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More character model/costume alterations found in localized version of Bravely Second

Censorship is becoming a very big topic with Nintendo fans. It seems more and more gamers are digging through games to see just what has been changed from Japanese release to NA/EU versions. Looks like there was more to Bravely Second's localization than first thought.

Categories: Media, Portables

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Top Rated Comment
moldyclay
Mon Feb 29 16 12:54pm
Rating: 4

"Because that was the creator's intent. Omg omg they are ruining it. Boycott!"

Ooooh boy, here we go again.

I think the majority of the costumes look a bit better with that little bit extra, the Summoner's gown looks wonderful with the extra bit of colour in particular.

Looking at these, the question is not why are the skimpier outfits being removed, but why were they in there in the first place?

moldyclay
Mon Feb 29 16 12:54pm
Rating: 4

"Because that was the creator's intent. Omg omg they are ruining it. Boycott!"

tuulenpoika
Mon Feb 29 16 01:01pm
Rating: 2

Not saying to boycott this game or anything, hell, I've played it myself for over nine hours, but not being okay with these changes is nothing to sneer about.

Is there a group of people who are actually angry when Japanese games make their way over here with all their content intact? Oh wait, yes there is, but they sure as hell are not the ones buying the games.

Maybe so, but clearly this stuff doesn't affect sales as much as everyone acts like it will.

Some people specifically said to me, with Fates "Nintendo will see the ramifications of their actions", then it proceeds to have the best "opening weekend" sales, 5x that of Awakening, and I am assuming that didn't even count digital copies/DLC versions. So for as loud as people are, it is clear that the majority simply doesn't care or doesn't know.

I don't mean to undermine it. I don't like censorship as much as the next guy, but I don't let it stop me from enjoying a game. Especially something as minor as this, seeing as I may not even use these classes or whatever that often anyway. It is fine to be upset, but I feel like people are just robbing themselves of good games if they don't buy it.

And unfortunately, if people don't support the Western releases, NOA is not going to see the reason being because of the censorship. They are going to see it as lack of interest in the game/series/etc.

If people want to address it, they need to contact Nintendo directly.

I wonder what that creator was thinking about 8*>

Don't forget casually invoking Godwin's Law and use of the "First They Came For..." blurb before making a long winded, slippery slope argument. Everything that happened with Fire Emblem Fates has officially burned me out on this kind of stuff for the rest of the year.

I agree.

Even if I was outraged, I'm so sick of these articles and the same posts and making the same ones myself.

Articles drawing attention to these things are likely what caused these changes in the first place.

Maybe if we stopped reporting "OMG Fates has petting and naked shops" Nintendo won't see the sensationalistic clickbait names and think people are upset.

moldyclay
Mon Feb 29 16 12:53pm
Rating: 11

For the most part, it is literally just filling in a few spots of skin. It doesn't really do anything to the outfits or change them all that much, and the reason is because the models look like children.

This is literally nothing.

However, cue people getting extremely butthurt over the slits going from skin colored to black.

A bit of a tangent here, but since I've seen it being very common, clothing in evil female villains, is it more empowering showing more or less skin?

I ask this since even Disney has shown both cases.

As for the case presented I suppose the added clothing adds a bit more mainly because of the low poly models. Though if it were in that Dissidia Arcade, I'm not so sure.

This is always a huge debate.

I mean, just look at Bayonetta. Some women find her an empowering character, but there are others that view it as objectification. You really can't win, as people will always look at it differently.

Bayonetta is like Cruella Deville, though on second thought its kind messed up thinking Bayonetta could actually make look nice the idea of wearing an outfit out of angel or demon's parts.

Also it mainly comes back to women right? I mean we still judge about the looks, how they should be portrayed or act. And also be squeamish to how they're victimized when beaten, despite every other action hero has had that. More than looks I think the questions are, is there a line to draw? Should women be treated equally? Or should they be given the same chances just with some specific changes and also if they should have love interests when they're the protagonists?

That's the problem.

People want women protagonists, but get mad when they are beat up like male characters. They get mad when enemies call them names, even though that is the point (and you know, a drive to kill said enemies).

Then you have people who continue to pick things apart.

I mean, when Shattered Memories came out, there were people freaking out at how they portrayed Cheryl's story because "not every girl reacts like that".

There is a whole list of flip-floppy garbage and double standards.

Interestingly, sometimes these are generated by men "protecting" women, so we don't even know what women even want.

I know.

Still I want to believe that writers can be more creative than just using the most worn out insult for females.

Not knowing the context I can't tell if this Cheryl was more criticized because of being a teenager rather than a girl. Since that's another problem. We also get uncomfortable in our realistic games when playing as a child or having children involved. Also tipping in the argument of diversity there's not a lot of variety in age ranges we play in games (at least from a western perspective). Which might also be part of a culture were the most popular heroes are in the thirty age range.

There always have been, though now we can hear opinions from everyone and there are some who more than want to be heard, just want to get what they want regardless of it being good or making sense. Also a thought cross my mind that maybe we don't trust creators handling well women either because of bad precedents and expecting something specific, since we're more or less tired of some tropes.

Also that's a keypoint. Aside from Anita Sarkeesian, there's very few women getting involve in this argument since as we've seen and heard we still discriminate women, and very harshly in this medium. Which in a way the cynic in me believes that is very likely the feminazis as they call them might be more made by men than women.

moldyclay
Mon Feb 29 16 03:26pm
Rating: 1

Anita is also a bad example to use as the "face" of women wanting better treatment. It's been a while since I saw her vids, but I recall her ignoring and writing off a lot of examples of women being playable or treated equally because of "reasons" (and I recall her going "I'm glad I can play Peach in 3D World, but why are we still saving women?"). We need more women from various sides speaking out, not just her.

Funny enough, the bulk of girls I see online tend to like playing BOY characters in various games. Either because they find them cute or simply like the characters/etc. Obviously not the case with all of them, but I know many girls that primarily play men and never cared about having a girl option in some games unless it is an MMO or something along those lines.

Yeah but my point was on how there's really few women in game's media and like with film a lack of presence as directors. Also my point with Anita is that the reactions she stirred can't be justified and it paints a bad image in regards of women adressing the gaming community.

I know there are female gamers I just don't notice them. And maybe I'm also the problem since the women discussing games or movies in youtube haven't made an impression in me.

berrix
Mon Feb 29 16 04:25pm
Rating: 1

I remember a very similar argument about that same game that could have been very short;

"Not every girl acts like that."

"Cheryl is not every girl."

Of course, this could have ended right there, but lord almighty I have seen things go full internet police on these topics as of late. What really sucks was I even tried defending their choice of character, in spite of hating that whole game and the characters in them (felt too flat/forced for me, like 90s "emo" villains).

I was writing a response that involved Bayonetta oddly enough.
The thing with Bayo is that most of the time, she's fully covered in clothes minus a crescent moon in the first game, but her body is shown through her suit's tightness.

I think Cia is an example of somebody who's partial nudity doesn't really work, not because she's not flirty, she does with Link afterall, but because she only does so with one person, and even then, Bayo belittles men, something Cia doesn't.

Basically I feel Cia's partial nudity doesn't work because it doesn't suit her character well.
Plus the sheer amount of booby on display and the cut of the outfit look ridiculous.
Also can developers and designers PLEASE stop doing the "one trouser leg" thing?

I think the point of Cia's exaggerated sexuality is because it greatly contrasts Lana & the white outfit she originally wears/DLC.

Sort of like, um, Persona 4's Shadow versions of everyone and why Naoto's, Kanji's & Rose's are the way they are.

At least, that is how I viewed it. Also, could be because of Ganondorf's nonsense. She isn't portrayed as a strong character overall, especially in the DLC. She is a weak character trying to make up for her shortcomings and going nuts. So who knows?

The models don't look like children, they just have moderately deformed proportions. They still have big ol' hips, and breasts.

I agree that the changes are small and this isn't a huge deal, but it raises the question of why they needed to be changed in the first place. They're adult characters in a T for Teen game; what's the problem if they show a little more skin? At best this seems like a waste of resources.

If you think they don't look like kids by being super deformed, you need to look again.

Doesn't matter that they have minor curves. They are going to look like kids to most people.

It should also be noted that, for example, Edea was only 15 in the Japanese version of Default.

I don't care if they show skin, they could show more for all I care, but it isn't impossible to see the problem with what basically looks like lolicon.

Nintendo loses either way. If they change it, people get mad and buy it anyway. If they don't, other people get mad. They get negative press regardless, and people will buy it regardless. A few vocal people won't, but they won't dent the sales drastically.

It is just an unfortunate side effect of different cultures.

You know, I can see a person looking at this specific issue and saying "This isn't a big deal." But can you understand how gamers might be concerned with the idea of keeping their games as intact as possible? The costumes really aren't a big deal, but how about this:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/740205-bravely-second-end-layer/73362981/845347950

Here's the gist: There are side-quests in the Japanese version that have multiple outcomes, some involving certain characters dying. In the North American version all outcomes except the "good" outcome have been removed. At this point it's unclear why. Is this a big enough deal?

People are worried that politicians and activists are able to indirectly affect which games we are able to play and what content we can enjoy, with actual examples to show that it may be happening. THIS is why it's becoming a big deal, and why it's cropping up even in non-issues like clothing adjustments and translated conversations.

That is an entirely different issue though.

It isn't censorship, presumably, because clearly Square-Enix AND Nintendo have games with bad endings/outcomes and character deaths you can't avoid based on some decisions and just in general.

So whatever the reason is, it has nothing to do with politics or activists. So that's not even the issue.

No, they shouldn't have removed those scenes, that is a bigger deal, but we don't know what the reason is, and I don't know how you can link that to censorship, SJWs or politicians. There is probably something else, but we'll probably never know.

kirome
Mon Feb 29 16 12:54pm
Rating: 1

Prudetendo!!!!!!!!!!!

The brick red censorship logo is a bit much :p

tendonin
Mon Feb 29 16 01:33pm
Rating: 2

Literally the exact same goddamn thing happened with the first game.

But nobody cared because there wasn't an outrage-based political climate that turns minor changes into stages for activist theatre.

Yes, that's one way of looking at it, or you could consider the cumulative effect of all these games being censored and heavily edited, has contributed to the situation that exists now. After all people can only take so much crap before they fight back.

Only it's not a new situation...this has been going on for years. And it's not censorship, no one is making them do this. It's their own creative localization decisions.

Yeah yeah, the developers original vision was to have every woman's boobs hanging out. It's tacky and I feel the game is better for it. Unless your 12 and it's the only access to boobs you have lol.

artten
Mon Feb 29 16 03:03pm
(Updated 2 times)

You sir are intellectually dishonest, you don't choose to argue the merits of your position other than that you claim it's not censorship, which I disagree, then resorts to passive aggressive insults.

There's a book I suggest you read, it's called 1984. If you have read it good, but be aware it was a warning, not a life manual.

Now have a good day.

I think you're being a little over dramatic. Scratch that...A LOT over dramatic.

I'm a bit of a progressive person...I like seeing women being strong without the need of having their breasts hanging out of every outfit they fight in. It's a change for the much better in my opinion. Unless you are equal opportunity and want half of a dudes junk hanging out of all of their clothes.

Well, as we are displaying are political leanings, I would describe myself as a Libertarian, and no I don't think this is overly dramatic, it's proportional to what is quite clearly a authoritarian transgression against the medium and gamers. The vast majority of us are not children, and this is just patronizing with what they're doing.
And as for equal opportunity, absolutely. No need to discriminate against any genders, or show preferential treatment.

It's not about being a child or not. I don't think it's the end of the world if kids were to see all the skimpy female outfits, but it is tacky and highly unnecessary. If they would of left the game the way it was I would of been fine too, I'm just saying I can see why they changed it and I applaud them for it. Neither of us will change the others mind here, I'm just saying having tough fully clothed women should be encouraged, not frowned upon.

hawk
Mon Feb 29 16 02:58pm
Rating: 1

Nah, I remember a few people caring even back then.

Not entirely true. I do recall people bitching about Edea losing her 15 year old lewdness.

People complained less then because there were less rally captains drumming up hiveminds that are told they should be more mad about it.

It also has to do with the back to back releases getting edited, and Default was a surprise with people just happy to get it.

Now, people aren't happy to get games, evidenced by Fatal Frame, they are just mad about losing anything.

artten
Mon Feb 29 16 02:20pm
(Updated 1 time)

http://i.imgur.com/VXHmVPQ.png

Play along, it's fun.

You can just as easily make the same thing for people claiming they are against it for real reasons, with buzz phrases like "creator's original intent" and all that garbage.

Listing off repetitive comments doesn't make them wrong. Has nothing to do with being an "apologist". You can be against censorship and still think people are overreacting and clearly mad for the wrong reasons.

If people are mad, don't buy it. Simple as that. Other people still want to play the game without having to import/hack. They are just happy to get to play it and they can view the uncensored content online. There's nothing else to it. Nobody is stopping anyone from using their money the way they want, and if they want to miss out on a game or be unable to read it because of costumes that don't change the gameplay or story? By all means. Their choice.

You can just as easily make the same thing for people claiming they are against it for real reasons, with buzz phrases like "creator's original intent" and all that garbage.

You are right one could exist for the anti-censorship crowd but guess what, it doesn't, same goes for censored gameing's YouTube channel, I mean can you imagine a channel highlighting elements of games that they think should be censored, it would never fly.

Listing off repetitive comments doesn't make them wrong. Has nothing to do with being an "apologist". You can be against censorship and still think people are overreacting and clearly mad for the wrong reasons.

If someone's against censorship and they think people are overreacting, that may make them more moderate in their approach. But I highly doubt they would ever be okay with the changes being made.

If people are mad, don't buy it. Simple as that. Other people still want to play the game without having to import/hack. They are just happy to get to play it and they can view the uncensored content online. There's nothing else to it. Nobody is stopping anyone from using their money the way they want, and if they want to miss out on a game or be unable to read it because of costumes that don't change the gameplay or story? By all means. Their choice.

Why should anyone have to go to the Internet to look up removed content from a game, especially considering it's not just the visual elements that have been removed, FE F is a good example where characters have been completely rewritten, as well as missing dialogue from a support conversation! And those are just two examples of a multitude that have already been found.
Plus as a consumer I want the most bang for my buck, why shouldn't I get the complete experience. I mean there's and old phrase that fits this very well, the customer is always right!
Additionally you also have to think of it this way, if the game wasn't cut would anyone actually be genuinely shouting that they wouldn't be buying it because those elements were left in, the answer to that is no, but with the removal there is going to be people who will boycott, and in my case as I'm not a fan of boycotts I will look for an alternative, such as importing or hacking even though I shouldn't have to.

You are right one could exist for the anti-censorship crowd but guess what, it doesn't

Probably because people who don't have problems with the things that are getting censored have better things to do with their time than making a chart of arguments and thinking it is funny.

More often than not, people who don't care say their piece and move on without getting hostile about it until they get attacked.

Why should anyone have to go to the Internet to look up removed content from a game, especially considering it's not just the visual elements that have been removed, FE F is a good example where characters have been completely rewritten, as well as missing dialogue from a support conversation! And those are just two examples of a multitude that have already been found.

First, I didn't say they SHOULD have to. I just said they can. The point being that, unlike censorship in news, and the real world, stuff that gets edited in games is readily available online for stuff like this. You can still see it, just not the original way. It isn't missing from the world.

As for the Dates localization, that isn't even largely censorship. The bulk of the stuff people are mad about in Fates boils more directly down to memes and dialogue that isn't censoring anything, but rather being a dumb localization.

Petting removed? Censoring. Changing dialogue to garbage? That is just garbage, not censorship. They weren't protecting kids, they were just thinking they were clever. A whole separate problem.

Additionally you also have to think of it this way, if the game wasn't cut would anyone actually be genuinely shouting that they wouldn't be buying it because those elements were left in, the answer to that is no, but with the removal there is going to be people who will boycott

Well that's the thing. They are less vocal. They'd exist, but it would mostly be relegated to GameFAQs and a few people.

The problem is, when these come out in Japan, people run their shit. Sites post "BORDERLINE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY" and create an uproar about Fates, Xenoblade, Fatal Frame and what have you. They publicize things that are NOT issues and write editorials on how they are. Or like how Nintendo was a big bad guy for "removing" gay relationships (i.e., fixing a game-breaking bug) from Tomodachi Life. Sites don't know what they are saying and they paint bad pictures.

People then post it all over social media getting upset, also not knowing what they are talking about.

So Nintendo is put in an extremely awkward position. Thing is, the negative press from "boo hoo you removed boobies and changed words" is generally less damaging to sales than "Nintendo supports perverts, degrades women and this or that hot topic".

It isn't that Nintendo is right, but the fact they lose regardless as far as publicity goes. They just go for the one they think is easier to damage control and will upset the least people.

For as loud as people are about Fates, it still sold 5x Awakening in US on launch weekend, so while we got an undesirable version of the product, the press of removals clearly didn't hurt that bad. And this isn't because those 300k+ support censorship or think it is okay to ruin it. It is because they just want to play the game, and at the end of the day, most of these things don't ruin the experience for them because they may not have used them anyway, don't miss them, don't know or care to, etc.

People can try to do something about it, but avoiding the English release isn't going to fix the problem, since they will only see it as disinterest in the game/series/genre, not the reasoning behind the lost sale, unless people speak to THEM about it.

And unfortunately, 90% of the outlets people bitch to are not run by high enough people to have any weight. The guy running their Twitter can't fix it or do anything.

You make many points that I want to address, but it's late where I am so I will only look at a couple.

1. The 300 K number is total sales of all three versions of the game, now of course that is impressive but that doesn't actually reflect how many people purchased it, I would say a more accurate number would be around the 220 K mark, impressive but not the 300 K that they were pimping, as it can be contributed to many people double and triple diping.

2. well as for choosing alternative methods of playing the game, then the localized version, I would say that the guidelines set down by operation torrential downpour made it quite clear that on purchasing the game from import, a letter should be written with proof of receipt two NCL, and explaining to them why you made that decision, which is what I'm planning to do.

3. I believe it would be best for Nintendo to take a hit from the press, then get lynched by their customer base. After all members of the gaming press come and go, but if you lose a customer it's near impossible to get them back.

But all in all I am glad that you are at least one of the few people that acknowledge the shoddy localization that was done.

The 300 K number is total sales of all three versions of the game, now of course that is impressive but that doesn't actually reflect how many people purchased it, I would say a more accurate number would be around the 220 K mark, impressive but not the 300 K that they were pimping, as it can be contributed to many people double and triple diping.

Fair enough. The main point was it being more than Awakening, not so much the number itself. Also, these are most likely only the physical copies (as they said "units"), so DLC versions/digital & Revelations aren't included and chances are people didn't buy Birthright, Conquest & Special Edition with both in it. If Nintendo did their jobs, double dipping shouldn't even be a thing, seeing as it isn't cost effective (since it is cheaper to buy the second story digitally). Some probably still did though.

Regardless, lots of people bought it, despite the fact it was changed so much.

on purchasing the game from import, a letter should be written with proof of receipt two NCL, and explaining to them why you made that decision, which is what I'm planning to do.

Makes sense. I support that. That in mind, I am not spending that kind of money, and I honestly don't care all that much about a decent amount of characters or their supports aside from a select few, so it isn't cost effective or a big enough deal to me. If the things WERE left intact, a lot of it would be lost on me, skimmed through, silent (I had the volume down during Awakening, not hearing voices anyway aside from animated scenes) and like Pokémon Amie, I'd have viewed petting as a novelty and did it once or twice.

More power to everyone else, but this isn't a fight I feel too strongly about.

I believe it would be best for Nintendo to take a hit from the press, then get lynched by their customer base. After all members of the gaming press come and go, but if you lose a customer it's near impossible to get them back.

Problem isn't the press themselves, but their power. For example, the articles influence people. Just like how reviews influence purchasing decisions. Too often have I seen "I was excited about this, but it got a 6-7 from whatever site" and people not seeing for themselves, just taking a guy/girl's opinion and running with it.

So the idea is, Nintendo is afraid that the negative articles make the readers also view it negatively, and when you look at some of the articles, you see people say like "THIS is what Fire Emblem has become?!" or "when did Fatal Frame get so erotic?". So Nintendo is probably afraid of people hiveminding with it.

They basically have to predict things and hope for the best. As it stands, it is clear they are bad at predicting.

Unfortunately, I can almost guarantee 90% of the changes in these games were made too far in advance for them to really change them. So people go NINTENDO DIDN'T LEARN!, no, Nintendo just didn't want to delay it for a decision they made before the uproars started.

People are going to have to wait it out until the next batch of Japanese games that get localized, rather than these games they have been localizing for a year. They can patch them, but it isn't an issue of " not learning", there was just no time. Teams already packed it up on the games before people found out and got mad.

Hah, you guys are blaming the wrong company, it's Square-Enix localizing this, not the treehouse

Sniff!...Gah! My babies nnoooo! I'm calling it now, if FF15 comes out on NX consider a male cid or a massive coverup from top to bottom.

1 If you don't mind the censorship in Bravely Default, then you are supporting censorship, whether on purpose or not.

2 If you support the censorship in Bravely Default, then you are supporting all censorship and should therefore have no problems with say, how 4Kids handled One Piece. The only difference is degree of censorship. "Hey, we should be happy we at least get the [show / game / etc.]" is the phrase used here, right?

3 Whether Square-Enix decided to censor internally or not is irrelevant.

censorship
noun
the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts

If something was suppressed by any group for being unacceptable, that is the very definition of censorship. "Self-censorship" is a real thing.

It's not censorship... it's localization.

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