Login

Metroid 2 Fan Remake takedown request confirmed to be real


Well now we know that it was Nintendo requesting the game's removal. No surprise to see Nintendo go after the remake. Thanks to FangztheWolf for the heads up!

Categories: Portables
Tags: game-boy, metroid

Comments

Top Rated Comment
thomas
Mon Aug 08 16 10:36pm
Rating: 8

It's not shocking. Like, I can't hate Nintendo for doing it, but it just goes to show how simple it'd be for Nintendo to please Metroid fans. All they need to give us is something as small as a remake of Metroid II. That's the saddest part about it. Because, for some reason, that's too much to ask.

luthlexor
Mon Aug 08 16 10:24pm
Rating: 3 (Updated 1 time)

Well for what it's worth, I downloaded the game and plan to play through the remake.

I also went onto the eShop last night and paid $6 for Metroid II: Return of Samus, as per the advice of the developer when you start up the remake.

Nintendo, you're being dumb.

You do know it's currently free on My Nintendo, right?

shadowbuster
Tue Aug 09 16 12:14am
(Updated 1 time)

Free as in "spending $20 - 30+ just to get 30 coins for a game boy game"... I don't think so.

It's free as a reward if you already bought a game and have the coins on hand. So a lot of people might have coins waiting to be spent on something. The previous commenter wouldn't have suggested buying a game to especially get Metroid 2, don't be so cynical.

I understand why it was taken down, but still sucks. This also makes me worried about the fangame I'm making. Tho mine is probably too obscure for Nintendo to care and will probably never get finished anyway.

thomas
Mon Aug 08 16 10:36pm
Rating: 8

It's not shocking. Like, I can't hate Nintendo for doing it, but it just goes to show how simple it'd be for Nintendo to please Metroid fans. All they need to give us is something as small as a remake of Metroid II. That's the saddest part about it. Because, for some reason, that's too much to ask.

I'd settle for them allowing creators to make non-profit, transformative tributes to their IPs without immediately shutting them down. That's even easier.

I understand your sentiment, but that's not exactly a fair argument. Do you even know how many people downloaded this game? Without knowing the numbers myself, I would feel confident in saying that a remake of Metroid II would not please my nor many other's desire for more Metroid.

What the hell? So, why was Nintendo just sitting on their asses for the last 10 freaking years!? It would've been better to send a C&D to the guy before he released it so he wouldn't have wasted 10 GODFORSAKEN YEARS of his life! I'd love to know if this was NoA's doing or Nintendo as a whole, same with the Nintendo Power take-down. It wouldn't surprise me if it was just NoA considering how big pieces of garbage they've been the last few years.

Mon Aug 08 16 11:07pm
Rating: 1 (Updated 2 times)

His work was not for nothing. The Game received praise at it's release a few days ago (well deserved in my opinion because it is great) and thousands of people downloaded the Game. After the C&D for the File Hosting Companies, their Torrent Section was almost destroyed because their provider only allowed them 10 TB of Data Volume and there were so many people now downloading the Game via Torrent. Also, if they send him the C&D at the beginning of the development, never of the great aspects I've talked about would have had happened and no one of us could play it. And now the Game is downloaded so many times, it will most likely stay on the Internet forever. Downloading a copy shouldn't be a problem. The Game was also meant a free download and the developer and the people behind him always known the C&D might come quick. The only sad thing is, there won't be a 1.1 Version now.

I also like to blame NoA because I don't like them and their business methods. But this time, I think, comes direct from the Headquarters from Japan. You don't need NoA for defending your property. Japan is one of the most harsh people you have to deal with when it comes to Copyright.

Damn. Well, they clearly won't win the trophy for "Company of the Decade". After the Treehouse Stories, after the Alison Rapp scandal, many flawed localizations, Censorship and now the AM2R takedown. This happened so fast, makes me wonder if this was agreed with the japanese branch.

They're also obviously responsible for the takedown of the Nintendo Power archives. And that'd be more on NoA than this even as NCA has nothing to do with NP.

God damn, I only realise it now after you mentioned it. They've taken the archives down? I bookmarked the page only a few days ago. Wow, this is what I call a d*** move.

An absolute shame.
I know they're well within their rights, but it's still a massive disappointment.

Most other companies would be stoked to see such incredible works, especially ones that aren't even trying to make money from it.

NoA hired the guy who did the Mother 3 fan translation so maybe this guy could be hired one day too. All they requested was a takedown of the files, they're not going to take him to court over this.

Technically, NOA never hired the M3 translator. 8-4 did, which is a company that works with NOA sometimes depending on if they hire them for their efforts.

It's not their right. It's their responsibility and absolutely mandatory. It's copyrighted material. They are not just doing it to be mean.

I'm sick of people downright criticizing and bashing Nintendo for protecting their IP. Just like how they'll try to get rid of every Pokémon Rip Off on the mobile store, they're going to try to axe a remake of one of their IPs. It has nothing to do with acknowledging the Metroid franchise, it has nothing to do with somebody "outdoing" their source material. It's simply the copyright law and they can't let one pass because one is more higher in quality and effort than all the other fan-projects that use Nintendo's characters.

Mon Aug 08 16 11:24pm
Rating: 1 (Updated 3 times)

No one is bashing Nintendo for protecting their IP. You may not judge so harsh about other people. It's only natural they decided to take it down, but it was the way they've done it. It simply was bad style. There were many companies who handled such a situation way better. Also, it's Nintendos own fault the Game was released. They had 10 years the chance to end this project, they haven't. Now the Game is released, praised, downloaded many times and 2 days later, their lawyers wrote the developers a C&D. And we still don't know how this will continue. Maybe Nintendo will charge the developer for copyright infringement, which would be the worst situation for him. I sure hope Nintendo will leave it be after the C&D. If they are stupid enough not protecting their IP's well enough, well, I guess the blame is on them in this case. From an unemotional perspective, they have done the right thing but that don't mean we have to like it, not when a quality product was created. So your Pokemon Rip Off argument have no value here.

Tue Aug 09 16 12:29pm
(Updated 1 time)

Agreed. They let the guy just waste away at his work for years before they even lifted a finger.

Nintendo could have easily just went "hey, this is really good. Dude, we'll use this and officialise it because it's super good".

hamr
Mon Aug 08 16 11:32pm
Rating: 1

that gif just triggered my ptsd like ridley.

kingsunnyd
Tue Aug 09 16 12:46am
(Updated 1 time)

Like everyone else, I understand why they do this but it's still very disappointing. Valve with Half-Life 1/Black Mesa and Sega with Sonic CD hired the remakers and released those games which benefits all parties involved: company, remaker, and fans of those games.

Sega even went the extra mile and now have him working on Sonic Mania. Again, I understand why Nintendo does what they do but I feel everyone would be happier if they emulated Sega and Valve (edit: on this kind of thing specifically).

Dude steals Nintendo's IP and makes games.

Nintendo steps in, well within its legal right, to stop the game distribution.

Moron fans get mad Nintendo lays claim to its IP, which they own rights to.

I hope someday some of you make something worth money, and then someone rips you off. And then I want you not to care that they stole it from you.

The guy should have never made the game. He knew what was going to happen.

I certainly hope that one of these days you grow up enough to realize that other human beings are allowed to have differing views or opinions or feelings from your own, without you childishly attacking and marginalizing them for it, simply because you don't agree. In fact it would be nice if every single "expert" and advocate, all across the internet, would reach such a level of common sense wisdom and maturity.

I don't know about you, but I for one, AM a creator. I'm a writer. And if anything I do ever makes a lot of money and gains a lot of fans, you know what? If someone wants to write a fan-fiction based on my universe? Or their own spin/retelling of that universe? More power to them. So long as they're not making money off of the work, I don't care, and in fact (so long as it isn't some creepy erotica), might probably be flattered.

Because that's all this was. A guy in his spare time, making a remake of Metroid II that Nintendo themselves will likely NEVER make. He didn't "steal" their IP, he was paying tribute to it, and giving fans something Nintendo themselves likely never will. He made a fan-project, on his own time and resources, that he then offered to fans to play for FREE. He isn't making a single cent off of it, and I'd wager was never planning to. That's fan fiction, and an homage to the Metroid franchise.

So no, Nintendo was absolutely not in the "right" in this scenario. They have should have no legal claim on a fan project that is non-profit. They might as well go on a rampage and take down EVERY single Nintendo-based home-brew and hack, because there are literally dozens, if not hundreds out there in existence. And none of them are "stealing" anything from Nintendo, nor are they making any money off of their existence. It's all just fan projects. Period.

As much as I hate modern day Capcom, you know what they did, when they discovered a fan-made project to cross over 8-bit Mega Man with Street Fighter? They helped him put it out and advertised it for him. Because they realized fans would love it, and it was offered for FREE. Nintendo easily could have done the same. Unless they're magically trying to say they ARE working on a Metroid II remake themselves, there was zero point in them taking this down. And you know what? Even if they were, who cares? Myself and most other people would rather play an "official" remake over a fan one, and would gladly pay actual money for it which this guy wasn't charging, so even IN that scenario, this homebrew existing costs Nintendo exactly nothing.

So thanks for insulting the intelligence of anyone you don't agree with. But just because you take such a "high ground" stance, doesn't always make you right. And insulting others, is never a very strong sign of maturity, OR intellect. Might want to consider that next time, when sharing your opinions.

Tue Aug 09 16 02:02am
Rating: 1 (Updated 6 times)

Immature and childish commentary @XCWARRIOR. Not because of your personal opinion but because you're horrible bad informed about the whole matter and why people are raising the voice. Clue: Not because of the reasons you state here. Anyway, the guy created this Game landed a hit. It went perfectly well for him because he finished his work and made it public to the Internet and many peopled grabbed the digital download. He can give 200 ***** now. Anyway, for now, your comment is qualified for the most ignorant comment of 2016 at Go Nintendo so far. Calling the majority morons is very smart.

1. Corporate Sneaks(Or whoever) go on discussion boards to do damage control(really badly I might add).
2. One user has the nerve to call them out on their motifs.
3. Corporate Sneaks(Or whoever) can't 'retaliate' for fear of being found out.

I hope someday some of you make something worth money, and then someone rips you off.

Fanwork was free, yo. No Money wanted/got. Argument Invalid.

And then I want you not to care that they stole it from you.

Fun Fact: You can't Steal *'intangible'/Non Physical things.
*It's called Plagiarism when it involves an Idea.

Throwing a scenario here. May not transfer transparently.

Let's say there is a river(lets assume this river belongs to no one and cannot be claimed by anyone either), a property mid stream, and another property down stream of that. You gather water from the river in a jar on the second property(lets assume the second property is yours or also cannot be claimed by anyone). It's like saying you Stole the first properties water from the river because it came down from that property onto the second(lets assume means'what's that other word for fence I'm thinking of? Median?' don't apply here and even then you'r on your own property or open property not belonging or claimable by anyone).

The guy should have never made the game. He knew what was going to happen.

Translation: No one can ever have/do Nice Things, EVER because [label removed due to multiple seemingly ambiguous terms, so lets just say 'reasons'].

As everyone said below, very much disagree with you. It was fan work.Heck, Sega allows it for the most part and that is one thing I heavily respect from them now. If Nintendo keeps punishing their hardcore fans, they won't have nothing left.

Going after fan-made games that the creators are charging zero money for, is pretty f***ing stupid, no matter how you shake it.

I love Nintendo, but let's be real here. Anyone sitting there with the attitude that any decision Nintendo makes is the right one, is being ignorant, period. This is not Nintendo protecting their assets. It's not even Nintendo's assets. It's a purely fan made project. They might as well go after EVERY single Nintendo-based fan project and hack ever made now, take them ALL down from the internet.

Call it the "Funpocalypse".

I'm on the camp on that, "the game is out", someone is gonna gave it. Several other projects don't get as complex as this one from what I can tell.

Also I agree it doesn't feel right, but it's not stupid to take it down, since like everyone has comment, it makes them look bad also having the game many people want and them making one that truth be told haven't sold people on it or even tried that much to get people invested.

Also like I've said, I heard if you don't defend your copyright you lose it, I'll like to have the details on that.

Finally if there was a way they'll would take down most of the fan made projects but I think most don't get as featured as this one.

hamr
Tue Aug 09 16 01:35am
Rating: 1 (Updated 2 times)

"Also like I've said, I heard if you don't defend your copyright you lose it, I'll like to have the details on that."

Strictly speaking, that is not true. Once granted, copyrights essentially belong to the owner for a specific set period of time. Since Nintendo is a corporate author, they own whatever they copyright for 95 years after a work is published, and this will be the case regardless of any actions they take.

(It used to be 75 years until Disney successfully lobbied to add another 20 years to it about... 18 years ago, which means that in two years they are probably going to lobby to increase it even more.)

What Nintendo would be at risk of losing if they did nothing in this case is their trademark, which is a related but ultimately separate filing that they have to affirmatively defend in order to retain.
http://www.legalzoom.com/trademarks-patents-copyrights/summary-compare-trademark-copyright.html

http://www.inta.org/TrademarkBasics/FactSheets/Pages/LossofTrademarkRightsFactSheet.aspx

Failure to Police

Trademark rights may also be lost when a trademark owner fails effectively to police its mark against eroded distinctiveness, which may occur as a result of the presence of confusingly similar third-party marks in the market. For example, if many third parties subsequently begin using the same or a similar mark in commerce in connection with goods and/or services similar to the trademark owner’s after the owner has already begun to use its trademark, and the owner does little or nothing to police its mark, the mark is likely to lose some or all of its value as a source identifier in the marketplace. As a result, the trademark will become weaker, and in some cases it may lose its distinctiveness entirely...

While some courts have determined that a trademark owner need not necessarily prosecute every infringing third-party use of its mark, such third-party uses can still affect the distinctiveness of the mark in the mind of the public

Now I'm not so sure what the consequences are. Since I do see this fanwork does infringe and affect the distinctiveness of this game in the mind of the public, but what are the ramifications of losing a trademark in contrast with a copyright?

Also to be fair I did hear in a couple of podcasts people buying the GB game out of curiosity.

hamr
Tue Aug 09 16 01:52am
(Updated 2 times)

I edited in to clarify the difference on the two, but basically copyrights apply to products and trademarks apply to names (and to a lesser extent associated symbols).

Losing the trademark here would essentially mean a loss of Nintendo's exclusive right to call things 'Metroid' and have them be official parts of the franchise, and depending on how they have filed, specific iconography from the series (such as the look of Samus's varia suit, her ship, the way Metroids are designed, etc).

Losing the copyright here would mean a loss Nintendo's exclusive right to distribute Metroid merchandise, including pre-existing stuff that they already produced, so for instance you could sell pirated copies of the actual games or whatever. (But again, Nintendo is not in danger of losing their copyright on this for decades (probably *ever*).)

Ok, I get it. Though it's a bit funny considering the game they're putting out. Metroids don't seem to be a huge part of the premise, the Metroid Prime part of the title is in smaller font than Federation Force and it's not likely that more Metroid phases will be shown in this entry.

So yeah, it also does look in more semiotic way that trademark isn't as important for the new entry and might become an example that their way to making games needs to look more involved than making a game and choosing what of their IP fits it more on what they want to do. Or so they said something along those lines when Guard and Giant Robo turned into an Star Fox game, or how Dinosaur Planet turned into an Star Fox game. Hmmm... might be coincidental.

"Though it's a bit funny considering the game they're putting out"

Is it, though?

If the Metroid name were not attached to the game and it was an original IP about Chibi Space Marines playing soccer, how many people would really care that it existed?

Likewise, anytime a person calls something 'A good game, but a bad [series name] game', that person cares more about the brand than about the product itself -- and if consumers care more about the thing that trademarks specifically protect, then why shouldn't the companies?

For example, if many third parties subsequently begin using the same or a similar mark in commerce in connection with goods and/or services similar to the trademark owner’s after the owner has already begun to use its trademark, and the owner does little or nothing to police its mark, the mark is likely to lose some or all of its value as a source identifier in the marketplace.

So by that logic, in order to take down a Copyright, "Vigilante Style", All that would need to happen, is some crazy simultaneous "mob attack" that goes on so frequently and in such high volume, that it would be "financially Taxing" for them to police every instance and keep up?

can still affect the distinctiveness of the mark in the mind of the public

What deems/determines this factor to the effect that this states?
Pfft, Law writers ¬_¬. . .

including pre-existing stuff that they already produced

X |.
Who the. . .
WHY?
That doesn't Even. . .

Like I said, Law writers.

Chibi Space Marines playing soccer, how many people would really care that it existed?

The same people that blindly purchase anything with the word Metroid or Prime in the title name and THINK it's the *ACTUAL THING.

*As in, from what We KNOW dam well what Metroid is, NOT what Nintendo Shoehorns it to be; 'head cannon', I guess. . .

Also, perfect description for the game.

if consumers care more about the thing that trademarks specifically protect, then why shouldn't the companies?

Good question.
Because they don't hold our best interests in mind, like EVER anymore.
That take down action right here, Proves that. Why? Because they didn't even Follow up with a statement to the 'public' about it(THIS after NOT even Remembering Metroids Birthday). They like protecting their own asses, but when it comes to our affection, they always seem to flip us the bird every chance they get.

Nintendo:
"We don't want YOUR Affection OR Admiration, just Your money. And sometimes, Not even that."

Want to know when I truly believe that statement.
Time may be drawing near for that if they keep this BS up.

hamr
Tue Aug 09 16 04:09am
Rating: 2

"So by that logic, in order to take down a Copyright"

Trademark. As I explained, copyright is basically eternal (and in a couple years, congress will probably make it flat-out eternal) and they keep it regardless of how extensively they enforce it or whether they even do anything with it. The trademark is the one they can actually lose if courts think they do not care about retaining it.

"Vigilante Style", All that would need to happen, is some crazy simultaneous "mob attack" that goes on so frequently and in such high volume, that it would be "financially Taxing" for them to police every instance and keep up?"

Yes. If a million different people released a million different unlicensed Metroid games, Nintendo would likely lose the trademark.

"What deems/determines this factor to the effect that this states? "

Public reaction. If it becomes generally accepted that basically anyone and everyone can make a metroid game without consumers knowing the difference, to the point where it became a generic term, then there would be no need for Nintendo to hold the trademark, they would lose it, and then literally anyone would be able to sell a game and call it 'metroid' in the same way that pretty much anyone can sell a pain relief pill and call it 'aspirin'.

(Personally, I do not think that would be likely to happen if they let this one particular game slide, but a jury might disagree, and legal departments tend to err on the side of caution.)

Yes. If a million different people released a million different unlicensed Metroid games, Nintendo would likely lose the trademark.

Let's just say, for all intents and purposes, this is ACTUALLY true, just Not brought up(additionally, sources can't be traced but are none the less existent for protection reasons). Would suddenly bringing it up trigger? Seems like an Eye for an Eye thing in the grand scheme of things for the fans side.

Public reaction. If it becomes generally accepted that basically anyone and everyone can make a metroid game without consumers knowing the difference, to the point where it became a generic term, then there would be no need for Nintendo to hold the trademark, they would lose it, and then literally anyone would be able to sell a game and call it 'metroid' in the same way that pretty much anyone can sell a pain relief pill and call it 'aspirin'.

Metroidvania, isn't enough? What will be exactly?
Also, can the terms also include another title, or do we have to give it a name like Castloid for that instance?

"Metroidvania, isn't enough?"

'Metroidvania' is not a registered trademark of any company, nor could it ever be at this point. Literally hundreds of games (from thousands of different people) bill themselves as such. Franchises are trademarked; genres are not.

It is exactly the sort of generic term that Nintendo fears 'Metroid' itself becoming.

"Also, can the terms also include another title, or do we have to give it a name like Castloid for that instance?"

What's in a name?

It's a free country: The terms we use as individuals in speech can include whatever names and trademarks we want in them.

If Nintendo and Konami had their way, the term 'metroidvania' would not be called that. They *hate* that phrase, lol.

It just so happened that the term came into informal use by normal people and then caught on as general use. Even if the term itself had been trademarked, the same result would have happened since it is basically impossible to police people's use of words, and the companies would have been stuck with just advertising campaigns begging people not to use such language.

Similarly, if enough people referred to the vaguely-defined genre of non-linear gated-progression sidescrollers as 'metroids' or as 'castlevanias', then that would be the generic marketing term talentless indies affixed to their works.

It is exactly the sort of generic term that Nintendo fears 'Metroid' itself becoming.

Confizzed. It has to be a competing trademark that is registered, and NOT a public 'buzzward'; Wut?

It just so happened that the term came into informal use by normal people and then caught on as general use.

This goes back to the initial question asked, and as to my confusion of 'legal text/context'.

if enough people referred to the vaguely-defined genre of non-linear gated-progression sidescrollers as 'metroids' or as 'castlevanias', then that would be the generic marketing term talentless indies affixed to their works.

So then, it HAS to be the actual term used; NOT a 'knockoff' term?
So then, we just start calling Metroidvania games just straight up Metroid or Castlevania and when asked why called, explain so that it catches on to initiate the proposed the effect?

"It has to be a competing trademark that is registered, and NOT a public 'buzzward; Wut?"

I am not certain what you are asking. What is the antecedent of the word 'it' in that question?

"So then, we just start calling Metroidvania games just straight up Metroid or Castlevania and when asked why called, explain so that it catches on to initiate the proposed the effect?"

I mean, that is a stupid and unrealistic plan for a variety of reasons, but yes, if such a sequence of events transpired, that is what the legal result would be.

I mean, that is a stupid and unrealistic plan for a variety of reasons, but yes, if such a sequence of events transpired, that is what the legal result would be.

1. As unrealistic as Pokemon Go turned out to be? (Seriously, Twilight Zone Levels of Success; not the show, but the aspect of the shows premise).
2. Couldn't hurt to try, right? Least it's better than taking it And serves as a Vent if nothing else.

I don't think people are caring as much either way, but I think it's also because Nintendo hasn't showed as much proudness about this game. Kirby did get an amiibo line, Star Fox got a short movie, even Color Splash has had a stupid chuckle moment with the breakdance pig (and to some the fact it looks good matters). This game feels kinda like the new Ghostbusters movie, harmless but unwanted and unnecessary. I might be wrong but it doesn't look as offensive as Other M, but it's also because it isn't trying as hard. It's just the fairest point I can give it is that it might be a better game than Hunters, which is setting the bar just barely above the ground.

I think Paper Mario enters more that category of "a good Sonic game in a bad series of Sonic games". Also considering the Mario and Luigi games have had more hits than misses. Then again they never tried as hard.

hamr
Tue Aug 09 16 03:38am
Rating: 1

"I don't think people are caring as much either way"

Is that why the game has a 9-to-1 dislike-like ratio on its reveal video and a change.org petition calling for its cancellation? Because people do not care about it one way or the other? Razz

"I think Paper Mario enters more that category of "a good Sonic game in a bad series of Sonic games""

I did not say 'a good [series name] game in a bad series of [series name] games'; I said 'a good game (as in, on its own merits), but a bad [series name] game'.

What it comes down to is when people evaluate a game based on its relation to the series it belongs to rather than its own merits.

E.g., someone might say 'Prime Pinball is a good game, but it's a bad Metroid game (because it does not fit in with the other games under the Metroid brand)'.

Spoiler

Not really related to the above conversation, but:

1. Do you have any idea why PM was allowed to be worked on for so long before being threatened with legal ramifications? They didn't even receive an official take-down notice; development was ceased simply due to the threat of potential legal action. Meanwhile, AM2R gets taken down immediately after release.

2. What category do things like Super Mario fan games (romhacks, flash games) and software like Lunar Magic fall into? I would imagine they're the same kind of thing as AM2R, yet as far as I know, SMW Central et al. have never been bothered by Nintendo's legal team. Too widespread or too insignificant? Or is it perhaps both (too insignificant due to widespread popularity)?

I was in the team almost until the end, then I assume I got kicked off to be protected since many just got kicked off alongside me and PM closed up shop very soon after. A lawyer was involved near the end. Nintendo did do a lot of thing to try and and shut PM down without looking bad honestly. They have specifically demanded that Project M not be allowed at Apex tournaments, banned the words "Project M" from Miiverse, removed monetization on Twitch to anyone using Project M, and partially on Youtube. Theyw ere clearly trying to reduce its visibility, and they were getting more and more aggressive. I can expect that influenced the project leaders.

1. I never followed PM's production in any detail, so I will defer entirely to VB on that.

2. Nintendo probably could go after a lot of those fan games if they wanted, but they are not really prominent enough to the point where one could argue that they are in danger of replacing the original IP in public mindshare, and depending on how much original content the products contain they could feasibly argue fair use if things actually wound up in court.

Neither is true for AM2R, which is very visible, is arguably at risk of overshadowing the actual brand (due to Nintendo allowing it to languish for over a decade), and is literally a remake of an actual piece of software that Nintendo currently sells.

As I said, they could *probably* ignore it the latter the way they ignore the former with no ill effect, but it is not particularly surprising that they regard the cases differently.

I don't know, does change.org has actually being effective at something? Still I wouldn't passed the mob mentality the internet gets at times with the criticism of something popular to hate.

Paper Mario started at the top and has steadily gone downhill with each new entry. But to be fair only two are turn based RPGs with partners.

That's true.

Well to be fair from what I've seen Prime Pinball is Pinball version of the first Metroid Prime. So I suppose there's not a lot of damage given it kinda advertises a good game in the series. Other M also referenced both Super and Fusion but the new things they added hindered what could have been a merely fine entry.

Spoiler

I think people want Other M and Federation Force feel more like moments in the franchise rather than parts of it. Like a bad comic book crossover event I suppose people just want something to wash the bad aspects those games are bringing. However if it's like how Nintendo has managed the Paper Mario series, maybe it's already to late to have that mentality. But who knows. Will the NX recycle the Wii U strategy of the same line of games? Or will it try to bring new IPs and new takes on forgotten IPs? It's a mystery.

"I don't know, does change.org has actually being effective at something?"

Lol, no.

"Still I wouldn't passed the mob mentality the internet gets at times"

'No one cares about this thing' and 'The only people who care about this thing is that mob of people over there' are not the same argument.

"Paper Mario started at the top and has steadily gone downhill with each new entry"

As someone who likes SPM more than TYD (and likes both better than 64), I disagree with that assessment.

"So I suppose there's not a lot of damage given it kinda advertises a good game in the series."

The 'damage' you are referring to is once again purely related to the brand and not to the products themselves, which reinforces my point about how much the former matters to people.

There is not a lot of actual damage that any game can do in (or to) any series. Playing MOM (or worse, Corruption) does not render my game system unable to read other, better Metroid games. It does not insert Waifu Samus into Super. It does not explode my Wii U if I play Zero Mission. Sakamoto is not personally going around melting everyone's copies of the first two Prime games with a blow torch. The good Metroid games still exist, in the forms they always have. They are not diminished in any practical material sense by the existence of lower quality games that happen to be part of the same franchise.

The only thing that bad Metroid games can possibly hurt is the label itself: the idea that if someone puts a game in their console with the word 'Metroid' on the cover, they have a pretty solid idea of exactly what they are about to play. That is what a brand is at a fundamental level.

At least 2 Eff U's from Nintendo to fans in just 1 day. Looks like we won't even have to wait till NX to see where Nintendo stands at this point. . .

Spoiler

chambertlo
Tue Aug 09 16 03:17am
Rating: 2 (Updated 1 time)

Nintendo could have just paid the dude and released the game on the e-Shop, making a whole legion of fans happy. But instead, they are content with enforcing their archaic I.P. "protection" tactics. I understand that they have a duty to protect their creations, but it is still sad to see how a company can be so out of touch with the very fans that made them what they are today.

I already own the original game on cartridge I'm not paying for an eShop copy when I already gave my money to Nintendo to own the original. I have the remake and I intend to keep it and play it. If Nintendo ever comes up with their own idea, having played this remake isn't going to prevent me from buying whatever remake they come up with too!

Hand-picking when and when not to protect your IPs isn't a good idea, if you understand how IP laws work. Even if they didn't want to remove it, it wouldn't have been smart to do that.

And it's pretty clear they didn't, because they let them finish it, even though it's been in development for quite a while and pretty well known.

But seriously, if you understand how messed up IP laws are, you understand why Nintendo does this. And no, the fact that they didn't charge any money for the remake doesn't make a difference. It's still something that potentionally eats away Nintendo's sales (not by the millions of course) and something that is made by using things that Nintendo created.
Not everything a big company does is evil.

Ultimately it doesn't matter though, because this is the internet and you can find ANYTHING on there.

Nintendo sucks. They are out of touch with the world.

Being a Nintendo fan is hard sometimes.

Nintendo fans are out of touch with laws.

What laws? You keep talking about the law in this threat but I don't think you went to law-school.

You're just butthurt because some people are talking bad about your favorite company.

Spoiler

Yes, because as we all know if you don't go with the group and hate on those big bad evil companies, that surely must mean I cannot stand any kind of criticism against that company.

Go look in the thread for explaination or google how copyright laws work.

Sorry in advance for 'jacking your post', Awkwardhugger.

Spoiler

[Joker popcorn gif]

It's fun seeing armchair lawyers on both sides fighting it out.

Maybe if he didn't just blatantly copy the game and designed his own levels, we'd be having a different conversation. Sucks for both sides though. NOA proving once again how not to keeps fans and his guy who wasted 10 years of his life with nothing to show for it now.

Maybe if he didn't just blatantly copy the game and designed his own levels, we'd be having a different conversation.

That wasn't the premise though. He wanted/did something really nice for the fans on Metroids Birthday, that Nintendo DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO MENTION Btw, and instead of being cool about it or even congratulatory, they get shizzed on and Double Deuced instead. 10 YEARS. 10. Meanwhile a Game like Undertale get's praised and thumbs up, even though it's essentially the SAME SHIZ. Though, I suppose that's what you meant by asset shifting. . .

Spoiler

NOA proving once again how not to keeps fans and his guy who wasted 10 years of his life with nothing to show for it now.

Spoiler

So, seriously, Pitchforks and Torches, When?

Got a sale going on now. 5 pitchforks for the price of 4... I'll throw in a "I'm mad as hell sign" for free. Torches though, you're on your own. Not allowed to play with anything related to fire after that Wii Music incident involving a container of fuel, a watermelon, string, and two sicks.

hamr
Tue Aug 09 16 05:49pm
Rating: 1

"Sucks for both sides though"

Does it, though?

-The guy got to release a passion project of his, and it was well-received and extremely popular. Copies of it will forever circulate the internet. Over the decade of work, he learned to code and is now employed as a professional programmer. And so far he has not even received a cease and desist.

-Nintendo gets to make a big show of strength pretending like they killed the project (even though it is in the wild now) so they have something to point to if they ever need to prove they defend their IP.

-Metroid fans get to play a game they mostly think is pretty awesome, and anyone who wants to play it still can, just not off the specific file mirrors that got taken down.

-People who post on videogame message boards get to do our two favorite things: Argue and Complain.

Honestly, this seems like one of those 'everybody wins' situations.

Ironic Twist explanation. That was in the back of my mind, so didn't feel the need to mention that. You also forgot to directly mention that it draws out Corporate Sneaks dead set on doing damage control, and other such users(there may even be a cover up scenario in this, that's pending though).

they have something to point to if they ever need to prove they defend their IP.

Because they didn't already have enough to point to as it is?

People who post on videogame message boards get to do our two favorite things: Argue and Complain.

I actually do the 'side quest' thing myself ;p.

Honestly, this seems like one of those 'everybody wins' situations

At the moment, as you have pointed out, that appears to be the case.
Bad Rep for Nintendo though, will resonate for at least a few weeks still though. Unless they decide to go "Slap Happy" in the mean time on some other thing. Also, Samus is still sad(I know, Fictional; still can't help to feel bad for notions as such).
Never in one day, Have I ever used up all my upvotes so fast and somehow want more to use.

"Because they didn't already have enough to point to as it is?"

The elephant in the room is that in the grand scheme of things Nintendo is objectively pretty lazy about enforcing their IP protections. For every AM2R, there are literally hundreds of Metroid fanworks that they leave alone on account of no one actually caring about them.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/196769/why_super_metroids_hacking_.php

They make a big production about vigorously making an example of the high-profile ones so that they do not actually have to waste the resources dealing with the no-profile ones.

Same principle as being in prison or a substitute teacher at an elementary school.

They make a big production about vigorously making an example of the high-profile ones so that they do not actually have to waste the resources dealing with the no-profile ones.

Yeah, but isn't the small profile ones the ones they should be worried about, due to sheer numbers? I mean, It wouldn't be at all(?) difficult for the opposition to find MANY small(a few mids) examples(and 'inflate' them) against their 1 big example. And actions like that, cause curiosity to rise "Hey, This game is pretty awesome! I wonder what ELSE I've been missing out on. . . I find anything else, I'll be sure to tell friends, but I'll keep it kinda low so they don't pull it like they did the big one." Hence like I said, Streisand Effect. Their one big elephant in the room would have nothing against 50 inflated elephant balloons.

Same principle as being in prison or a substitute teacher at an elementary school.

Not sure if I follow. . .
All I can discern from that is an authoritative figure in an establishment, where their role wouldn't necessarily be respected as opposed to the normal authoritative figure they are accustomed too. The other is being in an oppressed environment, in which case, you could have shortened it down to just oppressive environment like a prison. Or maybe just Being held captive.

But how this analogy applies to the low profiles you mentioned, is what's confusing me.

I still say he takes the engine and create a wholly original game. "Guy who did the metroid 2 remake" might be enough to get your foot in the door with the market base.

ddark
Tue Aug 09 16 08:46am
Rating: 3

Are we honestly going to go through this every single time Nintendo makes a move to protect their IPs?

How many times does it have to be said? They can't be picky and choosey on who gets shut down and who doesn't. It has to be everyone because if they don't, they lose some edge in court battles over their copyrights because the defense would use those that didn't get shut down as part of their case against Nintendo.

Everyone can hate them all they want. Nintendo will never stop protecting their properties. Why fans and fan developers think it will ever be any different is what is shocking and sad. Stop wasting your time remaking their products and then trying to release them. The minute you do, a C&D will be drafted up and ready to go.

I'm not defending them or their practices, all I'm saying is everyone needs to stop acting brand new. This is how it always goes and always will. If they are lax on one group, it hurts their own abilities to enforce their copyrights and trademarks in court. The silly outrage is to the point where it's downright embarrassing. Grow up and learn to accept the world we live in. You won't always get what you want in life, no matter how much you whine, complain, kick or scream. Nintendo fans should know that better than anyone.

How many times does it have to be said?

As many times as there are C&Ds coming from Nintendo, I'm afraid.

thedreaminghawk
Tue Aug 09 16 09:56am
(Updated 2 times)

It's a never ending cycle I'm afraid. I mentioned this in an article I made so I'll just quote what I said there.

My Article said:
The reality is Nintendo was doing their legal duty of protecting their IP, no matter how much it sucks to see a great game get pulled down. Nintendo isn’t some small studio who talks to fans on a daily basis, they are a major corporation who wants everything to play out in their eyes, and while NOA is certainly nicer with fans compared to NCL, the fact remains that they’ll do whatever they want, whether we like it or not. There’s no point in “boycotting” them because of this, nor is there any point in making snotty remarks about how you’ll buy a PS4 Neo instead of Codename NX, because in the end, you’ll forget about it, and move onto more important issues in the real world, and Nintendo won’t care one bit about your complaints or choice.

Being a guy who consider the prime series/Other M non-canon spin-offs, I was really happy to see a fan-game for 2D Metroid that looked amazing... But this shouldn't have been a surprise. I do hope NCL gets off their bum and makes the next Metroid game an actual Metroid V, though instead of yet another Prime game. Metroid Fusion can't be the final installment forever, as It's been 14 years!

Are we honestly going to go through this every single time Nintendo makes a move to protect their IPs?

Depends, are they going to keep Nut Punching fans, instead of 'legitimately' protecting their IP, like when some frivolous Law Firm tried to sue the for patent infringement? It's articles like this, that somehow have a purpose cause it Really draws out certain users Power Levels really quick.

They can't be picky and choosey on who gets shut down and who doesn't. It has to be everyone because if they don't, they lose some edge in court battles over their copyrights because the defense would use those that didn't get shut down as part of their case against Nintendo.

1. Okay, BUT then, WHY not AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE the purpose of the take down publicly, EH? OR, even bothered to remember that it was Metroids Anniversary?
Marketers care NOT for public image, so long as they can keep money and sell stuff.
2. Buddy, they Ain't going after Everyone. Just the ones they selectively catch wind of. This guy was working at it for 10 years, and only JUST NOW got C&Ded. What's THAT tell you?
3. Someone told me that their copyright is perpetually safeguarded, and that ONLY their trademark is at risk. (Btw, Last I checked, They didn't bother upping their Trademark for Hyrule Warriors).
4. Their actions like that, make me want to find these court battlers and help them out With all the 'offbrand' stuff I know, just to stick it BACK to Nintendo.

Why fans and fan developers think it will ever be any different is what is shocking and sad. Stop wasting your time remaking their products and then trying to release them. The minute you do, a C&D will be drafted up and ready to go.

I Think I know why the Power Level Meter's been On the fritz. It's cause it's detecting all sorts of 'unique' Users, instead of just one or maybe two recently. . .
Also, these kinds of actions, give said devs the green light to start releasing all their works in even more secrecy, to the effect that they can't be found, and that in turn will cause unforeseen infringements that Can't be found, EXCEPT by the opposing Nintendo Law Firms. So Yeah, let them keep going, See where it gets them. They've been on Thin Ice for a while, and they just Love to keep piling the weight on. But he, Marketers/researchers don't think about that kind of stuff, do they? No, their interests are shallow focused; so much, that it blinds them to everything else.

Everyone can hate them all they want. Nintendo will never stop protecting their properties.

And the Devs will Never NOT know ways to circumvent things. Anyway you look at it, they Lose. It would seriously be in their best interest to stop. They lose fans, and that little protection bubble of codependency of pop. They'll have nothing(fans), and eventually lose 'everything' on the gaming front.

I'm not defending them or their practices

Wow, could have fooled me ¬_¬. . .

all I'm saying is everyone needs to stop acting brand new.

Hmm, Why would you use that phrase specifically?. . .

This is how it always goes and always will. If they are lax on one group, it hurts their own abilities to enforce their copyrights and trademarks in court.

Then followed up, with this. . .

The silly outrage is to the point where it's downright embarrassing. Grow up and learn to accept the world we live in.

Then the Insult, as the meter continues to climb into redder shades. . .

You won't always get what you want in life, no matter how much you whine, complain, kick or scream.

Thankfully, this pulled game isn't one of them, and it will serve as a certain kind of mortar for future 'justified' actions against corporate N.

Nintendo fans should know that better than anyone.

Which is all the reason Fans need to leave them, for good.
NX WILL be that last straw for many.
"Good Luck" with Damage control for when that happens to pass.

hamr
Tue Aug 09 16 03:33pm
Rating: 1

"They can't be picky and choosey on who gets shut down and who doesn't."

This is theoretically true, but in practice, they can be and they are. There are literally hundreds of other Metroid mods, hacks, and fan-games that have been around for years and not been been shut down. They mostly get left alone by Nintendo (as this game was for the better part of a decade) due to not being well-known and the cost/benefit analysis of going after them not being worth it.

Spoiler

AM2R just had the misfortune of flying too close to the sun and getting too much publicity.

"The minute you do, a C&D will be drafted up and ready to go."

For the record, the AM2R guy has not actually received a C&D yet. At the moment it is just DMCA takedown notices on the file mirrors.

Thankfully already downloaded it, and played through half of it yesterday. It's so freaking good!

wedgew
Tue Aug 09 16 09:57am
Rating: 1 (Updated 2 times)

First I think we need to be clear on what this game is. It isn't akin to a fan-fic. It is a remake of an existing game. The literary parallel would be a novel which re-tells the same story as an existing novel, but maybe changes a few of the details.

Second, there are three separate questions that sometimes get mashed together.
1. Is Nintendo within their legal rights to take the game down?
2. Is Nintendo wise to take the game down?
3. How do I personally feel about them taking it down?

Regarding 1, of course they are. The game is an unlicensed unauthorized remake of an existing copyrighted game.

Regarding 2, there are several factors to consider. Legal consequences and precedent of taking down vs leaving up. Monetary consequences of taking down vs leaving up. Fan reaction to taking down vs leaving up. And the impact of taking down vs leaving up when it comes to people who in the future might want to remake an existing game.

As a business, they have to look at all of those factors, and weigh them appropriately.

-On the legal side, as DonnieDarko420 and NoseofWario pointed out, leaving the game up would make fighting such copyright infringements more difficult in the future.

-On the monetary side, the developer of the remake wasn't getting any money, sure. But people were able to essentially get a game that Nintendo is currently selling for free. Of course there's no way to know how many sales of the GB original would have been lost with the remake available for free, so here they have to make their best guess. (And it might be that the loss of sales would be negligible. On the other hand, one must grant that it's at least theoretically possible that sales would have increased due to gamers heeding the developer's advice. But history suggests that's unlikely.)

-In terms of fan reaction, of course they realized that in this day and age some people would think it cold and heartless to take the game down, and others would be ok with it. The question there is how much that fan reaction will impact their business (i.e., how many people will be so mad at Nintendo that they stop purchasing their products).

-And lastly when it comes to the impact on future unlicensed-remake-developers, what is likely to happen if they leave the game up? It will encourage others to make their own unlicensed remakes. What is Nintendo, as a business, going to think about that? Especially since they themselves have been known to do their own official remakes. What happens when they're wanting to do a remake of, I don't know, Super Mario Land, but right before they're ready to release it some developer on the Internet releases his own remake...for free? But, one might say, what if they go the other route and purchase the game from him and sell it? Aside from the legal issues that might present, that approach would seem to encourage unsolicited remakes. The message, unintended thought it may be, would be "if you make a re-make of Nintendo game well enough, Nintendo will buy it from you." So you essentially create a new type of prospecting. Rather than "go to San Fransisco and pan for gold" it's "remake a Nintendo game and see if they'll buy it from you."

Again, when looking at that second question, Nintendo has to consider all those factors (and probably others I'm not thinking of).

Regarding 3, that's where all the drama seems to be coming in at. Some people personally emotionally do not like what Nintendo has done, and others are ok with it. Of course, no one has to like what Nintendo has done. But we would do well to acknowledge that what we're dealing with there is our emotional response.

Even if it isn't literally stealing away Metroid II VC sales, it's still competing with Nintendo products, while also owning it's very existence to Nintendo products. Some people argue that since it's free it doesn't matter, but it does. It's a free alternative to something Nintendo has 'invented'. If anything it matters more, since there's no barrier for downloading AM2R.

But yeah, it would be nice if people realised the law-related nitty-gritty to a decision like this. People just like posting their knee-jerk reaction, especially if it's aimed against those "evil corporations".

Right. Essentially it's, "I've taken this thing that someone else made and copyrighted (and is currently selling), modified it without their permission, and am giving it away."

Even with good intentions, it is what it is.

1. Yes, but at the cost of what little good rep they have left.
2. HEll No.
3. Whatever it is, it speaks to your character(Or lack thereof) as an individual.

As a business, they have to look at all of those factors, and weigh them appropriately.

But the people who where responsible for the takedown(NoA) aren't very Business centric/oriented, as you can see by the 'admitted' failure that Was WiiU, and other obvious ongoing shortcomings.

Spoiler

Their forte these days is PR/Damage Control. Wasn't always their Forte, but OH WELL. Guess this is what what Nintendo meant by when they said "Company Restructuring", and why they chose the enforcers. Doesn't bode well at all, and these recent actions, are NOT at all reassuring.

Of course there's no way to know how many sales of the GB original would have been lost with the remake available for free, so here they have to make their best guess.

Except, the dev clearly pointed out that you should really BUY the Original. So the More likely case was that their sales ACTUALLY Went up. Given the circumstances involved, mainly centering around quality of game. All this managed to really proves is.

1. Nintendo got outshined by a few devs.
2. Nintendo really DOES Hate Fans, AND Metroid(And, their Scifi based Franchises).
3. Nintendo Hates it when others make a better product then they do.
4. Even when it doesn't concern them, especially due to the dormancy factor, they will go out of their way to stick it to fans, instead of being cool to them like they used too.
5. Nintendo NEVER apologizes, UNLESS it's to cover their own ass from Bad Publicity or if they will Lose Money.
6. Instead of praising them for their efforts Or even offering them creative positions, they get slapped instead.
7. Nintendo fans seriously still love them THAT Much, even after all that. But there IS a limit, and they keep going precariously close to that limit.

Spoiler

possible that sales would have increased due to gamers heeding the developer's advice. But history suggests that's unlikely.

Sounds, kinda Biased if you ask me. . .

What happens when they're wanting to do a remake of, I don't know, Super Mario Land, but right before they're ready to release it some developer on the Internet releases his own remake...for free?

History shows, that people would buy the legit version afterwards anyway.
Most recent example, kind of, Pokemon Go's tracking feature.
Fact, kind of Ironic. Considering Pokemon Go would have otherwise been seen as a pop app that had no actual ties with the Actual Pokemon Co, and yet it would have driven sales up anyway. THAT, after NOT even directly Advertising links to the upcoming or already in circulation products.
Also, I somehow sense that you meant to apply this to some other game that is about to release, directly relevant to Metriod. But, you know, one that most fans wouldn't want anyway. AND Now, even less. And that's saying something, considering that at least 100,000(1 Million?) users even went as far as actively trying to get such a game Canceled. This recent action here, might just pile on to that number now. Man, Nintendo just KEEPS on making mistakes. Does NOT bode well. . .

what if they go the other route and purchase the game from him and sell it?

You can't buy Free things. But now, the motif to sell such a thing Just Climbed. The very thing they WANTED to avoid. Streisand Effect in motion.
They are essentially telling people "It Can't be done", and We all know what happens when they do things to the effect of that, as we learned from a certain Movie about Trucking.

if you make a re-make of Nintendo game well enough, Nintendo will buy it from you.

Pffft, lol, No.
Also, Wut?

Nintendo has to consider all those factors (and probably others I'm not thinking of).

Except Nintendo has Lizard Brain, when it comes to things of this nature.
And Most of the deciding NoA is Nothing BUT Lizard Brain(IF that).

Some people personally emotionally do not like what Nintendo has done, and others are ok with it.

You meant to say Real fans, and [Let's just say, Marketers cause too many people fall int this category] respectively.

we would do well to acknowledge that what we're dealing with there is our emotional response.

Provided that you are an actual fan, and not one of the 'others' doing damage control(Either Directly or Indirectly).

This thread has turned into nothing more than personal attacks at this point and are way off topic. I'm closing the comments.

Search

Today's VIP

btaso's avatar
Joined: June 2014
Newbie

Social Services

Want to join this discussion?

You should like, totally log in or sign up!