him gone now but that won't ever happen because we all know Nin wouldn't be the Nin we know today if it wasn't for S.M.

I really liked Sticker Star once I dropped my preconceived notions of what a Paper Mario game should be.

But as good as it was after that, it also made me REALLY REALLY want a true Paper Mario RPG again.

Mon Feb 08 16 09:41pm
(Updated 1 time)

I ignored Sticker Star once I heard that Miyamoto laid his hands on it and removed the story. Granted, Super Paper Mario really ruined my impression of the entire series, which is why I only really like the N64 game in terms of PM games, so perhaps sticker star was better than that horrendous mess of a game on the Wii. I found the 2D-3D mechanic and the story to be mind-bogglingly confusing, but the N64 game was simple fun with a nice story to boot.

I was surprised that I enjoyed Super Paper Mario even though it was a departure from the previous two RPGs. It definitely fell more towards the platforming side of the Mario spectrum, but I didn't find it so hard I couldn't overcome it. But if you were disappointed by both, I can see why you'd be leery of Miyamoto's other games Smile

Same here when it comes to enjoying both SPM and Sticker Star. I loved Paper Mario and its sequel, but I don't want to keep playing the same thing over and over. I think the departures both the Wii and 3DS outings took kept my interest in the series going. To each their own, I guess.

This nails it, really. Same with Super Paper Mario.

SPM had a great story, with less charm in the overall characters and "helper" Picks. You don't remember NPCs or areas all that much. They all blur together. The gameplay was fun (except a certain area), but it looked bland and lacked the charming battles.

Sticker Star lacked a decent story, lacked good characters, etc. That said, it was still an interesting adventure with interesting puzzles.

Honestly, early on, I stopped doing battles except for money. It was a waste of time & stickers to do fights. Once I stopped doing them, suddenly the game felt more fun. It was like, once I stopped, a switch went off and it became a new game. It became a PAPER Mario, embracing the paper itself and having fun with the concept.

I still want the next to be a "real" sequel to TTYD, but I don't dislike the experiments.

I just hate how it got to that point. The fact it would have been normal, and Miyamoto said to basically ruin it for a silly reason, and devs are too afraid to stand against him.

What stupid decisions?

That's what they said about Wind Waker, Mario 3D World, Splatoon, Skyward Sword, the DS, etc.

With Nintendo you better wait and see, instead of bash before you play it.

Oh I'm going to play it right when it comes out, so if it happens to be secretly well designed and not a technical mess like Devil's Third ended up then It'll blow me away. I'm just nervous like the rest of the fans. I've only been waiting for a new SF game since SF643D. I can't imagine how painful it is for those who've been waiting since Assault or 64, and that's why I hope it has the Platinum quality. They managed to make Skyward Sword go from a technical nightmare (See E3 2010) to a lovely work of art that's a fun take, so I don't completely distrust Miyamoto yet, just a bit uneasy. I feel like we need a SF0 direct before launch to clear things up.

Well, I'll wait and see. Star Fox Zero is a main title, it's not Mario Tennis or Amiibo Festival.

And when it comes to their main games, Nintendo always deliver a polished experience. Hell, that's exactly why we're seeing these news here.

Maybe that game is very playable and any other company would give a OK for release. But since this Nintendo, they are: "nope, Platinum, we can't accept your game until you make it right".

Also, about Devil's Third... You said it's a "technical mess"... Tell me something, did you actually bought the game played it? Or are you said this because that's what the websites and professional reviewers are saying about the game?

Honestly, I wanna know why you're saying Devil's Third is a "technical mess".

Mon Feb 08 16 09:35pm
(Updated 1 time)

I hope you're right regarding SF0. It was supposed to be the big game of the holiday season, so you'd think that they'd be constantly promoting it and getting fans hyped...

DT is a game I DO want to play and see for myself, but alas it's sold out everywhere. I'm really calling it a technical mess based off of the fact that it has proven framerate drops among other technical things. The game could be the best thing ever, but that still wouldn't excuse the framerate and the other technical problems that many (not just reviewers) have pointed out. I've seen the miiverse and know that folks like the game, and that's good for them! I was more of less cautious on it's performance aspect rather than the fun factor (which as you said, is something that one can decide once they have the game for themselves. If Nintendo ever puts up a demo for the game, count me in to try it and see for myself, even with the minor issues. Of course this wouldn't be a problem in the first place if the retail copy wasn't so hard to find for MSRP...)

The game is getting restocked right now. On Amazon they're gonna get copies on Feburary 10 and GameStop already has more copies of it.

And no, nobody proved the game is a "technical mess". All we have are reviews from "professional" journalists saying that.

That's why I asked you that. This Devil's Third situation pisses me off, because these guys are lying to us and this actuallty resulted in Nintendo not giving the game a proper release . These guys are hurting the gaming industry with their BS.

Hell, after playing it, I want a sequel because the ending teases a sequel. A lot of people on Miiverse also want it: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHkzJKojqg

However, I'm pretty Nintendo won't be working with Itagaki anymore because of... Well, because of IGN, GameInformer, Jim Sterling, etc. That really pisses me off.

I've played Devil's Third for over 30 hours now and here are "technical mess" I found:

1. Yes, the game has slowdown issues, but they usually happen when you're not in combat. Slowdown happens when you're going from one area to another, so it probably has something to do with the game loading the rest of the level before you get there.

And that's about it. That's the "terrible" framerate these journalists were talking about. The framerate never drops when you're actually playing the game, when you're in combat. Really, I've seen many games that got 8 and 9 and had a lot more framerate issues than Devil's Third.

2. When you're in the beginning of a level, sometimes you're gonna see some textures taking too long to load. It's kind of wierd, but it doesn't impacts the game, and you'll usually see that when you're starting a level only.

3. In terms of Glicthes, well, sometimes you'll see an enemy clipping through a wall after you kill him... And, yeah, that's the biggest glitch I found in the after 30 hours of gameplay. In terms of gliches, the game is pretty much flawless, there's nothing that will impact your gameplay experience.

So yeah, that's about it. That's the "technical mess" they're talking about. And none of these problems actually influence the gameplay.

Devil's Third is actually above avarage in terms of how solid its performance is. It's runs a lot better than games like Fallout 4, The Witcher 3 and Assassin's Creed.

Here's a few reviews from people who are not trying to clickbait by bashing the game (one of them even says what I said here: the framerate only drops when you're not in combat):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMyErBVajOo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKJ_5CJ6r6o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqiXpXR8iU4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMZo7eZCQ7E (this one is my review)

The thing about Devil's Third is that it looks rather fun and I'd love to try it out but I'm not in the slightest interested in the solo campaign. The multiplayer though looks like it is by far the best aspect of the game. I really think they could have made more money by just working on the multiplayer and making it a big eShop release but hey, that was not their choice unfortunately.

It's just a pity that they didn't gave us a choice when it comes to this game, since the two campaigns are so clearly seprated. It's like they're two different games. They should let us buy only the multiplayer campaign for a reduced price on the eShop. I'd be all over this. On top of that, it exists on the PC version so why not Wii U?

Because it's a shooter, the single-player may look like like Call of Duty, in other words, something generic.

But it's actually the oposite. The levels are all very different, there are a lot of crazy enemies (ninjas, zombies, guys with chainsaws, giant monsters with jetpacks, stealth sexy famale ninjas). And the hack and slash part makes it feel like you're playing Bayonetta sometimes. The boss battles are also pretty insane.

And the plot and character are all crazy, pretty similar to what we saw in No More Heroes.

Have you even played Devils Third? Yes the controls do get some getting used to, but I don't see how people say it's a technical mess. I've been playing it since Christmas and I'm rather enjoying myself. Do I wish there were some changes? Sure, but I wasn't expecting a COD type game from a smaller developer with less experience with such a goal. I'm honestly just curious what technical messes you've come across?

Skyward Sword is the worst selling main line Zelda game on the console with the most user base. It was also terrible due to its reliance on motion controls among many other things.

Miyamoto made Wii Music, he demanded the story be ignored while Sticker Star was being made, he demanded that Fox be inserted in DInosaur Planet, etc... Miyamoto had his share of failures. He's done much for this industry, but he's not omnipotent.

In my humble opinion, Nintendo needs to stop it with the gimmicks and forcing their vision. People don't want it.

Tue Feb 09 16 05:16am
(Updated 1 time)

Regarding Miyamoto's imput, some of these points are debatable.

Majora's Mask is the worst selling console Zelda game being in the 3m range. Then there is Skyward Sword and Wind Waker above 4m. Then there is Ocarina and Twilight Princess above the 7m range, with Twilight Princess getting a slight boost thanks to being released on two different platforms and that makes TP the best selling Zelda game (it's one of the worst in my opinion, but hey sales never reflect quality right?).

The way I see it, Skyward Sword managed to sell more than 4m, which is very reasonable, even if it was probably the toughest sell in the series. It was the end of the console cycle, there was already an immensily successful Zelda game on the same console, it had people criticizing its control scheme in a harsh way, it had a special graphical style that aimed at bypassing the problem with SD visuals, HD was well implemented and had become the norm, etc, etc... This game and Other M were probably the toughest sells and some of the biggest risk-taking this industry has ever seen.

So, all things considered, the 1:1 motion controls might very well have been what helped SS sell what it sold, because people were willing to give it a try and that shows interest in the whole 1:1 sword fight thing. That doesn't mean everyone liked it in the end, but it certainly helped moving copies.

And for Starfox Adventures, same thing here, if you look at how sucessful Rare games were, you'll see a pattern. Especially at the end of the 64 cycle: Banjo-Kazooie? Pretty good. Banjo-Tooie, not so hot. Conker? Not very good. On the other hand, what happened when they decided to slap Diddy Kong on Rare's racing game? Boom, Diddy Kong's Racing, huge success. What happened when they decided to slap Donkey Kong on what is ultimately the Banjo-Kazooie formula, no more no less? Boom, Donkey Kong 64, that's what happened. Money happened.

So they saw a pattern where Rare games with Nintendo licences sell more, even a lot more, than Rare's own licences. Now considering this, don't you think slapping Star Fox on Dinosaur Planet is probably what helped the title in the end? That's probably the case. Star Fox Adventures ended up selling almost 2m on the Gamecube. Compared to the other launch titles, it did pretty well. It sold better than Rogue Squadron. It sold better than Eternal Darkness or Wave Race.

I completely agree though, that Wii Music was an absolute failure, and I'm not saying Miyamoto can't fail. He's not god, he's had his share of failures of course. I can't speak for Sticker Star. I haven't played it yet but it seems like complaints regarding this title in particular are justified.

Sorry that ended up a super long post.

"Majora's Mask is the worst selling console Zelda game being in the 3m range. Then there is Skyward Sword and Wind Waker above 4m."

MM: 3.36m
WW: 4.43m
SS: 3.67m


Tue Feb 09 16 06:16am
(Updated 2 times)

Okay I was talking initial releases only, not including remakes, and only 3D mainline titles. So that would be OoT (64)/MM (64)/WW (GC)/TP (Wii and GC)/SS (Wii).

As for the numbers, looks like there are different numbers out there. I've always seen this 4m something copies for SS so I didn't go check more sources.

If anything it shows that MM, SS and WW are in the same range, and that makes it a lot less dramatic than how it first sounded in Vigilante_Blade's post. Not that I don't partly agree with him, just not on that point.

EDIT: Anyway, out of 5 titles, we have three 3/4 million sellers and two more than 7 million sellers. That combined to the Wii U being trhe worst selling Nintendo console ever makes me really think Zelda U will in fact be Zelda U/NX.

"Okay I was talking initial releases only, not including remakes, and only 3D mainline titles."

If that is the case, then you should have said 'The worst-selling home console Zelda that is not a remake, is not a spin-off, is 3D, and is not multiplatform with its port releasing in the same time-frame'.

"As for the numbers, looks like there are different numbers out there"

The charts I linked are based directly on information from Nintendo's financial reports.

"I've always seen this 4m something copies for SS"

Probably people parroting VG Lolz's nonsense.

"If anything it shows that MM, SS and WW are in the same range, and that makes it a lot less dramatic than how it first sounded in Vigilante_Blade's post"

Oh, I make no comment on what the data shows. I am just a fan of precise language and accurate numbers. Razz

Wed Feb 10 16 03:22am
(Updated 1 time)

Yes I can see that and I very much respect it :D

You win this round.

Tue Feb 09 16 09:32am
(Updated 1 time)

Not sure if you should count the GC release of TP separately. And WWHD is of course not going to move too many units, considering it's a rerelease. If anything, it should be added to WW sales.
Hyrule Warriors isn't a Zelda game in the scope of this discussion -- they're talking about traditional The Legend of Zelda games.
Four Swords Adventure I can concede, though I could also argue that this was an incredible niche of a game and can be discounted based on that

EDIT: Ah, I was beaten to it.

"Not sure if you should count the GC release of TP separately. And WWHD is of course not going to move too many units, considering it's a rerelease. If anything, it should be added to WW sales."


I have no horse in this particular race, but if one wants to compare the relative sales of Zelda games, it seems rather arbitrary to add together TP and WW's various versions across multiple platforms and console generations while only counting OOT and MM's sales on one system when they have their own re-releases.

(For the sake of thoroughness, said re-releases would give them an extra 3.7m and 2.03 m, respectively.)

Well, let me clarify that I mean that WWHD shouldn't be counted at all, but that if you were to count it, it shouldn't be counted as something separate. I think the same goes for OoT and MM (though this case is slightly different from WWHD and TPHD).
Twilight Princess for the Gamecube and Wii were released so close together that nobody would buy two of the same game and can be considered part of the same release. That's why I don't know if it's fair to separate the GC sales from the Wii sales to make the comparison that Thorn-Rock wanted to make.

Tue Feb 09 16 03:18pm
(Updated 1 time)

"Twilight Princess for the Gamecube and Wii were released so close together that nobody would buy two of the same game and can be considered part of the same release."

On the other hand, motion-controls make the differences between playing TPGC and playing TPWii much greater than the differences between playing OOT/MM/WW and their remakes.

"nobody would buy two of the same game"

hey, you take that back, I'm more of a heartless than a nobody.

"That's why I don't know if it's fair to separate the GC sales from the Wii sales to make the comparison that Thorn-Rock wanted to make."

What precisely is the function of a comparison between a game on multiple platforms vs games on only one beyond the rather obvious conclusion that games sell more units when companies release them on more consoles?

I do not really think it is reasonable to assume that if Nintendo had only released TP on the GC, then all 7.26m of TPWii owners would have still purchased it.

The point for TP isn't the difference in controls, it's that they released close together to the point that (almost) nobody would buy it twice in that timeframe, just to have it on two different consoles. A re-release many years later is more likely to be "double dipped".

As for your latter point, I can give you that to a degree, though the original point of Thorn-Rock is trying to assess (through sales numbers) how good a game is and then trying to correlate it to Miyamoto's input. For this purpose, it's a bit odd to call TP GC (one of) the worst-selling Zelda title (though technically correct) when TP as a whole sold really well, thus showing it's likely to be a good game in the eye of many.
That said, Thorn-Rock even addressed these two issues, calling attention to the likely boost TP got from releasing on two consoles and that sales numbers don't necessarily correlate to quality.

Anyway, what I'm just really trying to say it that I can appreciate wanting to be technically right... but nitpicking a comment this much while the meaning and intent behind it is clear, that just seems odd to me

"The point for TP isn't the difference in controls, it's that they released close together"

If they are functionally different games with functionally different selling-points that sell them to functionally-different audiences, what is the relevance of releasing closely together?

"the original point of Thorn-Rock is trying to assess (through sales numbers) how good a game is and then trying to correlate it to Miyamoto's input."

Right, and that point is better served simply by focusing solely on TPWii's sales because it accomplished those sales on one platform, the way every other game in the comparison did.

"nitpicking a comment this much while the meaning and intent behind it is clear, that just seems odd to me"

Technically, I stopped nitpicking thorn-rock's comment about four posts ago. Right now I am simply disagreeing with the arguments you are putting forth in defense of said comment.


Where are you getting your numbers, because last time I checked, Majora's Mask sold better.

Also, Wii Motion Plus is not 1:1. Never was. It tries to sort of average out your movements. There is a lot of interpretation of the Wiimote's end, as well as noticeable input lag. It may have helped in moving copies... But I doubt it. People who bought this game would likely have bought it no matter what. Furthermore, it has contributed in people not buying the game. It may have been a zero sum game, or worse, a loss.

I don't mind long posts, just not every day, lol

I guess that's a possibility. As for the numbers, Hamr has the good ones there and we're both wrong ^^

I'd be happy to check which games have been profitable in the Zelda series since it's one of these series that are super expensive to produce and typically sell well, but not crazy well.

As for long posts, I swear I sort of work on it.

It may have helped in moving copies... But I doubt it
Furthermore, it has contributed in people not buying the game
First you simply doubt it moved more copies, and then you flat-out say it made people not buy the game? How can you even state the latter so matter-of-factly? Do you have a source?

Do YOU have a source?

And try to understand my argument here: You say it may have moved copies because some people wanted to try the gimmicks. I heavily doubt it, but let's say that I give that to you. I can argue that it didn't sell some copies because of the motion controls. For instances, I did not buy Skyward Sword and I am a BIG fan of Zelda games.

I made no claims. Why would I need a source? What would I seriously even have a source for?

Also, Wii Motion Plus is not 1:1. Never was. It tries to sort of average out your movements. There is a lot of interpretation of the Wiimote's end, as well as noticeable input lag.

Which is why they've taken all that into account when making games like Wii Sports Resort and LOZ:SS, so that said games are still completely playable.

Wed Feb 10 16 01:01pm
(Updated 2 times)

I would beg to differ as someone who beat the entire game and had TONS of trouble. with the controller desynching, Link having seizures, being only adapted to right-handed players, and Link swiping whenever I was completely still... or worse... not even holding the controller. It felt a lot like trial and error at times... until I realized that no skill could be gained as it is you are not responsible for these failures on the controller's part to register your intent.

If you have a working copy of the game and a decent pair of controllers, there should be no problem. I played tons of Wii Sports Resort and Skyward Sword, and it's nearly flawless.

You might want to check your house for demons, because if what you say is true, your copy is possessed.

And I am almost serious about that. Check your house for interference, because those problems are not normal.

I don't really think Miyamoto had much to do with some of those. Nor was he particularly aggressive with the things they did with them.

Not to mention, for every good decision there was still a bad decision he made. Doesn't mean he hasn't made them. Sticker Star, Wii Music, things he did to Steel Driver's development, and even stuff he did to Link's Crossbow Training (it was actually going to be a potentially decent side game).

Star Fox Zero can obviously be given a chance, and people will give it one, but chances are, all the bad decisions will have been his doing. Much like when Sakamoto was making bad decisions for Metroid.

Unfortunately, we don't have Iwata Asks anymore. If we did, we'd be even more furious about it.

Well, I'm pretty sure Miyamoto didn't have too much to do with Skyward Sword 1:1 controls. He probably was an influence toward it, but what really sold the deal was Wii Sport Resort apparently. Aonuma loved it and told his team to get back to motion controls only.

Sometimes it is as simple as Miyamoto's influence.

Or even just saying something in passing, since that seems to be what led to Start Fox Adventures taking over Dinosaur Planet.

True that. I imagine he is still a huge influence and will remain influencial even as he is having less responsibilities over time.

He is pretty much Aonuma's sensei and Tezuka is his buddy. The Splatoon guys also are his students and they just made 4 million copies with a brand new IP in a new genre. So I imagine even after he retires, we won't be done with Miyamoto design philosophy. Good.

His design philosophy was fine, as well as the inspiration he created from the past.

It is what he has become.

The frustrating thing is that I think he still has it in him, he has even shown in some Iwata Asks that he was annoyed at how easy some Game he was doing was, and that he wants them to be harder, but he has to think about others.

No, you don't. The dumbing down they do is TOO much. Keep difficulty settings or whatever baby mode options they want, but stop worrying about discouraging newcomers with high difficulty when it discourages others for low difficulty. How do they think we became fans in the 80s or 90s?

To be fair, the times have changed drastically. Nowadays, kids have free access to simple, easy games and don't really wish for anything else. If you make a super-difficult game, then those kids would definitely lose interest immediately.
Of course, having difficulty settings is the best solution. It provides something for both worlds. But I'm just saying that what made us fans in the 80s/90s won't make people fans nowadays,

To be honest I think they handle difficulty right for the most part in the Mario series even if the beginning (2 or 3 first worlds) of the games are often ridiculously easy. That was the case with 3D World for example, it really took time to really take off. Thank god there was this ton of awesome unlockable levels at the end but I think even the 'main campaign' if that makes sense for a Mario game should benefit from being slightly harder from the start. Mario Galaxy 2 is a perfect example of how it should be done.

The Metroid games seem well balanced, just like the DKC games from Retro. The Zelda games though? They're almost there but they really need to embrace the hero mode and always make it available from the start. The Pikmin games are not super hard, but I think they are not too bad and the overall difficulty suits the style of the game. The last Yoshi and Kirby games have gotten better.

To be fair, and maybe surprisingly, it's mainly Zelda and Mario games they need to work on.

The way I remember it is... Aonuma really wanted it and tried it, but he couldn't find a way to make it fun, so he had given up on it for the time being. Then he saw Wii Sports Resort and semi-copied those controls for use in Skyward Sword, making it fun.

Yeah I remembered it was something like that. Thanks.

Tue Feb 09 16 02:08pm
(Updated 1 time)

Replying to the other comment (can't believe we are still limited to these weird x replies things):

Fair enough, but you would think slamming some games with 2 hour tutorials would also turn those kids off.

Even ignoring difficulty, what makes everyone enjoy a game is being able to pick it up and just start playing. Sure, story can be involved, but people just want to start. If NSMB did anything right, it is that.

Getting thrust into the world with a few explanations here and there (or decent hints) feels more right. Jump in, learn yourself, no halting. Also, make cutscenes skippable for those that are impatient. Difficulty levels for everyone.

Then be mindful of enemy placement, not just doing more damage. Make it fun, but never dull. There should be some breaks, but generally want to keep fighting and relaxing well-paced.

I can completely agree with this. It should be engaging and it should give people the opportunity to learn for themselves.

Mon Feb 08 16 08:47pm
(Updated 1 time)

In case you didn't know, Miyamoto was asked (forced, perhaps?) to make games that heavily integrate the Wii U Gamepad. Maybe he didn't feel much about making Star Fox in the first place, so he outsourced PG to see if they could do heads or tails about it.

Yeah.... the very idea of making a game around a peripheral is a bad idea. The focus should be on the game itself.

Mon Feb 08 16 08:47pm
Rating: 1

Could Miyamoto be turning into the George Lucas of video games?

Haha ^^
Not even close ^^

Mon Feb 08 16 10:57pm
(Updated 1 time)

Miyamoto, Sakurai, and Tanabe need to retire IMO. They all have made questionable decisions as of late. Might as well throw whoever is in charge of intelligent systems in with them as well. The Splatoon team has shown that the young developers at Nintendo are more than capable of producing fresh and new content. I'm gonna say it, I think Splatoon is the BEST game Nintendo has made in the last 8 years. (Though I do love DKC:TF but that's retro).

Sakurai is 45 and you want him to retire...!? Also, what questionable stuff has he done?

Melee fan, I guess.

Also wanting people to retire is not the proper expression. The proper expression is: wanting people to be laid-off. That's the harsh reality of what it is and people tend to use managerial world euphemism way too much imo.

I do not exactly want him to retire, but I want to see him focus on new projects unrelated to Smash. We need someone more willing to take input and criticism in charge.

Of course you don't and that was more in reaction to Destructo94's post.
I know it's just an expression but I really think people on the internet tend to wish companies to go bankrupt and people to be laid-off very quickly.

I know most of the time it doesn't mean much and maybe I'm just being annoying, but yeah.

Upvoting comments is dumb. Do you know how skewed this is. If I could downvote I would, besides, why do we need comment voting anyway, it is clearly unnecessary. Especially top comment. *sigh*

Upvoting can only be a good thing if we can also downvote.
Problem is, people need to be educated in using upvotes and downvotes because when given the option, some people often don't bother upvoting even if they like something but will downvote anytime they just slightly disagree with something.

Also there is aniother problem: what does upvote and downvote mean anyway?
- does it mean that you agree or disagree with the content of the news?
- does it mean that you think this is good news or bad news?
- can downvoting be used to explain that you disagree with this piece of news being covered on gonintendo?

All these are very different and in the end the meaning of it is very unclear.

These issues were sadly there for articles. It was often a bit ambiguous what someone meant when they downvoted (or upvoted) an article.

Then I guess it would be better not to have upvotes. What do you think?

Tue Feb 09 16 01:14pm
(Updated 1 time)

Hm, I do not mind upvotes and downvotes. I'm fine with them on articles and comments alike.
Though, for comments, it might be good to not allow a score to go below 0. Some people are especially... vindictive with their votes and can downvote a comment to oblivion. Denying a post to go below 0 prevents this, at least, while people can still receive the feedback for good posts by seeing a positive score. Right now, the only way we can see if a comment has been upvoted is if it is top comment, which is a terrible system.
I also don't understand why we can only give 5 upvotes a day for comments. Sometimes I see more than 5 super-insightful comments and I just have to pick. Or I reserve upvotes in the morning just in case I come across better comments during the night. That just makes people manage their upvotes in a way they shouldn't. I mean, I understand they're trying to prevent upvote abuse, but this doesn't seem the way.

Yeah quite frankly I'm not sure it is super useful as it is. I use it when I see posts that I find interesting or even fun sometimes but as you said once the daily five upvotes are gone, they're gone, so what do I do with that awesome post I inevitably come accross 5 minutes later?

As it is, it's mainly mindless fun, it doesn't mean much, it doesn't really allow us to express anything, it doesn't help with anything.

Indeed. He has shown to be a very inefficient manager.

Projects taking too long, keeping teams smaller just because, "flipping the table" just because he wants to, giving projects that draw mainstream audiences (like 2D Mario) B teams with mediocre results and hiring a mediocre game designer like aounuma, in charge of zelda, even though the man has stated that he doesn't like zelda and making the series down-spiraling should have been enough reason to retire him and put more competent people in charge.

There's a reason why Yamauchi didn't made him a president. He may be a great game designer but he is a terrible manager.

He's already kinda doing that, thankfully. At the very least, he's stepping back from supervisory roles, as Creative Fellow, he just gives advice if people need it.

Kimishima is stressing that he wants new developers and directors to be front and center, so hopefully we'll see the results of that soon. I feel we already did with Splatoon.

I wonder if that random delayed release date (July, was it?) that showed up on a website could be when this game gets delayed to. I don't think Wii U needs three major games between March and April when the other option is to spread them out and release a better product in the summer.

I want this game to be good, so I hope Nintendo takes the necessary action to make it happen.

Nintendo's insistance at using gimmicks to sell consoles has really gotten annoying.

Very much agreed. Can't they just make good games with normal controls like they used to? I just want to have a fun time without having to deal with gimmicky shoehorns.

Mon Feb 08 16 08:41pm
Rating: 1

If this is all stemmed from the gamepad ideas then I hope they see what a disaster it has caused with delays. I really feel like Star Fox suffered from Nintendo's (Miyamoto) desperation to come up with new gameplay ideas, since the gamepad had not been used as widely as they probably had hoped for with unique experiences. All very unnecessary IMO. They could have used the gamepad in other ways that just enhance the existing core gameplay on the television screen. Off screen play alone is a great feature, which my family uses all the time. They should have surprised everyone and went with a SF Adventures sequel.

I feel it would be fine to simply have traditional controls (which should be in all games) and simply have off TV play for those who want it. No one has to be left out.

If motion controls are the issue, then remove them, and give us traditional controls :P

Amen to that, I don't understand why they had to get rid of something that already worked well (traditional controllers)

Like I said in the other thread, I'm down with motion controls. And I trust Nintendo more than most companies when it comes to knowing just how much to put into a game. But if it's at the point where it is actively ruining the game, then I say they should cut their losses, just have basic optional gyro controls, and ship it with off-TV play. I have no idea why Miyamoto feels the end to totally upend a tried-and-true control scheme.

Nintendo needs to move on from gimmicks, quickly. I understand the desire to try something new, I really do, but it is not only negatively dividing this fanbase and whittling it down, it's also causing development problems as well as driving Nintendo away from what made them great: Making enjoyable, intuitive games (keep in mind, I don't necessarily think intuitive means easy, just that it controls well).

When I was a kid, Nintendo games were precise, spot-on when it came to controls. They were often the first to find clever ways to improve, or even set the standard for many given genres of software. A wide array of combat systems evolved from Ocarina of Time. The majority of platformers today take inspiration from Super Mario Bros, and the majority of 3D platformers evolved from Super Mario 64. They didn't need gimmicks for this, they just programmed interesting systems.

I love Nintendo IP, but not gimmicks.

Mon Feb 08 16 09:26pm
Rating: 1

See, rather than thinking that Miyamoto is just senile and incompetent the way you guys do, my operating theory is that he has simply been intentionally trying to undermine Nintendo's other teams for the past several years.

-Making Donkey Kong blow in DKCR
-Steel Diver having almost no content
-Removing the RPG elements and humor from Sticker Star
-The two-screen aiming nonsense in Star Fox Zero
-Wanting to introduce time-warp shenanigans to justify giving Link a machinegun

Perhaps senility could explain one or maybe two of these suggestions, but *all of them*? No way.

(Also, if we are going to break out the pitchforks over second-hand gossip, let us at least be fair about it: The tweets in question do not specifically mention Miyamoto or the controls at all. Platinum has always sucked at railshooter gameplay, so these problems could just as easily be on their hands.)

A fair theory, but it leaves the question... Why?

Tue Feb 09 16 03:38am
Rating: 1

Subtle hint/cry-for-help that he wants the teams to stop coming to him for advice on every single game.

Kind of like how he issued a challenge to the Splatoon team to come up with better character designs on their own or else he was just going to stick Mario in there.

Baby birds gotta spread their wings and fly someday.

That's what I thought. I believe you (or someone else) mentioned this theory before. I remember it vaguely.
At that time, I thought it was a bit of nonsense, but I am honestly starting to agree with it a bit more. I don't think it's necessarily true, but I do see where you're coming from and I can consider it a possibility

Hahaha okay that made me laugh out loud ^^

I had never thought of that and it's probably the best Nintendo related theory I've seen in quite some time.

I just want Miyamoto to confirm this at some point. When he retires maybe ^^

This is really concerning to hear. Keeping my fingers crossed that it works out. Sad

When did we start to worry about Nintendo QA? We'll run with any old rumor these days. E3 can't come soon enough

Mon Feb 08 16 09:50pm
(Updated 1 time)

Nobody knows for sure if it'll pass QA with a thumbs up.

Didn't expect to hear that. Very worrying...
due to the motion controls, eh? Yeah. I rather see another delay than a game with problems. Hope it turns out okay

IF these rumors had been around the last delay, sure I'd think there was some plausibility behind them, however the entire point of the current 3 month delay that already happened was to hone the story not the gameplay. and these guys have a 50/50 chance of being complete lies that's why they are called rumors.

.... There are, like, official manuals printed for this game already. Why should we care about this?

I thought this was launching this month. When did it move to April?

Mon Feb 08 16 10:28pm
(Updated 1 time)

I don't think it's even possible for Nintendo to go back to traditional controls. I mean sure as long as they include a "pro" controller as they're naming those now they'll keep that. Just wished they didn't sell them for so much. So they'll continue with the... uh... innovated controls.

This reminds me of Miyamoto's persistence on getting motion controls in Skyward Sword, and getting it done right. If they're still struggling getting the gamepad controls to work for SFZ, I'm sure they'll delay it again. When there's real problems like this (if it indeed is a problem and this rumor is true), Miyamoto is known to and will delay things.

And if it wasn't for these gamepad controls, we wouldn't be getting a new Star Fox game. Yeah, the life of the franchise is dependent on gameplay gimmicks like this, it's a reason why a new F-zero isn't being made either. Not saying that the gimmick is a bad thing, or will be bad. I have hope it'll turn out good and be fun. I think Miyamoto has the right idea with his decisions, and aside from maybe Sticker Star, they've all been pretty good if you ask me. So I say keep the gamepad, as long as they make it work, and make it fun. I'm sure it's a challenge to accomplish as a developer.

Refreshing comment amongst a sea of pessimism.

The problem is that we wanted a Star Fox game in the vein that we know and love, not a gimmick Star Fox game. The very fact that a gimmick was needed to bring back Star Fox is very, very concerning.

But you can still play this with a Pro Controller, so why whine about it?

They never announced it.

If only that were possible. (Referring to your last line)

Well.. a man can dream.

What don't you understand by "I don't want to use the Gamepad"?

And stop whining about me disagreeing with you. (using the whiner card is old and stupid)

You said "I don't want gimmicks", though. Not "I don't want to use the Gamepad". And that's what SergioMonty provided: An option to control Starfox Zero without gimmicks

The Gamepad is a gimmick. Simple.

Please, stop whining about me whining about your whining. Heh

First of all, you never said ANYTHING about the gamepad. So I don't think there's anything to understand there. Have fun not playing Splatoon.

And holy crap! I'm so sorry! I'll send a letter to my friend Miyamoto so he knows that you don't want to use the gamepa... oh? what's that? Oh, right, it's not my fault. Stop spreading your whiny tears on me. I have nothing to do with Ninty's decisions.

Ooookay... I'm talking to one of "those" fanboys. I won't even try, kid.

Tue Feb 09 16 08:29am
Rating: 1

Could you stop saying "we" when you are talking about yourself for once?

We get it that YOU don't like motion controls, but others do. Let the game have both so we all can have our fun.

Tue Feb 09 16 11:07pm
(Updated 1 time)

I talk as one of the many people who hate motion controls. "We" is a valid term. If you look at say... the comments section of Nintendo everything, a website full of people who are very, very loyal to Nintendo, even they are getting tired of it.

Wed Feb 10 16 03:35am
(Updated 1 time)

And when you look at other comment sections, you'll see that boatloads of people still love them.

Talk for yourself.

EDIT: And as I wrote: have both so both bases can have their fun. Can't be more simple than that.

EDIT: And as I wrote: have both so both bases can have their fun. Can't be more simple than that.

Well, you're talking to Vigilante_blade here. I think his parents were killed by Motion Controls or something, because I see no other reason for someone to hate motion controls this much.

You actually made me smile on this one.

You're overgeneralizing. You can just say "even they are getting tired" as if the whole of Nintendo Everything gets tired of motion controls.

I'm going by majority, not totality.

Wed Feb 10 16 12:59pm
(Updated 1 time)

Look at the PS4 sales Smile. And go look at comments sections of every major gaming sites.

Please be consistent. You were talking about Nintendo Everything. Now you say your source is "PS4 sales" and "comments sections at major gaming sites". How are those sources for Nintendo Everything's lack of enthusiasm?

It is an additional example. And yes, even Nintendo Everything is realizing the error of Nintendo's ways, except the the most die hard.

Despite the gimmick, this seems to be the first Star Fox to pay homage and pull from Star Fox 64. Which is something I've wanted for, oh man, almost twenty years now. Every Star Fox we've gotten since that game played by their own rules, and got a little too continuity heavy. I'm sure those games gathered fans, but I for one have been waiting for another game that played more like SF64, since in my opinion, it's the best game in the series by far.

I agree, I absolutely love Star Fox 64. Hence why it hurts to see them turn it into a gimmick game. I have been waiting for years for a real game.

Well, here's hoping they work out the kinks and it still plays like a good SF64 style game, where the new "gimmicks" work with it and for it, rather than just to be different for different's sake.

Or just remove / make it optional

It already is optional. But no, I disagree, I think they should always strive to add new things, I don't want the exact same game again with better graphics, I want a new experience too. I just want them to make it fun, make it work. And I hope they do.

The new things don't have to be gimmicks. Programming has infinite possibilities. Just make a ne winnovative system with traditional controls.

You just openly deny any facts that are shown to you and that don't fit in your personal agenda, don't you?
Several times I've noticed you stop replying when you're shown something factual. In this case, it's about how the "gimmick" is optional. You can play with gyro controls, and control it with the twin sticks.

But let me guess, the Gamepad itself is a gimmick, so even using the Gamepad as a traditional controller is gimmicky?

Exactly., the gamepad is a gimmick that I do not enjoy using. It's large, bulky, wide, it makes me feel like I'm using the Gamecube's PSO keyboard controller.

Besides, if you can use the gamepad as a traditional controller, there is no reason to not allow pro controller. Hence, if you don't have gimmicks, the pro controller should be allowed by default as they use the exact same buttons.

A lot of nerds seem to know the ins and outs of game development at Nintendo/Platinum Games and have worked with Miyamoto before. I see...

I was wondering when he'd show up to jump on a nice, juicy bit of yellow journalism.

Mon Feb 08 16 11:16pm
Rating: 1

Well it's safe to say there's no way I'll be preordering this game. Best to wait to see how things play out.

Hmm. I haven't been a fan of a lot of Miyamoto's decisions but let's not bash the guy (re: comments above). He's human and will make mistakes just like everyone else. The thing about creative people is that they probably have 20 bad ideas for every 1 idea that was amazingly popular, it's just that no one has heard of them. Creation is a difficult, exhausting process and most of us will never have the talent or force of will to create something even remotely as brilliant as some Miyamoto's games.

Tue Feb 09 16 08:45am
(Updated 1 time)

For all we know... wait, we know nothing anyway this is just rumours...

You see what I mean, for all we know, the problem with the game could very well be Platinum's problem to begin with, not necessarily Miyamoto's. After all the two rail shooter levels in Bayo 1 and 2 were fun because they're just supposed to be silly bonuses, but they're not very convincing to say the least. On top of that what I've seen of the game seemed underwhelming because it was unambitious and looked boring for a Starfox game. Actually the motion controls were the only thing that seems new/interesting/ambitious/bold in this game.

So yeah, indeed, I'm not sure Miyamoto is the person that should be blamed for this. Do we even know how the team handling this game is structured?

I still can't believe this is getting comments. We should all know how video games work. All devs have problems during development. This is NOT new. So why is this an issue now?

I just think Nintendo fans are a little more on edge because of Wii U's failures. Bumps in the road are a little more concerning when they're so frequent.

For all the Miyamoto hate going on here, I'm sure he was also involved in a lot of good decisions recently that we're not aware of.

And really, when it comes to Sticker Star, his suggestion wasn't a bad one. He told the team to make the story just as engaging as before but with an already established set of characters. The goal was to be more innovative, but clearly it didn't work.


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