Login

SEGA doesn't want to "step the franchise back" to make Sonic Adventure 3 "just to make people happy"

Coming from a Polygon interview with Sonic Team head Takashi Iizuka...

“I hear people saying that they want Adventure 3, but the path that we’re on and ... Adventure 3, what fans want that to be, might not be an advancement of the series. So I don’t want to do an Adventure 3 and step the franchise back just to give the fans what they want. From the developer standpoint, every Sonic game that we’re making is taking new steps and advances, furthering the game in a new direction, and that’s dictated where the Sonic series has been going. If we can get the gameplay to evolve and get to a place where Adventure 3 makes sense, then you might see an Adventure 3 come out, but we don’t want to take the entire series back to where it was just to make people happy. We want to advance the idea of what a Sonic game is.”

I mean, I don't even know what to say about this. It seems like such a stubborn approach to the franchise. To outright say something like this surprises me. I guess that's why we got Sonic Mania? A little something for fans who wanted classic Sonic, while Sonic Team continues to take Sonic's 3D outings in whatever direction they want?

Comments

Top Rated Comment
necrochild313
Tue Sep 19 17 01:24pm
Rating: 10

"...every Sonic game that we’re making is taking new steps and advances, furthering the game in a new direction, and that’s dictated where the Sonic series has been going."

Down the toilet?

magypsy
Tue Sep 19 17 01:20pm
Rating: 2

As someone who loves Adventure, I admit that the games have not aged well and a lot of what makes it good is pure nostalgia.

nightsowl
Tue Sep 19 17 01:24pm
Rating: 2

As someone who loved those games growing up, I still find them fun. I also don't believe in "aging games".

If a game was fun, it can still be just as fun. And I still have fun with them. They're solid 7/10's in my book.

This however still doesn't really say anything about the content of the article. You could easily make a SA3 and make it good by todays standards. Like the opinion in the post says, it's a stubborn way to look at things, ALA not making a true 2D sonic game until Mania.

What usually happens to me is struggling when returning to a previous iterations in a game franchise, and readjusting to controls and aspects fixed in subsequent sequels. For example. I played Dino Crisis 2 first, so I wanted to play the first, oh man, wasn't expecting it to be a Resident Evil ripoff, it had some moments but I think the style of the second was were it find it's legs. Also Megaman, the first one is very hard, and missing jumps feels harsh.

Also a matter of preference and convenience, I do like the Metroid Trilogy and I imagine, feeling more restrictive if I replayed it with the Gamecube controller.

moldyclay
Tue Sep 19 17 01:43pm
Rating: 1

The keyword there is "can" still be fun, and the reasons may change.

I had fun as a kid because I thought they were fun. As an adult, I had fun because they are glitchy messes where you go all over the place and the story/acting is laughably bad. The level designs for most stages are terrible and gameplay for some characters are even worse.

Games absolutely age, but two things keep them good:
1. They actually are an amazing game and hold up really well.
2. Nostalgia clouding the flaws.

I think this response from Sega is in regards to making an archaic SA3, using the classic gameplay which is a huge step back and isn't as easy to perfect as a 2D Sonic they have a good engine for. They could do a "modernization", but would it be the SA3 that fans wanted? Probably not.

Case in point: Sonic 4 vs. Sonic Mania.

nightsowl
Tue Sep 19 17 01:51pm
Rating: 3

Just gonna say I largely disagree with a lot of what you said. I'm not saying they don't have their glitches, but it's not like they're unplayable. The actual gameplay is still fun and I'll stand by that. As a kid I had fun, and as an adult I have fun. I don't "Go all over the place" or anything of the sort. I always feel in control of my character. -shrug- You can say it's nostalgia talking, but I don't exactly feel Nostalgic playing any game from my childhood because I tend to replay them all the time, giving no real room for "Nostalgia" to form.

groose
Wed Sep 20 17 04:30am
Rating: 1

"I also don't believe in "aging games".

I wish more people thought like you. Nothing burns me up more than when I hear people call an old game that I like (not necessarily one I grew up with) "outdated". Solid gameplay principles don't age.

I'm with you. Good design is good design no matter the age. Games don't get worse because newer games are better. If the original game is good, you don't down-rank it because the next game is better, you call the next game great instead of good.

necrochild313
Tue Sep 19 17 01:24pm
Rating: 10

"...every Sonic game that we’re making is taking new steps and advances, furthering the game in a new direction, and that’s dictated where the Sonic series has been going."

Down the toilet?

God forbid they make something that makes fans happy.

moldyclay
Tue Sep 19 17 01:35pm
Rating: 3

Except they did.

Adventure 1 & 2 did not age spectacularly and a 3rd game designed like them would not be great. In fact, Sonic 2006 WAS a 3rd game like them and everyone hates it. So to want Adventure 3 is to basically want a new Sonic 06.

I believe this answer is under the assumption fans want Adventure 3 in the style of the Dreamcast games, and that would only really work if it is self referential and plays up the fact it is a weird mess of ideas.

I don't think the idea of a modern SA3 crossed his mind, nor do I even know what people think that should be.

rustyowl
Tue Sep 19 17 07:56pm
Rating: 3

Drawing a false equivalency between Sonic 06 and the dream of a Sonic Adventure 3 is a dirty, dishonest, and monstrous over-generalization.

This is coming from someone who doesn't even really like the Adventure games. I am absolutely stunned to have just read that.

And who is really asking for a dated Dreamcast game? Of course everyone wants a modern take, in the same way that everyone wanted Banjo-Threeie on the Gamecube back in the day, not the N64. Let's be real here and not insult straw men with this air of dismissing the passion of these fans as misguided.

ice
Tue Sep 19 17 01:30pm
Rating: 2

This is a respectable decision, games like Colors and Generations age better in the pure gameplay department.

I have a softer spot for the Adventure games than most, but the closest thing / last time we got something like them from Sonic Team was '06.

I am pretty okay with never getting another game like that again.

"every Sonic game that we’re making is taking new steps"

we know, that's the problem.

freezair
Tue Sep 19 17 01:36pm
Rating: 4

Really, I don't care if we get an Adventure 3; I just want a Chao Garden 3.

...Just me?

I wasted SOOOO much time in that for SA:2 Battle on GameCube back in the day!

winter
Tue Sep 19 17 01:41pm
Rating: 1

Not really sure why it matters. I mean, what would Adventure 3 have that any other 3D Sonic couldn't? It's like asking for a Mario 64 sequel.

(Besides, we kinda have Adventure 3 already, it's called Sonic 06.)

I dont care for a Sonic Adventure 3, but i would like a game with only the sonic gameplay style, that controls good and in HD, just try it again in a smaller title like a sonic rush series, i mean they have better programmers that in 2006....i think....hope......

Tue Sep 19 17 02:34pm
(Updated 1 time)

Sonic Adventure 3 IS Sonic Next Gen. The people who constantly love to beg and whine about it to Sega love to forget that. (and trust me, I've seen them do it since Sonic Generations was brand new.) They won't shut up and it drives me insane!

The only things about the adventure games I still like is the entirety of the first one, (except DX mission mode and the chao garden) the second game's multiplayer battle mode and the chao gardens, and most importantly, the controls. (The control scheme in Sonic Generations was just abhorrent when I tried it out this year, and even when I took my time I would slip off edges as modern sonic constantly or struggle to stop on a dime as classic sonic, and oddly enough he controlled better both ways in the boring as sin 3DS version.) They felt ultra tight and perfect which was weird considering how boring parts of Adventure 2 were anyway, yet they still knew to keep the controls tight. (the biggest upset to me was having Tails, my favorite Adventure 1 character stuck in a mech that bored me to death as his stages weren't as fun as Eggman's.)

That being said, I can't help but think that they're kinda being hypocrites since Forces is pretty much made in the similar style of Sonic Generations instead of going for something more tight and fun like Sonic Lost World. I still need to get that game when I am finally allowed to buy a PC. (I'm not buying the Wii U version at this point in time and I couldn't stand the 3DS demo) They also let Sonic Mania exist but that game was mostly great save for one zone and Blue Sphere so that's something I'll gladly have more of

lokamp
Tue Sep 19 17 02:35pm
(Updated 2 times)

Yet 10-or-so years ago they rushed a sorta-like-Adventure-y game to the stores. Thanks for releasing something so bad that people are obnoxiously calling it by its release year non-stop, Sonic Team!

I get why SEGA wants to try to innovate with Sonic and people forget that there are a lot of Sonic games that have uniqueness in them and are actually good games.

Like Sonic CD, The advance trilogy, the rush series, Colors, Lost World..I can go on here. All these are really good games particularly CD.

But The problem is that SEGA isn't able to maintain the formula as much as they want to. A lot of the 3D games have horrible controls save the adventure games and this is one of the reasons why I don't see myself playing Sonic Heroes.

Well Sonic Unleashed is called Sonic World Adventure in Japan

windsorg
Tue Sep 19 17 02:59pm
Rating: 1 (Updated 2 times)

Sorry, I've gotta be harsh here.

SEGA is great at making people happy. That's what hiring Christian Whitehead and crew to make a brand new Genesis era Sonic game is. It's about making the right people happy, and those are the people whose desires push the franchise back into a positive light, not further down the drain. Look at these happy people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98eoSTr8ips

The happy ones have been with the series before the dark ages brought on by the Dreamcast. The Sonic Adventure games aren't flawed classics like Half Life or Ocarina of Time. they aren't rough around the edges like Mega Man Legends or Crash Bandicoot. They are fundamentally broken games barely above the likes of Ultima IX or Daikatana. The games from this era float entirely on nostalgia, proven by the unanimously negative reception to more recent Sonic games that share the same problems.

Sonic Adventure 3 makes as much sense as Mega Man X7-2. The idea of what a Sonic game is in 3D has fundamentally changed. If they made another one it would, and frankly, should, look and play like the Sonic Utopia fan project. That's much closer to what Sonic is and what the majority of the player base wants to see from the franchise. Making the game good by modern standards would make it Sonic Adventure no longer. People wouldn't respond to levels created that way or stories told in that manner. Tasted have changed and that era is over.

Dark and edgy Sonic clones riding motorcycles and sneering with loaded firearms played against hard rock cringe-lyrics is over. Bat cleavage is over. Animals kissing human women is over. Convoluted plots and nonsensical character motivations are over. This comment solidifies that SEGA is not keen on revisiting the exact elements that tanked Sonic's reputation as a character, as a brand, and as a franchise, and nobody should blame them.

That said, Sonic Adventure 3 does exist. It's Sonic the Hedgehog on 360 and PS3. Pretending it isn't is like pretending Mega Man Star Force isn't, for all intents and purposes, Mega Man Battle Network 7. Every element is still here. Nothing changed. There wasn't even a significant amount of time between the games. Sonic 06 could have been called Adventure 3 and no one would have skipped a beat.

Sonic Adventure 4 exists, come to think of it. That one's called Sonic Boom on Wii U. Broken set pieces, loops that take your controls and still manage to fail, voice acting as horrible as the dialogue, animations as awful as the controls, game flow as choppy as the level design, it's all there. BigRedButton even described their process as "getting back to the Sonic Adventure feel", so I can only imagine making it garbage was an intentional design choice.

The gameplay and style you remember from Sonic Adventure does not need to come back, but Sega isn't just ignoring people either. Chaos and Shadow are back for Sonic Forces and a playable Shadow segment was literally just announced. Levels based on the games you enjoyed were present in Generations. They aren't pretending you don't exist or that your favorite games aren't worth anything. They're just focused on making good products again.

ddark
Tue Sep 19 17 03:51pm
Rating: 1

I have to pretty much agree with this.

sgtfly
Wed Sep 20 17 02:49pm
(Updated 1 time)

"fundamentally broken" I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about. I've played both games very recently and they're still a blast to play.

Come on. Yes you do.

Only in the Adventure games are we constantly clipping out of bounds and watching scripted sequences fail while broken mechanics cost you lives and undo progress. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 have utterly nonfunctional physics and the levels are based entirely around them. Moving too fast as Sonic pushes him through solid objects, climbing as Knuckles will easily clip him through walls, the camera is one of the least friendly I've ever struggled with and the game crashes on me frequently. You can't tell me you've never experienced any of this. Everyone has. This is playing on original Dreamcast hardware as the game was meant to be played. No emulations, no re-releases, though in my experience those aren't any more stable. I take very good care of my games so I can't even blame the crashes on a beat up disc.

Sonic Adventure 1 has great atmosphere and when it functions properly for a stretch of time it can be fun to play in the better designed levels. I completely understand why people continue to like and enjoy them but we must stop ignoring problems in older games. No other big releases at the time suffered from these problems. It's not that they're old, it's that they're broken. Being the face of an exciting console launch and being Sonic meant the game was forgiven for these issues when they should not have been. The Gamecube re-releases were reviewed far less positively because people weren't seeing "shiny" and "new" anymore. They were looking at it as they would any other game. Sonic 4 is despised for more minor and far less frequent physics issues while these games got a free pass.

"More fun and more interesting than Colors-style tripe" is entirely subjective and we disagree there. The current vision of what a 3D Sonic game is is much closer to what Sonic has always been about. No hub worlds, no human characters, no modern cities, no edgy side characters, no melodramatic angst plots, no scripted sequences and a focus on fast paced action platforming in a three dimensional space that you can actually control.

sgtfly
Wed Sep 20 17 08:23pm
(Updated 1 time)

I really have no idea what you're talking about, i have like 100 hours in sa2 and it's always worked fine, and I got all those hours in like last year. A little rough around the edges but nothing like what you're describing. Just gotta agree to disagree i guess but it's crazy weird that we had such vastly different experiences with the same game

Basically SEGA even admits that the Adventure series wasn't that good.

Guess its just much easier to make people unhappy SEGA.

3D sonic never really worked and evenm 2D Sonics gameplay is inherently flawed.I like it, kinda, but admit its not as good as other jump n runs.

That's like saying that Mario Odyssey is a step back because it's more like Mario 64 than Galaxy 1/2 or Mario 3D Land/World...

kolma
Tue Sep 19 17 03:38pm
Rating: 1

I guess it makes sense. While people love Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 (myself included) It really wouldn't be a good game now a days. Nostalgia and love for Sonic himself is a huge driving point.

That said... Just make the F-ing game Sega and shut people up. Most of us really just want Chao Garden to be a thing again.

So I don’t want to do an Adventure 3 and step the franchise back just to give the fans what they want

That's literally what you JUST did with Mania and even Forces to an extent...

From the developer standpoint, every Sonic game that we’re making is taking new steps and advances, furthering the game in a new direction, and that’s dictated where the Sonic series has been going.

That's the problem you've fractured the gameplay style as well as the fanbase soo many times because of this. Classic gameplay, Adventure gameplay, Heroes gameplay, Boost gameplay, Werehog gameplay, Lost World gameplay, Boom gameplay.

but we don’t want to take the entire series back to where it was just to make people happy.

We know which is why you had headcanon and christian whitehead do it because Sonic team you don't know how to make people happy anymore.

All this being said I love Mania and am buying Forces day one but ugh just had to say something. lol

sonicandm2
Tue Sep 19 17 06:04pm
Rating: 1

Alot of people want a Sonic Adventure styled game because they enjoy having more control when playing compared to the very straightforward level design and control that's present often in the boost games.

Also, he talks about advancing the Sonic series? That's some real BS. The level design in Forces is actually pretty terrible when you look at it, especially compared to Sonic Generations', which came out 6 years ago! Just look at Shadow's trailer revealed today and compare it to literally any Sonic Generations level and Generations looks 10x better.

While Generations proved that Boost gameplay has some potential, people will always prefer Sonic Adventure's style of Sonic gameplay, or something like the fangame Sonic Utopia, and that's not because that style of gameplay is a step backwards, it's just a matter of preference.

so weird they did make a number of 3d platformer so adventure 3 is one of them

Every 3D game after 2 has basically been Sonic Adventure. calling something Sonic Adventure 3 isn't going to make something that a fan thinks they want.

SA2 is one of my favorite games ever and Colors is one of the worst games I've ever played and has become the new standard for Sonic. Yea I'm pretty not happy with the direction Sega's been taking with this series

While I loved SA2 back in the day as a kid playing it now it's pretty bad that being said finally someone I agree with about Colors. I don't understand why that game is loved as much as it is. The wisps slow down the gameplay tremendously (hate the fact that they've appeared in EVERY game since), a lot of the acts are boring as hell, Sonic's jump feels way off, wayyy too much 2D for a 3D game, the story is weak, the humor is cringe (besides a few Eggman PA lines). I think that game is VERY overrated and the only thing that game has going for me is the graphics, voice acting, and music.

I wouldn't mind remakes of these games that fixed the issues that were there before. The underlying mechanics and level designs were solid for the most part in my opinion (with the exception of the Knuckles/Rouge levels and Big the Cat). If they tweaked the camera, controls, gave more action-oriented levels to Knuckles and Rouge while making the treasure hunt a side quest, and ironed out some of the glitches to go along with a graphical upgrade, I would buy those games. The way that I barely pushed the analog stick in any direction and still go into a full sprint was the bothersome aspect of those games in my opinion.

Want to join this discussion?

You should like, totally log in or sign up!