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GoNintendo Talking Points: IGN's Sony crew talks Switch & Nintendo - A Rebuttal

I watched a video IGN shared that featured some of their Sony crew discussing the Switch, as well as Nintendo in general. I thought I'd respond with my own two cents.

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Categories: Top Stories, Media, Consoles
Tags: nes, switch

Comments

Top Rated Comment
serebii
Fri Jan 06 17 07:45am
Rating: 18

1080p being a bad point is mindboggling.

I'll care more about 4k with gaming when developers can muster getting a solid 1080p60 in renderring

captainkamikaze
Fri Jan 06 17 06:35am
Rating: 5

Good job RMC, your points are solid and well formulated. Didn't come across as mean or picking on people at all. I find IGN relies on this nonsense far too often. It's a bloody video games website, why does everything always have to become a console wars? Sites like IGN should just support video games as a whole, instead of this. If I'm listening to a Nintendo podcast I don't want to hear people badmouthing Playstation, I want to hear them talking about Nintendo, and vice versa of course.

I don't care much about what IGN's Playstation division think, let them predict DOOOOOOOM all they want, which is only for clicks and views.

wesfx
Fri Jan 06 17 07:14am
Rating: 4

Don't feed the trolls.

carock
Fri Jan 06 17 07:32am
Rating: 4

Yeah, that's Brian Altano. He's very passionate and full of hyperbole, but it comes from a place of love. He's a huge Nintendo fan after all. He may have been playing to the Playstation audience, but they didn't spend a lot of time on Nintendo. I'll wait to hear more from him during tomorrow's NVC podcast.

Brian is actually one of the few people I enjoy watching whenever I spot an IGN news piece on here, you can tell he really love Nintendo.

serebii
Fri Jan 06 17 07:45am
Rating: 18

1080p being a bad point is mindboggling.

I'll care more about 4k with gaming when developers can muster getting a solid 1080p60 in renderring

No kidding huh! Like he said, if this was such a sticking point, why the hell do any of them play on consoles to begin with? Not to mention the fact that basically all of their supposed complaints are about details we have ZERO clue about as of yet.

sticker
Fri Jan 06 17 09:19am
Rating: 1

I don't see it as a bad point either, specially since 4k is not even a standard and I just can't tell the difference sitting 10 feet away from the TV. The only way to seriously note this when playing would be sitting in front of the screen like when you play on PC.
I prefer 720p 60fps over 1080p 30fps, specially since I like playing far away from the tv but I guess that won't be an option.

Fri Jan 06 17 10:13am
Rating: 1 (Updated 1 time)

I think Nintendo are probably going to be in trouble with Switch. It'll do alright initially but after a year the problems will become more clear. It's a jack of all trades but a master of none. It will be dismissed by the masses, again largely due to power. People mightn't like that but it's a reality just my opinion.

serebii
Fri Jan 06 17 12:26pm
Rating: 5 (Updated 1 time)

SNES
PS1
PS2
Wii
Game Boy
Game Boy Advance
DS
3DS

What's this list? It's a list of all the best selling consoles/handhelds in each of their respective generations when they were not the most powerful device on the market. Power does not make success

The SNES was far more capable than the Genesis aside from CPU Clock Speeds.

Yeah it was more capable than the Mega Drive, but not the NeoGeo

sinfield99
Fri Jan 06 17 08:20am
Rating: 3 (Updated 1 time)

God your YouTube comments have kicked off RMC. As said by the majority, I think you did a good job of discussing it because Brian's attitude did make me feel like he was giving Nintendo and it's fans a bit of a digging out. I do also listen to the IGN Nintendo podcast but it's still a bit shady of IGN to have a moan at Nintendo in a PS discussion...what did they think it would achieve anyway?

Won't be long before we know all the details, this could have at least waited until the facts were out.

The VR discussion is a joke, don't judge what you haven't seen yet....TRUST ME! hahaha!

Keep up the great work and roll on Jan 13th!

Hits from Nintendo fans/fanboys and that's just what RMC provided for IGN. I'm sure enough of his viewers/readers went over to the IGN video to put their two cents in giving them the ad revenue they were looking for.

ricklongo
Fri Jan 06 17 09:18am
Rating: 4

The problem with their video is that it's all based on a fallacy, and that's "this is how Sony and Microsoft do things, and they have been selling well, therefore this is how every company should do things". It's such a week argument that it gets mind boggling, especially when no one mentions the fact that the most successful console on the market right now is still Nintendo's 3DS.

I really did expect a lot more from Brian Altano specifically. His arguments are just lazy and commonplace here.

cgsasuke
Fri Jan 06 17 09:46am
Rating: 1

They are not going to bring up the 3ds because they don't see it as a gaming console. But yet if Vita was still alive kicking omg they would be talking about it kicking ass ect. For a dead system you don't hear them bashing it like they do with Wii U. But again they have to play it safe since they are on a Sony fan talk show but have no problem bashing us when Brian Altano talks ill on NVC about Wii U. 3ds beats PS2 sales no talk & again Vita alive & sells over Wii U omg Sony is KING!...Smh! Anyway....

RMC you did what you had to do & awesome take on it. So lets all wait for Nin to offically come out & state what the Switch is instead of jumping to clickbait which ''IGN'' & other do to get views.

There's also a lot of "this is how Nintendo used to do things", from when the SNES was the 3rd party standard.

I remember watching a Game Scoop segment or something, where they brainstormed what they wanted most from the NX. And what those 4 dudes came up with was basically just an HD SNES, or PS4. No mention of any other functionality or innovation. They just wanted to relive their glory days. So this Beyond segment doesn't surprise me.

These guys are treating rumors and speculation as fact and that makes their video null and void.

buuuuttttttt... as RMC pointed out, it's a lot of "what if" scenarios. Well, what if it gets great support? What if the specs surprise us? What if it dispenses sandwiches whenever you want one? And to their complaints about no 4k or VR support, first off you don't know that for sure, second as someone who had a 4k tv and playstation vr, there is very little support for it. Neither of those features are even close to the standard. And if you think they are then you sure as shovel shouldn't complain about a 9.99 game.

bentetris
Fri Jan 06 17 09:59am
Rating: 2

Only thing I really disagreed with RMC on is that 720p for VR is honestly pretty bad; you don't need to "wait and see" if 720p is fine for VR if you've already played VR. I've played around with a friend's Vive, and even then I felt like the resolution will need to be higher for really good VR, and it has a resolution of 2160 x 1200. However, I do want to add that I really don't think VR is a necessity for a console, so I'm not saying that this should be a dealbreaker for anyone, only that it's not unwarranted pessimism to say the system isn't suited to good convincing VR experiences at its resolution.

pxryguy
Fri Jan 06 17 10:01am
Rating: 2

I really don't give two farts about what the PS IGN staff have to say about Nintendo. No one is talking about the PS4 Pro, everyone is talking about and anticipating the Switch, so we'll just see how things roll on out after Jan. 12th. I'm really curious what they'll have to say after next week.

csp
Fri Jan 06 17 10:38am
Rating: 1 (Updated 6 times)

first of all VR is not doing well. Penetration is pathetic (they are still creaming the bloody idiots) price is prohibitive, there are no games you NEED to play on VR, there are fatigue limitations and a myriad of problems that made the playstation VR launch a disaster. VR is not going to become mainstream in this generation so the switch can say off VR without a major loss.

I agree with RMC in most of his points, yet I believe you have both missed the mark as there are other problems that Nintendo need to consider that could be impacting the switch sales. There are A LOT of long time fans who are disappointed with the WiiU and are NOT willing to spend more money on a console no one knows how well it will sell. Personally I have been a late adopter of sony and M$ consoles and an early nintendo adopter, I have NEVER felt more cheated about a console that not even nintendo managed to keep their promises. I believe I paid too much for a console that did not deliever and I was a happy early adopter of the N64 and GC consoles. So trust me if there is one problem impacting sales on day one,it is the existing long time customer dissatisfaction. Nintendo NEED to give an inentive to wiiu owners to get the switch day one, else they may not be getting the initial momentum they want. (AND need for the 2nd wave third party support)

Just something else I need to point out about the creation of a legion of sony "fans" who review games. Sony was (and still is from what I hear) VERY generous with the press. When the PSP launched, they gave each reviewer the console and the game for free TO KEEP and if the game had multiplayer...they gave them TWO consoles and TWO games for them to review. Nintendo NEVER EVER did anything similar and I believe this is one of the reasons you get a lot of praise for mediocre sony products (ie Move - have spent a lot of time with move games, you can NOT play okami with that button placement) and be overly harsh on the kiddie image nintendo have.

and that comes from someone who has been VERY critical to nintendo because I am a nintendo gamer and I DO care and I ironically I have recieved nintendo promotional material for free and not from sony or mirosoft.

I believe the "incentive" to buy a console are the games you can play on it. If dissatisfied Wii U owners want to play the games avaialable on Switch, they'll buy a Switch.

Sorry to hear you feel you overpaid for your Wii U. At the end of the day, I too was disappointed by much of how the Wii U era unfolded. That said, I enjoy a lot about the console, and have a robust library of software for it (dozens of retail games, hundreds of eShop and VC games,) so personally, I could never say I feel cheated about the $300 I paid.

Anyway, hopefully you are happier with the Switch if you decide to buy it!

vonter
Fri Jan 06 17 11:41am
Rating: 1

I'll argue the incentive have changed. Hype is a marketing tool more than ever that we've seen time and time again how flawed games do get sales do to hype and shooting for the moon. We know Nintendo games (for the most part) are good, but their reveal trailers have been kind of underwhelming during this console cycle. They need like with the Switch's reveal trailer and even the Mario Run or Pokemon Go trailer, bring the excitement even if the experience isn't that. It's more about perception than facts what moved people's decisions in 2016.

ddark
Fri Jan 06 17 12:27pm
Rating: 1 (Updated 1 time)

I completely agree with what you are saying (even on a broader less game-centric scale.) Perception and believing what one wants to believe seem to be more important to people than actual facts and truths now.

That said, I still stand by what I said. Whether it's wanting a game because your perception of it or wanting it because it's actually a high quality experience, if one wants to buy and play games available on Switch, they'll buy a Switch. In the end, that's the only "incentive" that will matter.

Take the 3DS for example. It sold well enough throughout its life, but has seen an uptick in the last 6 months. Why? It's not because Nintendo gave some sort of "incentive" to disaffected past DS owners. It's because these new adopters wanted to play Pokémon games available for the system, so they took the plunge. Content is king.

nintendo have never hyped like other companies have. Yes there have been a few good videos here and there, but the in your face "YOU GOT TO BUY THIS" is not their strategy. With the switch, they made a good impression yes and it is true that there is a good wind made by the popularity of pokemon go that keeps the nintendo brand in the spotlight (though as RMC said, they are not involved with go at all) but the 3DS had huge lines on E3, people were very excited to play with the console...everyone (including myself) thought, this will sell like hot cakes...

...and then the console launched without any proper games, people did not buy it. So what happened? Price drop, lots of support from nintendo, promises WERE kept from nintendo, third party support,sales started picking up, GOOD third party support and TODAY we see the 3DS being oe of the most sought after items on ebay, with a gamestop price of 170Eu (true story) and a MATURE platform with GOOD third party games that will keep selling for at least 2 more years.

WiiU. Initial launch with no big nintendo names, lots of inferior third party ports. Too expensive based on the competition (remember that part, you can get a new xbox one today at 200 eu) . Nintendo failed to keep their promises, games like pikmin 3 were slipping, third party explusives turned to multiplatform + release delays, people were putting the purchase on hold, third party cancellations and...Nintendo PULLED OUT after mario kart 8. This is what made wiiu owners feel cheated and this is what makes them reluctant to purchase day one. A disaster of a story with dissatisfied customers who wish they bought a wiiu cheaper and people who did get it cheaper only to wait for a switch price cut. None of these groups are willing to become early adopters.

So even if the new launch (good move!) mario makes my jaw drop like 3D world (loved that game!), even if we get to see 5 year old ports (skyrim) on the system, the console will be a tough sell to wiiu owners unless there is a NEW experience that IS a big budget game and nintendo gives all wiiu NIDs something on switch for free. The way I see it, hype notwithstanding, there is no way for not even nintendo to predict switch sales.

my two cents.

The problem with the 3DS and Wii U where both of those times were designed because the 3rd parties kept whining that they can't compete with Nintendo games.

So Nintendo said "Okay... here is a time where you get to show your stuff right away." and then third parties go "NO NO NO! GOTTA PROVE IT'S GONNA SELL! LETS GIMP OUR OWN GAMES TO SHOW A POINT!"

I like most of the people at IGN and heard this on Beyond earlier this week. Glad to see someone talking about this though. This whole section felt pretty off to me. Felt like Brian specifically was really off base in most of this video. Really off putting since he is a part of IGNs Nintendo show.

cgsasuke
Fri Jan 06 17 12:40pm
Rating: 1

At the end of the day are they really gamers or actors trying to make a living is what I think. They all want to beat that dead horse to death but Nintendos horses keep on running & running. They kept beating down Metroid other M calling KT out for breaking the game. The news went on for years on the Wii haunting the series. But yet No Man Sky PS game gets hurt for what about few months & its no where to be talked or seen again on website like how other M was for years.

lewdparty
Fri Jan 06 17 10:54am
(Updated 1 time)

They need a good console. But they're neglecting the 3DS

Well the 3DS really isn't a console, or at least if you ask the majority of people when they think of consoles. Something that plays on your big HDTV. Just look at some Monster Hunter fans out there clinging to the idea of the mainline series returning TO consoles for example.

Overall I agree on what was said on both sides.

MH fan right here & I don't want MH to return to the tv that much. I got into Tri on the Wii & still love it. MH3U comes out but this time they gave us the option to play on the tv & on the go so I bought both. I still enjoy playing 3U on the tv & 3ds but the MH gamers that want it on tv are the sour MH PS fans that want it back on their system. For me I consider the 3ds as a console because it does what another tv console does which steals time for entertainment in the video game world.

Ha, I know you're a MH fan, seen you post in the articles. But yea wherever it may be I too will continue to hunt Monsters.

lol, yeah I didn't think I would love the series at 1st starting from Tri but it amazed me how different it felt from the other games I played my whole life! I can still remember that 1st feelings to the gameplay & how great the graphics look which was nice for it at the time. But the most iconic moment for me in tri was when a friend told me to jump off the cliff to land into the next area which I did to only to land down onto a incoming devil jho in which I screamed like a girl running away. I yelled out so loud in the mic that I could hear my voice from his tv, lmao!

I got into monster hunter thanks to the 3ds, but I'm dying for a console version of the game on a Nintendo Console (Loved MH3U, but It feels outdated after playing 4 or Gen). It's just not the same playing on a handheld than on the TV. Specially since you never play 10 or 15 minutes of MH, I always play for like an hour and playing on a handheld that much makes me tired easily.

Hopefully we'll see a Switch version of it, maybe one compatible with the 3DS like they did with 3U, so we can all be happy

Yes I understand. At first when I got 3U I could not get back into it as much as Tri because in Tri I was so addicted to it in which I made every single weapon & armor from low to high just for show. So when I learnt that I had to start over in 3U I just got bored trying to get to the newer stuff. But man 4U takes it to a new level of greatness. Gen is ok but its lacking a lot of 4U feelings. Yes the new styles makes it fun but if Cc goes back & updates 4U to include those hunting styles then omg would online explode on it again. Don't give up on MH Switch because Cc still has not annouce the other system coming soon aspect on MHXX website. So stay tuned!

hyliantom
Fri Jan 06 17 11:31am
Rating: 2

"Oh noooes.. this machine isn't capable of rendering each individual butthair on the bokoblin that Link is fighting! Therefore, the system sucks, and the game will suck, too!"

How wretchedly shallow.

mr_ry
Fri Jan 06 17 12:41pm
Rating: 1

That was a good rebuttal RMC. IGN is always a source for head-scratching Nintendo viewpoint. Not so much in recent years but you can find them occasionally in their video discussions.

I think like always at IGN, they're jumping the gun. "Oh no, Mass Effect and Red Dead is not coming to Switch. Oh the battery. Oh it's not 4K. No VR. It's doomed. Back to the drawing boards they go." We don't even have the official details yet. smh

ddark
Fri Jan 06 17 12:46pm
Rating: 3 (Updated 1 time)

I don't think the power or capabilities of the system will matter in the end when it comes to success and I've said this since the reveal trailer.

One word: Pokémon.

If this system plays main series Pokémon games, it will inevitably do better than the Wii U. Combine that with the stable of other Nintendo IPs all being on one system (no console-portable market split) and it'll do fine.

We are talking about franchises that manage to sell millions of copies regardless of what platforms they are on, and with the Switch, they are all going to eventually be on one single system. How that can be completely overlooked and take a backseat to "1080p vs 4K" is beyond me.

I'd also look to the major Japanese properties from third parties like Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, and Yokai Watch. At the least, the Switch will do really, really well in Japan. The portable side for those games appeal to them while overseas players can play a game like Monster Hunter on the big HD screen.

ddark
Fri Jan 06 17 02:08pm
Rating: 1

Couldn't agree more!

The software lineup for this console has some real potential, in my opinion. It's a huge counterpoint to all of IGN's doom and gloom. Yet it didn't even cross their minds. We're talking about a video game console and yet a majority of their focus was on resolutions and batteries.

Fri Jan 06 17 01:11pm
(Updated 1 time)

Well the whole IGN video was very 2013. And fortunately the Switch ad started things off well, enough to keep at bay a lot of 'Nintendooming' that media sites hit a peak with in 2013, I feel. Certainly there's a media slaughter waiting for them after the presentation depending on reactions. I even read a ridiculous piece on The Atlantic site about Nintendo recently that did many of the same cheap jabs at Nintendo that was in this IGN bit. But Im hopeful Switch will not be "just another Wii U".

A lot of hand wringing over nothing. Good points or not, we don't know how things will turn out. Nintendo might make all the right choices with Switch and it might still get a lukewarm reception. Or it could be lousy, antiquated hardware that catches on because it was the right idea at the right time. Whether or not anyone wants to admit it there's reasons to be skeptical about Nintendo. After all, I heard a lot of the same defenses of Wii U and look how that turned out. But we all know that Nintendo has a way of surprising everyone, so they should never be completely written off. In all fairness to IGN, that's not what they were doing.

Hey RMC, this is actually the first video post of yours that I've watched and I was thoroughly impressed. Your rebuttal was both factual and intelligent. Very well done.

I truly wish they had you on that vidcast so you could throw cold cold water all over those unfounded comments.

Great job.

NB: if they really care about real dialogue, the next time they have one of those vidcast, they'll invite you round for a REAL discussion.

Sonic cycle for third-party games is a little early, but the elements are definitely there. Third-party support on Switch looks to be better than Wii U, but Wii U might as well have not existed for standard publishing third-parties. i.e. The kinds that put out games on Sony/Microsoft. If you're still a Nintendo console owner after all these generations, you've hopefully come to terms with they'll never be like on SNES again. Just enjoy the third-party games that do come out that you like and try not to focus on the ones that don't. Or get a PC and/or other system to play those, if you really want to. Nintendo systems have the greatest publisher in the world making games exclusively for Nintendo systems. If that's enough for you to own the Nintendo systems with the absence of most other games in the video game continuum, go for it.

joeman1
Fri Jan 06 17 01:47pm
Rating: 1

I am going to post what I did on your video:

Great rebuttal RMC. You and I come from the same generation of gaming. I honestly don't get why buzzwords like "1080p", "HD" last gen and "4K" and "60 FPS" have become the standard. These are all advertising gimmicks if you ask me. I really am not concerned because for the first time you will have both the handheld and home console teams working together to make games for a single unit. Nintendo has the largest amount of first parties which have been divided between both for the longest time now there will only be one platform to support that we know of and that should boost game output.

I think the IGN folks are just taking a few somewhat valid complaints with Nintendo and exaggerating quite a bit. Probably to stir up some discussion for views, etc.
My biggest gripe is with Nintendo's online structure, but there's too much unknown at this point to make accurate judgements.

I do find it annoying that Nintendo won't put out specs comparable to X1/PS4. I get they aren't interested in competing in that space, but it would help in a lot areas in my opinion, especially with 3rd party support.

Also, 1080p is pretty standard for the console portion, but the portable switch screen will be fine at 480/720p or whatever it ends up being at.

hawk
Fri Jan 06 17 04:09pm
Rating: 1

Two points for you, RMC:

- Resolution really is a big deal when it comes to VR. Having the screen that close to your face, if the resolution is too low it creates what they call the "screen door effect." It makes it look like you're viewing the world through a screen door, and that breaks the immersion for people. Screen Door Effect is an issue even on many 1080p games, so 720p VR will definitely have some problems.

- When several months after its launch you STILL can't get an NES Classic Edition (other than from scalpers) then YES it's a big issue that you can't preoder it. I'm guessing Nintendo sent you one, but the rest of us have been watching ads, refreshing Amazon pages, and standing in lines. Lack of preorders only empowers scalpers to rip people off.

Other that those two things, you made some pretty good points. I wouldn't expect the Sony branch of IGN to give Nintendo a fair chance anyway.

It sounds like the NES Classic Pre Order issue was just a US problem.

In the UK, I pre-ordered 2 and got them both prior to the launch date via ShopTo. They are all out of stock now however still after the Christmas shopping spree:
http://www.nowinstock.net/uk/videogaming/consoles/nesclassicmini/

It is funny though how people go on about specs all the time, I think it all stemmed from the big PC boom in the 90's where in order to get Dungeon Keeper to run in DOS you had to prepare you machine for the recommended spec prior to release to avoid being disappointed when you popped the disc in.

Before that, nobody gived a chuff! As you say RMC, it was all about which games line up was the best (and how cool the box art looked in the shop along with the 3 screenshots on the back!!). 3rd Parties develop based on install base and now that specs are SO important to people when buying a console...Sony & Microsoft basically govern the hardware requirements for the console generation. As long as the Switch provides a future proofed platform which 3rd party developers will be happy to work on for the next 5-7 years...thats all I hope for in terms of spec.

Having said that, why I have I stuck by Nintendo and become the fanboy I am today if Nintendo consoles are such a disappoint then Brian? It's because there is no other console that delivers the 1st Party quality that Nintendo provides.

With regards VR, I haven't tried PSVR yet...I can't wait to as i'm sure it is impressive. The Sony solution is obviously the baseline which stemmed the out cry about trusting 720p will be poo! However, I very much doubt that the big N will release a VR solution which isn't up to par given the competition in the market already.

He's obviously very frustrated at the moment with Nintendo in general so it will be good to hear his reaction to the Switch press conference in the NVC podcast that follows it. I hope it changes his tune! :-)

These guys say 4k and VR is what matters and they actually think they're the ones being in sync with the times ?

God the playstation crowd has gotten even worst.

Every single person in this panel considers themselves Nintendo fans.

mlt-malavida
Sat Jan 07 17 03:16am
(Updated 2 times)

So ?
There is litterally no link between my assertion and your answer. Does that make their ridiculous comments about 4k and VR valid in any way ? VR is a failure this far and I don't expect it will change any time soon because the guys behind it have very few creative juice and are just realizing now that doing the same thing they've been doing for years doesn't work with VR. They wanted to recreate the Wii, they now see why the Wii actually was something else. VR is overpriced, it barely works and the PSVR in particular is notably worst compared to some others.

4k is just another format Sony is trying to shove down our collective throat to make us buy new screens. It's useless so far in the eyes of many, just like 3d screens didn't do well, it doesn't really show that there is a need for it beyond the dubious business practice that is Sony's specialty and will eventually result in us buying anyway when we normally replace our old screens because 4k will be the only thing available on the market in a couple years.

To use 4k and VR as arguments against the Switch is absolute hypocrisy and shows how much these guys do not know what the market wants nowadays anyway. I mean it's not even Sony fanboyism at this point, it's just absurd. As some others have said, very few, and I mean VERY few devs actually pull stable 1080p/60fps anyway. What are we talking about here ? How big Sony's c*ck is or is it freaking GAMES we're talking about ? Is this all just a spec contest to the point where we even ignore the fact that even the freaking devs, people that are responsible for the games we love, even them don't have use of these technologies ? I'm sorry I was under the impression that IGN was a GAMING news site. I thought these things we buy are not just here sitting in our houses or appartments as some sort of objects of admiration, to show how much we like modern technologies, I thought they were here to play GAMES because, you know they're GAMING machines.

Also you know who is one of the very few devs who pull 1080p/60fps ? Nintendo is.

I'm only referring tot he fact that you pretty much assumed them to be Sony fanboys despite each and every one of them being enthusiastic Nintendo fans. Some of them are more fans of Nintendo than Sony, like Brian Altano.

I think we can agree that VR is a failed product and will never work due to many issues it encounters. These limitations cannot be fixed well enough to have mass or even hardcore appeal.

I am also aware that Sony is trying to force 4K to sell more TVs.

However, being 4K compatible would future-proof the system because eventually, Sony and other TV manufacturers will make sure that you can't get 1080P one day.

Nintendo pulls off 1080p/60 FPS sometimes, not always. Star Fox Zero can't even keep a stable framerate or even get close to 30. The Wii U version of Breath of the Wild is seemingly having major issues. Xenoblade Chronicles X sometimes has frame issues and doesn't run at 60 FPS. So yes, they do sometimes. Not always.

When Brian Altano brought battery life, he was pretty much explaining how Nintendo often fudges things up on various key important points, destroying all of their hard work despite initial hype being at an all time high. People want Nintendo to succeed, but Nintendo often does something that sets them back, whether it's using cartridges in the N64 era, using mini disks on Gamecube, motion controls (which hurt them in the long run), the gamepad, 3D screens, and being several generations behind when it comes to online.

Battery life does matter because I will be playing it on the go almost every single time. I am always in public transit. It needs a hefty battery since I spend hours traveling every day.

Most third parties on Wii were pretty bad. I'd rather have quality and quantity than just quantity.

Nintendo games not buying third party games is actually true. Even at parity, often, the games just sell better on other systems. Sure, we do buy some third parties, when they are heavily backed by Nintendo. Even then, it's rarely as much as a first party Nintendo game. It is true that we often got shafted, but we also must put things into perspective. Nintendo consoles have been under-powered since the Wii. Sacrifices have to be made sadly. The Gamecube and prior however, they had no excuses. The Gamecube was more capable than a PS2. Nintendo fans have to be more willing to try new things, just as third parties need to stop creating trash ports.

The Mass Effect argument, i agree with. You can't build a fanbase on Nintendo systems by treating them worse. If anything, they should be handed a few bones to build a new fanbase. There is a lot of mistrust to repair.

Battery life again: What Brian is arguing is that bad battery life could be a potential issue. He's not arguing that it IS an issue. He's looking at possibilities here.

Jank controllers: Wii, Wii U, Nintendo has a history of jank. Gimmicks could sour the experience for many and divide the fanbase again. Sure, so far, it is looking good, but we don't know everything. Maybe games will force the IR sensor. We don't know.

About coming up with negative points: They are simply arguing that a lot of things could go wrong, and to keep hype in check until we know more. There is nothing unfair about debating possibilities. Brian has made no claims that these were factual. He was by definition, fair.

Framerate: If it is overclocked when plugged in, then it makes sense to think that framerate when unplugged could be an issue.

VR: Don't care, myself. However, VR at less 1080p makes people extremely sick. Mind you, 1080p does as well, just less. That is documented.

Graphics: Why not want your games to look better? Personally, I'm more into performance, but if my games look better on my console, all other things being equal, than other consoles, that is a bonus to consider. Personally though, 60FPS is more important.

NES Classic edition: Entitled...? Gamers are consummers and they should expect more, always. A consummer that isn't acting "entitled" i snot acting like a smart consumer. The role of a consumer is to demand better value. The short cords ARE a big deal. We have to buy extra cables just to play the games at a comfortable distance. They are very much behind the times. I'm about to lose count of how many times people knocked my NES classic off the table because they pulled on the cord reactively. Nintendo did make a huge mistake here. Yes, I am THAT annoyed by it because it added unnecessary costs.

Can't preorder: You got a press copy. You don't understand the frustrations people go through to get these. There are still people who wanted one for Christmas who haven't even SEEN one. It's extremely frustrating to want to buy something and having to freeze your proverbial behind in front of a store for an entire night just to be told that you couldn't get one because they only got three. That is an entire night wasted. This is blatantly anti-consumer, just to create artificial scarcity. No disrespect intended, but if you get free review copies of a rare thing and never have to hunt it down for months on end, you really should consider getting in our shoes and trying to understand our reality.

Reset button: Again, why are we excusing bad design? "It's not a big deal" is not an acceptable excuse. We should expect MORE from companies.

No disrespect intended, but some of the things you've said really didn't sit well with me, especially when it came to the NES classic. It felt a little ignorant of the plight of common consumers.

I think a lot of what RMC said is that the IGN vidcast was focusing on all the things that COULD go wrong with the switch and often posturing comments as if they were fact.

It's easy to pick "problems" with unreleased products but the truth is that none of what they said is based on any actual hard evidence.

About the battery life, how many hours a day do you commute? I plan to take my switch in to work and play it on my lunch which is an hour max. Also, I think in this day and age where everyone and their grandma has a portable charger in their bags, battery life suddenly seems a non-issue.

On the NES Classic, I'm not sure about the US but in the UK, there were numerous places you could preorder. It's all sold out and hard to get now but before it was released, it was easy to get a preorder. And about this whole artificial scarcity argument, I think that's also a moot point. At what stage do you say "OK, it's been long enough now. Let's make this available again." The more likely scenario is that Nintendo didn't anticipate the demand and didn't manufacturer enough to satisfy everyone. And this is why I preorder things. If I'm sure I want it, then I preorder. There are many online retailers that you can preorder with that don't charge until the item is shipped (if you're not willing to part with your money straight away). I've already preordered and paid for my switch because I know I want it and I'm not waiting until it's released and sold out. Then people who don't get one will start banging that "artificial scarcity" drum.

I commute about 3.5 hours a day.

In the US, people who tried to preorder didn't actually have the option. In seconds, it was gone. In Canada, it is even worse as stores got about two each, same with online retailers. In other words, the only way to get an NES classic in North America is to have Internet 100% of the time and pressing F5 all day every day and hoping to get lucky.

For the Switch, I'm not preordering. I have some interest in it, but I got a Wii and it is my most hated of all time. I got a Wii U, and I did not like it much. It's been twice in a row that I was heavily disappointed. Preordering itself is actually anti-consummer. The smart thing to do is wait and see where things go.

ejadaddy
Sat Jan 07 17 12:36pm
(Updated 1 time)

OK. I guess you guys were unlucky with the NES Classic. I believe Nintendo heavily underestimated the demand.

Sounds like Nintendo consoles aren't your thing if you disliked both the Wii and WiiU. I doubt the Switch won't change your mind cos you'll be only guaranteed to get the best Nintendo games. From all indications, it'll be recharged via USB and if the actual battery life is somewhere between 3-5hrs, then I'd say that good for your commute.

Other thing is, Nintendo have announced that they'll be shipping 2million units at launch so by the time you decide you want one, you may not be able to get one until much later. Like I said, if I'm sure I want something, I preorder it. If I change my mind later on, I can either cancel or get a refund.

"Sounds like Nintendo consoles aren't your thing if you disliked both the Wii and WiiU."

You say that, yet my favourite console of all time is the Gamecube. I also count the SNES as my second favourite. I also owned and enjoyed every single Nintendo system prior except for the Virtual Boy. I was known as a Nintendo fanboy back in the day; a vehement one at that. The way you talk, it's like if someone said that because he didn't like eating rare steak, he hated ALL meat.

Let me enlighten you as to my personal tastes:

I loved and still love every Nintendo home console that came before the Wii. I disliked every Wii-branded systems. What's the difference between them? There are several.

1. Prior systems has no controller gimmicks. No motion controls, no second screen, no touch interface.
2. Prior systems had a larger library of quality third parties
3. Prior systems had higher quality games in general.
4. The Wii brand focused on a new market, casuals.

It stands to reason that one can love several systems form one brand and dislike others, just like how I very much disliked Dell back in the day but have since gotten a far better service, and I've started doing business with them again. There is a clear difference between the Nintendo of the 80's and 90's and the current Nintendo both in direction and methodology.

I personally find it illogical that you'd jump to the conclusions that Nintendo systems aren't for me without knowing my history with Nintendo, and Nintendo's history itself, it seems. I also find it intriguing that your first reaction to me having doubts is immediately "Maybe you should go away". Instead of trying to discuss with fans about their doubts and trying to understand where they are coming from, and perhaps coming to the conclusion that we'd all be better off if Nintendo listened to its critics in order to truly evolve, your reaction is basically "don't like it? Leave then". I honestly don't find this very practical discourse.

Also, 3-5 hours does not count the entire day spent in sleep mode to not lose progress. In other words, 3-5 hours is enough on the way there, not enough to come back. That means lugging around a battery pack every day and recharging it every time I go to sleep. And that doesn't coutn the times I have dinner with people and have to wait for them to arrive.

Them shipping only two million is ridiculous, especially if demand is higher than that. It's artificial scarcity all over again. I am willing to wait until I know all there is to know about the system.

ejadaddy
Sat Jan 07 17 04:23pm
Rating: 1

The reason I said Nintendo isn't for you is because, in my opinion, the Wii and WiiU represent all that Nintendo has been for the past 10-12 years. Yes, the Wii had non-traditional controllers but that doesn't mean it wasn't home to some of the most innovative and downright awesome games in Nintendo's history.

For example, Mario Galaxy 1&2 are the epitome of platforming goodness. A lot of people agree that Metroid Prime and Pikmin play better with the Wiimote control system.

Also, save for the NES and SNES, I don't think any other Nintendo console enjoyed 3rd party support quite like the Wii. Yes, it may have been short lived but it was in full force while it lasted. 3rd parties actually played to the Wii's strengths and to some people's annoyance, the Wii's demographic. Were there tons of shovelware? Hell yes! But that's what you get when everybody and their uncle wants to publish games on a thriving console. The ps2 was great and had tons of mediocre games. Same with the DS. Tons of good games and tons of crap ones.

Then there is the WiiU. Nintendo's attempt to cater to the "hardcore gamer". Yes, it had a "gimmick" but being a family man, the gamepad has been indispensable to me. Did you play ZombiU? It is the most underrated game of all time and an absolutely stunning showcase of what the gamepad can be used for. Best survival horror game of this generation IMO.

Yes, it basically survived on Nintendo games alone but they were some of the best in their respective franchises and some of the 2nd party stuff are fantastic (Bayonetta, Wonderful 101 etc). Save for Metroid and Zelda (which is still coming), the WiiU had games from almost every other Nintendo franchise.

So that's why I said Nintendo don't seem to be for you cos you haven't liked them for the last 10-12 years and I don't think it's gonna change with the Switch cos it's very Nintendo.

Regarding the 2 million units, it may be ridiculous cos everyone believes it'll sell out but it's in no way, shame or form "artificial scarcity". Every company deals with projections and this is what they've projected to sell around launch. It's a modest projection IMO and I'm not taking the risk of waiting until launch. I like what I've seen/heard so far so it's a definite "Yes!"

And about battery life, I don't think it'll exceed 3-5. Everyone I know carries a battery pack on them so it won't be an issue for the likes of us. Plus, you can always charge it at work. Do you charge your phone every night? Well, same thing with the Switch. Get home, put it on the dock to charge and continue playing on your TV. Simples!

The past decade doe snot represent Nintendo as a whole. Like all things, they go through phases, just like how I honestly think that the PS4 era is when Sony became anti-consumer.

I actually think that the Gamecube houses Nintendo's most innovative games by several miles. Melee, the most innovative and brilliant take on Smash Bros. F-Zero GX, a brilliant redesign of the F-Zero formula. Super mario Sunshine, not perfect, but certainly new and interesting. The Thousand Year Door, great evolution on the battle system, using a crowd to influence battle as well as using background elements in battle. Eternal Darkness, a brand new take on the horror genre. Metroid Prime, a complete reinvention of Metroid in 3D that still feels right. Wind Waker, some of the more innovative designs in the series. Twilight Princess, some of the most innovative dungeon layouts in Zelda (despite my issues with the game itself), Custom Robo, and interesting new take on combat, etc... None of these requires a gimmick. I feel that most Wii games, while "innovative", innovate in the worst possible way. They add gimmicks as opposed to innovating in the direction of improving design. Innovation for the sake of grabbing attention, not for the sake of bettering the user experience.

Also, a "few" people claim that Pikmin and Metroid play better with a Wiimote. Not most.

The PS2 had shovelware, yes. Nothing to the level of the Wii. High quantity is fine, so long as quality is up as well. Nintendo's third party software was laughable in quality for the most part. It is comparable to mobile in terms of how low quality the vast majority of games were. In a sense, to me, they are null value. A trash game to me doesn't add to the value of a console. I don't even count it as a game. If you actually only count good games on the Wii, I can count them on one hand.

Wii U tried to cater to casuals once again. Nintendo Land and other games trying to use Wiimotes and the Gamepad show this. However, it bit them in the behind when it turned out that casuals went to mobile, abandoning console gaming altogether. If Nintendo had catered to core gamers, then 100% of games they made would be gimmickless, or not require them at the very least.

I played Zombi U. It was a mediocre roguelike survival game that played better on XBox One, PS4 and PC for not having gamepad usage. I did not enjoy it at all.

Bayonetta was great, and so was Hyrule Warriors for instances. Only a few of those is not enough.

Wii U was missing MANY franchises like Pokémon (a real one), Fire Emblem, F-Zero, Wario, Paper Mario (a real one), Metroid, a new Zelda (BotW is a Switch game, I don't count a sub 30FPS inferior game), Advance Wars, Custom Robo, etc... It is not true that it had most franchises...

The Switch actually seems to emphasize choice, which is an extremely different Nintendo from the Wii and Wii U days that tried to force gimmicks down your throat. The continuous mentions of the pro controller is encouraging. If Nintendo starts focusing on game design as opposed to gimmicks, then they'll be closer to their 80's and 90's counterpart.

Your scarcity post made no sense. I don't know how to respond.

For battery: You fail to understand that people live different realities from yours. I am a working adult who lives in some place remote from his job. It is going to be a nuisance to carry a battery pack and recharge it every single night along with the Switch itself. I sometimes don't even sleep at my own house because of work. "It works for me" is you using a very limited scope of logic. You fail to consider the needs of a wide variety of people, only focusing on your own.

ejadaddy
Sat Jan 07 17 06:22pm
Rating: 1

OK. So basically, you want a Nintendo branded Ps4/Xbox. That's what it sounds like to me. Nintendo have always gone a different way. At least when they've had real competition to contend with. And "gimmicks" has always been a Nintendo thing. The Wii just brought that to the forefront. They had the Lightgun & powerglove on the NES and the super scope & score master on the SNES. N64 had a funky controller( which I love) and GameCube had a handle, mini discs and a controller that was built around Metroid Prime.

My point is that Nintendo have always been different and will continue to be so...For better or worse. They never abandon their ideas and their identity (the virtual boy is proof of that). More than 10 years ago, Miyamoti talked about not needing a traditional TV to play games. Everyone thought he was talking about VR. Turns out the WiiU was that thought brought to life.

I loved the GameCube too but that wasn't Nintendo's finest moment from a financial pov. The cube came 3rd to the ps2 and Xbox and Nintendo suffered financially. Had it not been for the Gameboy advance, I really don't know what would have become of them.

Enter the DS and Wii, and "it prints money" becomes a real thing. Say what you want about the Wii but Nintendo is still surviving on the bank it made from that era.

And in terms of "user experience", I can write a thesis on the Wii and how it got the user experience spot on. Sure it didn't appeal to the "hardcore gamer" but it brought people who'd never pick up a games console and made gaming main stream.

About Nintendo and game design, I don't think there's ever been a time when they haven't been focused on game design. Even at their "gimmickest", they still pumped out great titles ala Mario Galaxy, Smash bros, Fire emblem, Metroid Prime 3, Paper Mario, Skyward Sword etc.

My scarcity post was simply "Nintendo don't do artificial scarcity". I worked in retail during the Wii and DS period and I can tell you that it wouldn't have mattered how many Nintendo put out, they constantly sold out just couldn't keep up with the demand.

Like I said, it seems to me that what you want is a Nintendo skinned ps4/Xbox. If that's the case, why not just buy/stick to a ps4/Xbox. And somewhere down the line when the Switch has had a price drop and most of the games you want are released, you can pick one up.

About battery life, I do not fail to see other realities different to mine. I'm just basing my opinion on what is common place. And battery packs are common place today. You didn't answer my question regarding whether or not you charge your phone everyday. If you do, then I don't see why you can't with the Switch. From the sounds of it, you'll be playing it mostly on the go so I think a battery pack is a must for you. The fact that you sometimes have to sleep away from home, I'd say a battery pack is essential for you regardless of the Switch.

Anyways, I've enjoyed our conversation and I'd really like to hear your thoughts after the full reveal on Friday 13th.

" So basically, you want a Nintendo branded Ps4/Xbox."

That is what Nintendo fanboys always say to avoid addressing the issue at hand. A console's uniqueness is determined by its games, not by its gimmicks. A standardized Nintendo console would still be the only one with Mario, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Pokémon, Star Fox, F-Zero, etc... That in end of itself would not make it "another PS4" or "Another XBOX".

The light gun of the NES was used for one game and tossed aside. The power Glove was actually made by Mattel and not forced upon consumers. The NES had no forced gimmick.

The gamecube's handle, a gimmick? How? It was a standard home console. The handle did not affect gameplay in an conceivable way. Mini disks were a poor choice of storage media, but I don't see how this is a gimmick. It's not a controller. The Gamecube controller was also not built around Metroid Prime. It was an evolution of the N64 controller that tried to make it easy to understand which actions were more important. To this day, it is the best controller I've ever held. Hardly a gimmick, again.

Let me define what a gimmick is: "A feature added to a product for the sole purpose of grabbing attention". Your examples do not match up.

Nintendo has only started implementing gimmicks on their console (like motion for example) since the DS/Wii era. I guess Virtual Boy could count, but other than that, Nintendo has pretty much been gimmick-free. Any gimmick they had was optional until then and had to be bought separately from the main unit. All of their prior consoles were industry standard. What made them special was "game design", not gimmicks.

The Gamecube did not fail for lack of gimmicks, but clearly because they abused the trust of third parties, charging them ridiculously high royalties as well as mini disk that caused their hardware to be extremely limited. The Wii's success was due to a passing fad, which is now long dead. To continue the Wii route would be suicide.

Sure, it brought new people to console gaming, but it did not retain them. People who bought a Wii were quick to throw it aside once they played a few rounds of Wii Sports. Casual gamers turned their attention to mobile devices, which offer plenty of similar quality experiences, and they get to do it on the toilet to boot. Nintendo did not get them to come back because they never turned these casuals into actual gamers. By giving them bare-bones, limited and shallow experiences, these people never got to understand what made gaming special and never respected the art of it as a result. Casuals have no brand loyalty.

By focusing solely on casual users, they threw aside their core and hardcore userbase, causing them to leave. They either stopped gaming, or turned to Sony, Microsoft or Steam for their gaming needs. Consumer trust was left in tatters, and now that core and hardcore gamers became the majority in the console market again, Nintendo is left with two problems:

1. Casuals left them and are not coming back.
2. Core and hardcore gamers don't trust them.

Luckily for Nintendo, they hold many key IPs that people love very much, and even with broken trust, they can reel gamers back in if they start going on a path of redemption towards gamers. In other words, a full commitment to core and hardcore experiences is needed. While the Wii made them a lot of money, there is no denying that it did heavy long term damage to the brand. There are still many who mock Nintendo to this day because of the Wii and won't even touch anything they make with an eleven foot pole because of the Wii. Short term success for long term damage.

Mario galaxy: Could have been done with a modern controller. I did it on Dolphin, plays like a dream.
Smash Brawl: The worst game in the series by far.
Fire Emblem: it was all right, poorly balanced however.
Metroid Prime 3: Unplayable. No modern controller option was a mistake.
Super Paper Mario: Not a Paper Mario game.
Skyward Sword: The most reviled game in the series to most. Sold the worst of all home console mainline Zeldas, on the console with the largest userbase. Clearly, people hated it.

Nintendo clearly does artificial scarcity: Amiibo and NES classic show this. Limited editions show this. They are clearly capable of producing more, they chose not to to drive hype. Wii and DS were unexpected in terms of sales, and they released a LOT more at least. Nowadays, they are actually limiting numbers despite being aware of high demand.

"it seems to me that what you want is a Nintendo skinned ps4/Xbox. If that's the case, why not just buy/stick to a ps4/Xbox."

See? This is what I hate about Nintendo fanboyism. Instead of addressing the issue, you tell me to go away. I WANT a Nintendo console, one that give me a CHOICE to use a MODERN controller. Again, even the PS4 is EXTREMELY different yo the XBOX One. PS4 has Dragon Quest Builder, it has Persona 5, it has Valkyria Chronciles, it has The Last Guardian, it has Destiny, etc... It has games the XBONE doesn't have. That by design makes it unique. The same is true the other way around. Don't act as if Nintendo is a special snowflake. It is not. What differentiates consoles is GAMES. You've clearly never played on another system if you think that they are exactly the same. Remember Nintendo's old Gamecube days motto: "We're all about the games"..

Just because battery packs are common doesn't take away the fact that it's inconvenient to carry one around and have one more thing to charge up. I charge my phone every two days, yes. I hardly use it. it still would be an annoyance to plug several device and find various outlets to plug them all at once.

Sorry if I sound aggravated, but I kind of am. I feel like I am talking to a wall.

ejadaddy
Sat Jan 07 17 09:10pm
Rating: 1

No need to apologise. Passion can sometimes come off as aggression. I get it.

The point I'm trying to make is that Nintendo have always been different and have always had a back for doing things differently. I didn't mean that the handle on the cube was a gimmick but just an example of Nintendo's quirkiness. I love the GameCube controller too and it is the best controller I've ever used and I didn't mean it was actually designed around Metroid Prime but Metroid Prime showcased the uniqueness of it within the context of the world and gameplay mechanics of Metroid Prime.

And you're right, I'm a Nintendo Fanboy who owns every other console on the market. Why? Cos I like games in general and like to experience all that's out there.

If games make consoles unique, then I don't see what the problem is regarding Nintendo. They make games you can only play on their console, same as Sony & MS.

Also, what makes a controller "standard" or "modern"?

Going through Nintendo's history, no home console controller has ever been the same between generations. They just don't do it. Looking at the dual shock controllers, little has changed over the years. All they've done is iterative design with little improvements.

By your own admission, the GameCube controller is the best controller you've ever held but I can bet it would have never existed had Nintendo simply indulged in iterative design.

I feel like the Nintendo you're craving for does not exist and probably never has. They just did things that you happened to like at the time and once their decisions started to clash with your tastes, you thought they had changed. Truth is they haven't changed. They are still the same as they ever were.

About the Metroid thing, I see, that makes a lot more sense.

I feel that Nintendo controllers have actually been iterative.

NES: Standark two action butons, start, select, D-pad.
SNES: Demand for more complex games, especially due to PC has made the need for more inputs apparent. Therefore, shoulder buttons were added as well as X and Y buttons, allowing Nintendo to adapt to rising complexity in games.
N64: 3D games became a thing. D-pads don' twork to well in a 3D space. Therefore, the joystick was taken from the Pinztronic series, which was further improved by Sega on their Space Harrier arcade to become self-centering. Nintendo borrowed the idea to adapt to a 3D space. The controller removed a few buttons, likely to make it less complex as users got accustomed to that new dimension.
Gamecube: This is an N64 controller, improved with modern designs in mind. People got accustomed to 3D, thus Nintendo increased the complexity of their controller.

In all events, those controllers evolved, but never morphed into something else entirely. Someone who enjoys any of the controllers above will be at home using any of the other controllers on that list. However, a Wiimote for example completely changes the experience. It is something entirely different from the feel of gaming we are used to, and it stands to reason that it is perfectly likely that some might enjoy gaming on a normal controller but flat out hate the experience of using a Wiimote. To me, the Wiimote is not an evolution, it is a mutation. An ugly one at that. Alternatively, the Sony brand controllers didn't change much because they didn't need to. They had everything they needed. Nintendo also hasn't changed their pro controllers all that much recently. That is because they have evolved to a point where they have more than enough function.

To me, the Gamecube controller is the natural result of the N64 controller, which is the natural result of the SNES controller, which is the natural result of the NES controller.

The Nintendo I am craving for has existed. It has made amazing games like Melee, Super Mario Bros. 3, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Diddy's Kong Quest, etc... This Nintendo has existed and the elements are still there. I just hope they will find their way again and not deliver sub-par games like they have recently.

Nintendo has changed, a lot. Under Iwata's leadership, Nintendo changed directions drastically.

ejadaddy
Sun Jan 08 17 04:07am
Rating: 1

Sony's controllers haven't changed much because Sony don't innovate. They just take what works and stick with it.

Nintendo still make great games. I know I keep going back to Mario galaxy as an example but it's only because of how damn good that game is. It completely changed the idea of what a traditional platformer can be. And even though Paper Mario on the Wii wasn't the Paper Mario people were expecting, it didn't make it a bad game. In fact, it was a great game. Completely different to thousand year door but still great.

I can't wait for the Switch full reveal. Rumours have been coming out thick and fast so it'll be great to hear it from the horse's mouth.

Do let me know your thoughts after the switch presentation.

Sony innovates, what are you talking about?

Dual analogues, rumble built into controllers, first true attempt at a 3D console with PS1, improvements in memory card technology, disjointed D-pad, and while they suck, Playstation Move using camera, Playstation Eye and Vita rear D-pad. Sony innovates plenty. Nintendo doesn't have some sort of monopoly on innovation. Besides, innovation is not always positive either.

Nintendo is a shadow of its former self when it comes to making games. Super Mario Galaxy is half the game Super Mario Sunshine is, and Super Mario 64 is even better, letting you explore levels, be creative.Galaxy would be a fun game if it let you use the controller you want to use. Nintendo has since intervened with Paper Mario and there has not been a good game in the series since the Gamecube days. Mario games have become more and more lacking in scope and ambition, with New Super Mario Bros. feeling uninspired, and Super Mario Bros. 3D World and 3D Land falling short of expectations. Star Fox was spit on during the Wii U days, and so was Metroid for Federation Force. Kirby games have become cookie cutter, slow and boring. Smash Bros tried to hard to appeal to casuals, becoming a boring party brawler that only has merit as a means to pass time.

And the thing is, Nintendo still has the ability to make great games. They merely squander it.

Super Paper Mario is hot garbage. It is not an RPG, and as a platformer, it is mediocre at best. People want The Thousand Year Door 2. They should make The Thousand Year Door 2.

Sure, I will tell you my thoughts.

I think Starfox on the SNESwill have to take the prize for first real attempt at 3D gaming. Sony didn't really innovate but rather took someone else's idea's and incorporated into their product. If I'm correct, the N64 rumble Pak was the inspiration for rumble in Sony's. And let's not forget the Virtual boy. Yes it failed but even as far back as then, you could see what Nintendo was trying to do.

Nintendo brought the d-pad, shoulder buttons, triggers, speakers in controllers. After calling the Wii-mote and motion control a fad, Sony goes and releases their own motion controls. Apart from dual analogues, Sony has brought nothing to the table. Sony seem to do things for the sake of it. That back touchpad on the Vita is the most useless feature I've ever seen on a device.

Paper Mario on Wii was and still is a great game. It's not Thousand year door but it's still great.

And a lot of the games people pine for don't sell well. Metroid has never been a huge seller. And that's why Nintendo had Retro work on Donkey Kong Country Returns on the Wii and that paid off as it sold millions.

And the sad thing is that Federation force is a very good game. It just doesn't have Samus as the main character. It's a Metroid game in every way with a few new innovations (like levels where you have to play zero suit style).

We have very different views on Nintendo but we're both fans and that's what makes our conversations so interesting.

Take care and hit me up after the Switch presentation.

I said "3D console". And Nintendo also steals ideas ALL OF THE TIME.

Analogue sticks, stolen from Atari and Sega when it comes to self-centering ones. Rumble was stolen from arcades, Virtual Boy took inspiration from toys that did the same prior.

D-pad, shoulder buttons, triggers, are all evolutions, not innovations. I'm actually sure that triggers were brought by Microsoft if we only count the main 3. Otherwise, PC and arcades did it way before. Sega also did it before Nintendo.

Let us redefine our terms again:

Innovation: A change meant to GRAB ATTENTION.
Evolution: A change meant to address issues or improve user experience.

The things you call innovations are evolutions for the most part. All of these were not even advertised. They were just there to adapt to more complex games and 3D.

Now, for Move... Sure, it was inspired by the Wiimote, but it uses completely different tech. It sucks, like the Wiimote, but the Wiimote doe snot use cameras. It is an innovation because it was meant to grab "attention". "Look! We can do this too!". Again, innovation can be bad.

"That back touchpad on the Vita is the most useless feature I've ever seen on a device."

To me, it was motion cotnrols, then 3D, then second screens on home devices.

We'll have to disagree on Super Paper Mario, because it was terrible for me.

Metroid may not sell well, but it reaches a demographic that Mario, Zelda and Pokémon do not. By having a variety of game son a console, you attract a wider variety of gamers, and then their buying habits will bleed out onto other franchises. If you keep only making the same games, you always go for the same very specific demographics. You never grow.

Federation Force is barebones and boring, like Triforce Heroes. I want to play alone, not be forced to go online and rely on very annoying children not knowing how to solve the puzzle and trying to shove me into the poor decision. If we could communicate through voice chat, I could direct them to the right solution.

I've spent literal hours on one puzzle in Triforce Heroes because the two kids couldn't understand that they had to totem up and shout a switch. The arrow guy kept trying to grab me. When I finally got him RIGHT IN FRONT of the switch, he did not shoot. I quit that game eventually.

Hahaha I can just imagine how frustrating it must have been playing Triforce heroes with kids who don't know what they're doing. I'm blessed with friends, nephews and nieces who game just as hard as I do.

I loved Thousand year door and even though Paper Mario Wii was different, it was a good game. The way it used the paper mechanic and the 3D/2D to change the POV was very intelligent.

Anyway, I hope the Switch presentation will give you what you're asking for.

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