Paper Mario: The Origami King producer believes it's a "necessity" to change the battle system with each installment

New and different at any cost

Recent Paper Mario games have implemented new tweaks and changes to the battle system, making for a unique experience each time around. This isn't just by accident either. In an interview with PCGames, producer Kensuke Tanabe says he finds this approach a necessity.

“Striving to find new and innovative systems is the foundation of the philosophy my team and I are following when developing games. As such, I think it’s a necessity that the combat system changes in every game.”


Top Rated Comment
Sat Aug 08 20 05:22pm
Rating: 9

I don't want a straight-up copy of Thousand Year Door. I want a good game. The games of the new PM trilogy are mediocre at best. You can't even blame the mandate Nintendo has for the series, because nothing but Tanabe's ego is preventing him from making the gameplay good.

Is it really, though? I mean, I don't mind changing things up from time to time, but is it REALLY necessary to reinvent the wheel with every game?

They really shouldn't. Refining a system that works well would be better than constantly swapping in a new system, especially a system that didn't have a ton of user complaints to begin with.

I hoped Origami King was a refinement to the classic battle system, but they went too far where solving the puzzle generally gives you one turn kills and changing the enemies so that your choices are based purely on enemy placement and not on enemy type

I actually liked the look of the Origami King Battle system at first, it had some great potentional but then fell on its face hard. From what I here it's pretty tedious and becomes a chore after awhile.

I was really hoping for partner attacks that takes advantage of the ring system. Like a Koopa will attack in a straight line, while a magikoopa could attack all enemies in the middle circle, a bombomb blast that effects enemies standing in a cross pattern, etc

It looks like we'll never get Paper Mario back though. Hopefully there will be a new Mario and Luigi game or a brand new Mario RPG series

Sat Aug 08 20 02:51pm
Rating: 1

No it isn't. And even if it were, you've made that DS Tingle game four times essentially.

Im counting down the days until Kensuke Tanabe retires..

Are Paper Mario fans the worst sub-set of toxic Nintendo fans? Asking for a friend...

They’re like the Starwars fans who hate everything that isn’t the original trilogy just with Thousand Year Door instead...

Sat Aug 08 20 05:22pm
Rating: 9

I don't want a straight-up copy of Thousand Year Door. I want a good game. The games of the new PM trilogy are mediocre at best. You can't even blame the mandate Nintendo has for the series, because nothing but Tanabe's ego is preventing him from making the gameplay good.

because nothing but Tanabe's ego is preventing him from making the gameplay good.

Why there’s a rational argument if ever I saw one. /s
Thanks for proving my original point.

Btw - I accidentally upvoted your comment trying to his the reply button Smile

You know, there are many cases where the original is the best. I know many fans often dislike change, and some dislike it just for the fact that it is change, but there are also times where the change in question is bad because of what changed. That is certainly the case for Sticker Star, and they've never undone the change many fans don't like.

Sat Aug 08 20 05:26pm
(Updated 1 time)

The Zelda cycle invaded Paper Mario. Nevermind the Zelda development mentality has spread in other areas of Nintendo because Nintendo has seen selling the same games doesn't jive long term.

Zelda: Ocarina of Time: Before BotW broke the streak, OoT was considered the crown jewel of the Zelda franchise. People constantly wished for more OoT.

Majora's Mask: Recycled many assets from OoT, but had an original story. The game was panned until it became a cult classic later.

Wind Waker: Went with a completely different, non OoT art style. The game was panned until it became a cult classic later.

Twilight Princess: Was panned for being too much like Ocarina of Time. The game became a cult classic later.

Skyward Sword: Was panned for not being like OoT and having waggle. The game became a cult classic later.

People don't seem to realize if Paper Mario: The Origami King went back to the style of the first two games, critics and players alike would pan the game for doing nothing different from the first two games.

EDIT - Ninja'd. Was replying to Seansneachta.

I don't know, man. I see a lot of people give really good criticisms of Twilight Princess and especially Skyward Sword. I generally consider SS to be the worst 3D Zelda, even ignoring waggle. Wind Waker also gets a lot of deserved criticism even today, even after the remake. I've said this before and will say it again, I think if PM went back to the style of the first two games and stayed there, people would cheer. Do realize that there's basically an entire genre of PM/TTYD clones made by indie developers now, that's how badly people want it.

You can trash classic Paper Mario fans if you want but don't just make shit up. No one's asking for just TTYD again. Super Paper Mario was probably a bigger departure from the originals than even the Sticker Star styled games and it's considered a beloved classic like the first two games.

oh c'mon. First of all, different does not always mean good ffs, get that mentality out of here. Many cases where there are drastic changes and the end result is still widely beloved. And many cases where they screw up and its hated, all in perfectly reasonable ways. Maybe if you stopped acting like pic-related and took the time to listen to the criticism you'd learn something.

You realise I never even gave my opinion on the game, so I don’t know where you got I think different means good.

All I did was make a comment that the Paper Mario “fans” are always unhappy with the latest iteration. Yet the games continue to sell well enough for a next instalment. Why are the same people buying the game they dislike so much...after being apparently burned my previous games? Seems kinda dumb to me.

My point was pretty much proven by someone thinking the producers ego is somehow to blame. It was very apt considering my Star Wars comparison. People said the same about George Lucas’ ego for the prequels. And others wanting the producer to retire.

Anyways, I can’t wait for Metroid Prime 4 and for that same ego to shine before he retires.

As a huge huge huge fan of the first two games, and someone who hates the direction the series has taken, I decided to give Origami King a chance, just to be fair, and yeah the battle system is awful. At first it's fun but since you gain nothing but coins and confetti from the battles it becomes tedious and pointless FAST, especially considering the game throws confetti at you as well as coins every five steps. Plus some of those puzzles are hard, like really really hard, and I dont want to do that every single time a enemy bumps into me. None of this is to mention the breakable items, which unlike in BOTW, actually suck here. In past Paper Marios you'd gain upgrades from either finding them or progressing the story, and they were permanent, in this game even the ones you find and can't really buy AFAIK still break which incentivizes players to not use them for anything but a boss, which is just poor design. A somewhat reasonable compromise would be to have stronger weapons consume confetti, but no they just break.

Really I dont see what was wrong with TTYDs system, it was perfect, the system doesn't need to change every single time.

And that's why its "necessary" to not buy this game anymore.

sonic guy00
Sat Aug 08 20 09:37pm
Rating: 1

If thats what they think lol what do I know, im just a consumer.

Miss me with this lame ish tho. Last PM game I bought was sticker star and I stopped playing just after the bowser minion amusement park.

Honestly most of nintendos games have been lack luster in quality lately, in my opinion.

BoTWs over world music? Wack.
The way every update for animal crossing is just "oh another new leaf feature, nice." Wack.
The way the PM battle system looks ridiculous and looks like it plays terrible? Wack.
The way Super Mario Party... Bro just that game is: Wack
The way they ported Mario kart 8 and didnt add anything substantial to justify the price tag? Wack.
So lazy making NSMB they just made fans make the levels instead? Kinda tight, love the creativity.
The fact that its 2020 and Nintendo wants to do tournaments online but refuses to do proper server support? Wack.

Ive been a nintendo fan since my step dad let me borrow his game boy, and, in my own opinion of course, the quality of the content and the quantity of the content has dropped.

All my own opinion of course, I kinda just took this oportunity to whine, so my apologies. I used to get so excited and would buy games from nintendo day one but either im becoming a crusty old man who is nostalgic for the past or im out growing nintendo. My switch collection is just becoming 3rd party games.

On a positive note, im looking forward to that pokemon MOBA! I'd be excited for more but nintendo doesnt want to reveal anything else :')

Sat Aug 08 20 09:54pm
Rating: 1 (Updated 1 time)

nah I'm totally with you, as a kid and teenager Nintendo games were my life but around 2010 or so they seriously lost it, the best games they've put out since then have only been like 7/10s, it used to be that they'd put out instant clasic after instant classic

Well i mean I bought every system after the DS day 1 (the DSI era was when I was old enough to work and start wasting money on hobbies like that) and ive enjoyed most games they put out. Even the wii u i bought day one and looooooved nintendo land. If switch gets a pro model, I'll be on that day 1 too! But the software..... I mean if money wasnt an issue id get every nintendo game just to try it and see if theyre any good, but when so many other games are coming out that have seemingly more content and replayability so thats where my money goes. 3rd party on the go games is why i love the switch but BoTW is the only first party title i still have for my switch, everything else has been traded off for longer, funner games.

This is all just my own opinion of course haha

I laughed pretty hard at this post. I kinda agree with you to an extent. A lot of Nintendo's most recent software has disappointed me in some way. They still are fun and Nintendo's games still give me more enjoyment than others but quite a few Wii U/3DS/Switch releases IMO have been kinda lazy, repetitive, half-baked, or just downright mediocre.

Nintendo has only made a few games these past gens that stand shoulder to shoulder with the likes of Mario World, Ocarina of Time, Link to the Past, Kirby Super Star, Mario 64, DKC, DKC2, Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Bros. 3, Star Fox 64, Super Metroid, Metroid Prime, and other classics IMO. Those releases IMO are BOTW, Tropical Freeze, Link Between Worlds, Splatoon 2, New Leaf, Smash Bros. Ultimate, Fire Emblem Awakening, and Fire Emblem Three Houses.

Where as a bunch of Switch software despite sales records have mostly disappointed me in many ways.


Yes bro you read my mind!!!! I wanted to say all that but felt i had rambled long enough haha the Kirby games were so good on the game boy advance and I expected so much more from Yoshis crafted nonsense. I keep trying to play animal crossing, but now that i consider myself "done" with editing my village/island, i log in for 5 mins to talk with the amnimal homies and scope out the special visitor. Oh and shopping! Aside from that its just... Boring. I miss working for brewster man, the only fair boss ive had in my life haha but man the Links Awakening for $60... I cant believe i bought that at thag price even though I have it on the 3ds thanks to the virtual console.

Speaking of, where is that??

And I agree Mario Odyssey was super overrated, the moons are neat and its cute how you basically can just stumble upon them, but the worlds feel so barren in some spots, or too small if theyre detailed.

Idk man, its all just my opinion tho. Totes agree with all you said!

Sun Aug 09 20 11:17am
Rating: 1

I think last years briefing they usually have in march was kinda telling how they see the future back then. Release less games, and let dlc and updates take the role of new releases. Never once thought when i read that back then that we would have game droughts that beat the final year of the wii u, but here we are, looks like they dont see any point in releasing games unless its holiday, since thats when they make the most money.

Another quote also comes to mind, something along the line of "when its going good, sit in the boat and hold your cards (games) tight, and then when you need momentum, you'll use some of them(release games).

Right, true. I would be elated if they dropped more dlc for Mario Kart to give it SOMETHING new aside from labo support. Id pay for the game and the dlc cause, i mean, its Mario Kart haha but crash team racing dropped at 40 and already had more content than mario Kart, and they kept updating CTR every month for the grand prix, adding in more cars, drivers, stages, all for frew!

Heck i would pay for animal crossing dlc for previous characters that got removed (bow and meow come to mind first, they look tight) even if it was like $1 to get furniture like the alpinist series, roccoco, sleek, etc. I mean itd be unfair and I would whine on these gonintendo articles but i would pay a dollar each just to get them in the catalogue. Its just mind blowing how little content there is in their recent games, especially compared to Smash Bros which has most of its previous entries content. I understand Sora isnt exactly a Nintendo developer (technically bandai, i think? Could be wrong, if so please forgive) but, in my opinion of course, I realise im the minority here, i think the wii u version was funner. I still play smash but not as much or as hard as I played the Smash U.

I totally forgot pokemon snap was coming back so I'm excited about that too lol im trying to keep it kinda positive haha

Most of the praise I’ve heard for Origami King is for the writing while the battle system is merely tolerated. Sounds like a game that is more style than substance.

I admit to chuckling a bit at one joke I saw in the gameplay footage they released a while back where two Koopa Troopas basically poked fun at their own patterns in older Mario games. That sort of self-referential humor gets me every time, especially when it comes out of nowhere. Just wish the gameplay could match that.

Well at least that's something. I've played more than a few games with ok-ish gameplay but the overall experience was positive because of the engaging story/writing. It's a little odd this time because usually Nintendo gets the gameplay spot on and skimps on the story. Seems like everyone likes PMOK's writing but the gameplay is mediocre.

I don't know who's toxic here? The Paper Mario Fans or the Sonic fans?

If they haven't liked a Paper Mario since thousand year door I wouldn't call them fans of Paper Mario anymore, just fans of Thousand Year Door.


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