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Ping 1.5+ dev defends Wii U dev kit after Eurogamer article, puts the call out to third parties to step up


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12 Jan 2014 19:48

Problem is the damage has been done from the article.
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12 Jan 2014 19:48

I'm starting to think that the argument we always hear, that 3rd parties don't develop for Nintendo because they don't make money, a purely rational business argument that I accept--I'm starting to think that it works the other way too. Nintendo is in business to make money for Nintendo, and if 3rd parties don't help them do that, then there's no reason Nintendo should cort them. Nintendo works as hard as anyone to make great games, and THQ is an excellent example of a publisher that didn't. With them, Vigil Games is an excellent example of how lazy some 3rd parties are. Nothing about Darksiders looked like it made the PS3 work, so when I hear them complain about Wii U (an interview on dromble.com), I can only conclude they want as much power as possible to save them the effort. The Wii U can handle most of what developers will be throwing at PS4 and the Bone; what it can't handle will be limited to effects which don't affect gameplay, or to gameplay which is unnecessary--it doesn't matter, for instance, if the PS4 can handle twice as many NPCs if it's more than gamers can actually handle, or if it can render graphics quicker if gamers can't physically notice. Last generation had too many exampleas of 3rd parties obviously trying less hard on Wii for me not to agree that both Nintendo and 3rd parties are accountable.
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12 Jan 2014 19:57

t27duck wrote:Problem is the damage has been done from the article.


Honestly though if enough developers call out the article on being BS then people will listen. You'll also have to remind me, just how widespread are YOU talking anyway? (and something like /v/ really doesn't count for me) I also can't help but ask this... every time I see you around on this site it's always to be really negative to the point of making it seem like you have a strong dislike towards Nintendo as a whole, making me wonder: why exactly are you a head moderator on a Nintendo fansite? You sound like you'd be happier on a site dedicated to non-Nintendo subject matter.
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12 Jan 2014 20:00

Phantastic wrote:biggest gripe i had with the original article was how the Nintendo people didn't even know how PSN and xbox live function. That's pretty embarrassing. Even if it is not true it is a reminder of how bad Nintendo's handling of online is. It still is and its 2014 now.


I find this bizarre when Dan Adelman was part of the ORIGINAL XBLA TEAM!
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12 Jan 2014 20:00

@Eternal Rain It's a tough-love relationship with Nintendo. I want them to succeed, but coming at this from a technical side of things, I can't help but shake my head at some of the bone-headed decisions they've made in the past few console generations.

Also, I don't moderate. I'm just the guy that wrote the site and keeps it running.
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12 Jan 2014 20:10

t27duck wrote:@Eternal Rain It's a tough-love relationship with Nintendo. I want them to succeed, but coming at this from a technical side of things, I can't help but shake my head at some of the bone-headed decisions they've made in the past few console generations.

Also, I don't moderate. I'm just the guy that wrote the site and keeps it running.


Ah my mistake. I noticed you're not listed under the site staff as something more specific (well actually you're not listed under staff at all) so I thought you were a mod just going by the special colored name similar to Cort.

And okay I see what you mean, it's just I rarely ever see you leaving positive comments on anything so I kinda got a wrong impression of "if this guy dislikes Nintendo so much then why did RMC hire him for a Nintendo centered website?" (since that'd be like me taking up a construction job even though I don't care much for heavy physical labor).

But anyway honestly I said before that if enough people call out something for being BS then people will listen, and I can't say the Eurogamer article was all THAT wide spread since I honestly never saw it pop up on the sites I tend to frequent (and the reason I don't count /v/ is because 4chan in general is a site that thrives on negativity, them latching onto something like this as 100% fact wouldn't surprise me in the least). And of course add what I said before that I'm always a bit skeptical about articles where the "source" is anonymous, thus making it so that it's hard to find out if what they're saying is true.
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12 Jan 2014 20:12

t27duck wrote:Problem is the damage has been done from the article.


Not really; most news sites seem to be unaware it even exists and even message boards got bored with it pretty quickly after realizing how stupid it was. It'll just be filed under a flash in the pan and be forgotten in a week.
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12 Jan 2014 20:18

Eternal Rain wrote:I have at least two issues with the original article in question as well:

1) As pointed out here, it was an early dev kit, of course things will change. I bet you it was the same with the PS4, Xbone, and other previous gen systems (I may even be wrong about this, but wasn't it said somewhere that at least one older console supposedly had MORE power to it in early kits that got downgraded for the final kit?). The main thing is how well you can adapt to the changes.
.


I can guarantee you ps4/xBone suffered from the same problem... In fact we know of it already when you parse all the articles pertaining to resolution gate..... Games are being released at 900p with a patch to come later to make it run in 1080p.... There you go, that's a situation where the development tools (sdk) isn't quite up to snuff and as that improves, devs will be able to make a game that ships mostly ready (let's be honest 3rd party's track record on releasing buggy software is legendary)

The article is centered around the launch of the console so it doesn't apply anymore. But the fan boys are going to use it to bash Nintendo as if it still applies...... Building a console and getting it ready to release on a deadline is tough, and lots of changes are constantly being made to the hardware where not even the company can say what the final revision is going to be until literally months before launch....

Any dev that is making a game ready for a console launch has limited tools and documentation with a strong possibility that the hardware will change before their game is even ready. It's why 80% of launch software is shoddy.

This article is strictly to troll Nintendo fans and to increase click throughs and feed ammunition for the console wars. We will be seeing Microsoft and Sony fanboys point back to this article for years to come.

Nintendo is just going to have to wow people with their software over the next few years. They have the talent and the creativity. All this other stuff is just noise to me. The Wii U will be my main gaming system with my Steam machine as my secondary and my ps3 is going to do what it did 99% of the time last gen.... And that's playing blurays.
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12 Jan 2014 20:19

@Aiddon It got linked to on a Kutaku article. So the lowest of the lows (gawker network) is aware of it.

@Eternal Rain Yeah, I've been meaning to put myself on the staff page. Pretty much anyone with a red username has "god mode" over the site (cort, RMC, myself). And like I said, it's a tough-love relationship I have with Nintendo. Hell, I'm trying to push my way through a 100% in 3D World right now, and while I know it's a great game and I do not regret my purchase of the console, I know from not only seeing how the competition has their systems set up but also knowing what modern technology is capable of from a software and hardware standpoint, there is a part of me that knows the Wii U could've been so much more... (and yes, I realize that was probably a very long run-on sentence).
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12 Jan 2014 20:19

Aiddon wrote:
t27duck wrote:Problem is the damage has been done from the article.


Not really; most news sites seem to be unaware it even exists and even message boards got bored with it pretty quickly after realizing how stupid it was. It'll just be filed under a flash in the pan and be forgotten in a week.


That reminds me of a thing I like to call "internet time." Certain things, unless insanely huge, are often "forgotten", or at least become a footnote, pretty quickly around the web. For example: remember the Harlem Shake? If you do then at least you probably remember it as "that thing that tried to be the next Gangnam Style but failed" (the guy who accidentally started that fad even later said he got sick of it fast). Most people will likely remember 2013's big viral sensation to be "What Does the Fox Say?"

Heck surprisingly even Google related outrage seems to simmer down fast now that I think about it. Google+ integration? Yeah it annoyed people but now everyone seems to just roll with it. Copyright updates? Still kind of a hot topic but it's not popping up in my subscription box anymore like it was a month ago, and even people who were calling to attention the news are not talking about it much anymore.

...okay that was a weird tangent of mine that barely related to any of this. :?
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12 Jan 2014 20:21

And this, ladies and gents, is why Twitter is retarded. The poor guy had to make like 8-9 posts just to finish a fairly short statement. 180 character limit FTW, right?
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12 Jan 2014 20:26

t27duck wrote:@Aiddon It got linked to on a Kutaku article. So the lowest of the lows (gawker network) is aware of it.

@Eternal Rain Yeah, I've been meaning to put myself on the staff page. Pretty much anyone with a red username has "god mode" over the site (cort, RMC, myself). And like I said, it's a tough-love relationship I have with Nintendo. Hell, I'm trying to push my way through a 100% in 3D World right now, and while I know it's a great game and I do not regret my purchase of the console, I know from not only seeing how the competition has their systems set up but also knowing what modern technology is capable of from a software and hardware standpoint, there is a part of me that knows the Wii U could've been so much more... (and yes, I realize that was probably a very long run-on sentence).


As someone who's becoming more tech savy as of late I get what you mean, and it's cool, I think most of us wish that some of our favorite systems changed up a few things (as much as I love the 3DS, even I'll admit a built in second circle pad on the 3DS would have been welcome rather than as an add on, especially on an XL model), but in the end I think most of the time we look back more on the good rather than the bad. So yeah it's all good, sorry I got a wrong impression of you, I'm trying to not ruffle any feathers around here.

And hearing Kotaku got wind of it also makes me go "oh gosh then what is there to worry about?" because honestly Kotaku seems to be that site that a lot of people love to poke fun at for publishing unsubstantiated rumor and whatnot (even Two Best Friends used to joke about it a lot and usually try and avoid linking it in their Podcast show notes).
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12 Jan 2014 20:33

What I don't understand is why isn't anyone talking about the terrible CPU's in the ps4/xBone. The AMD Jaguar was designed for a tablet system. Why is Nintendo being singled out here? The clock speed isn't all that much faster. 1.3ghz in the Wii U and 1.6ghz in the xBone/ps4... The different in 300mhz is marginal at best..... Extra cores do not double the speed of a processor, only assists with hyper threading.

The processor in the ps4 is so terrible, you won't even find it in a budget laptop. You can buy any dual core x86 desktop CPU off the shelf and it will outperform the 8 core jaguar... Heck my file server in the other room has a single core 3ghz AMD 64 from 2003 and it would out perform the jaguar. So why doesn't DF do any articles on how pitiful the ps4's processor is???

How pitiful you ask? If Nintendo chose a quad core PowerPC running at the same clock speed as the jaguar clock speed it would outperform it effortlessly. As much as I love PC gaming, but I realize that x86 processors are pretty much the most inefficient processors ever built. It only became popular in the 80's because how well they performed vs. how they cost a fraction of RISC, SPARC and other processors at the time. x86 processors are so cheap that consumers could afford buy CPU's with higher clock speeds and just brute force code that other processors with much lower clock speeds were able to breeze right through.

I can't stress this enough. It's like taking the processor in your latest smartphone and double up the cores. It's pathetic.... The difference is Nintendo never claims to make high end gaming hardware.... Sony and Microsoft do.
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12 Jan 2014 21:02

Yeah I was actually surprised that the PS4 and Xbox One clock speeds weren't really THAT much faster when I read about them. I admit that I am still a bit of a hardware newbie, so apologies if some of my information is off, but really a 1.6-1.7 GHz CPU that has eight cores sounds rather weak. My PC has an AMD CPU that clocks in at 3.5 GHz with six cores, meaning my PC beats out all major home consoles in terms of raw clock speed right off the bat (games like Serious Sam 3 even outright say "yeah you're CPU is good enough to ultra these CPU specific settings no problem"). The way people were originally talking about the PS4 and Xbone specs I was thinking they clocked in at 3 GHz or something, but nope they don't.
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12 Jan 2014 21:28

element187 wrote:What I don't understand is why isn't anyone talking about the terrible CPU's in the ps4/xBone. The AMD Jaguar was designed for a tablet system. Why is Nintendo being singled out here? The clock speed isn't all that much faster. 1.3ghz in the Wii U and 1.6ghz in the xBone/ps4... The different in 300mhz is marginal at best..... Extra cores do not double the speed of a processor, only assists with hyper threading.

The processor in the ps4 is so terrible, you won't even find it in a budget laptop. You can buy any dual core x86 desktop CPU off the shelf and it will outperform the 8 core jaguar... Heck my file server in the other room has a single core 3ghz AMD 64 from 2003 and it would out perform the jaguar. So why doesn't DF do any articles on how pitiful the ps4's processor is???

How pitiful you ask? If Nintendo chose a quad core PowerPC running at the same clock speed as the jaguar clock speed it would outperform it effortlessly. As much as I love PC gaming, but I realize that x86 processors are pretty much the most inefficient processors ever built. It only became popular in the 80's because how well they performed vs. how they cost a fraction of RISC, SPARC and other processors at the time. x86 processors are so cheap that consumers could afford buy CPU's with higher clock speeds and just brute force code that other processors with much lower clock speeds were able to breeze right through.

I can't stress this enough. It's like taking the processor in your latest smartphone and double up the cores. It's pathetic.... The difference is Nintendo never claims to make high end gaming hardware.... Sony and Microsoft do.



^^^^^^^^^THIS ...

However a couple tidbits of info as I understand it...
1. Jaguar SUCKS bigtime for PC's there's no doubt about it... Intel Dual cores will beat the pants off of a Bulldozer chipset... HOWEVER ... that is in a windows environment... If Developers Code to the metal or are very efficient at programming in a PS4 environment they can still yield FAR better results than the netbooks this chipset was originally built for.

2. Custom engineering. You can't deny the custom design sony has made is pretty different that it is hard to compare it core for core to any chip anymore. for one thing just the chips alone aren't too impressive... but you'll be hard put to find a netbook with 8 GB of GDDR5 ram... you see it's about how all the components work together in this situation. So YES core for core powerPC chips would outstrip this awful AMD cpu anyway... but as I said... the PC is a far different machine once you include all the custom that has been done to this chip and even Wii U's Espresso.

3. I AGREE COMPLETELY THAT SONY AND MICROSOFT DESERVE MORE SLACK because these hardware designs are not as CRAZY powerful as everyone makes them out to be. Sony is seeing the success they are seeing more because of Nintendo's follies and Microsofts FAILS, rather than actually doing things right.
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12 Jan 2014 22:16

MaggotCakes wrote:
element187 wrote:What I don't understand is why isn't anyone talking about the terrible CPU's in the ps4/xBone. The AMD Jaguar was designed for a tablet system. Why is Nintendo being singled out here? The clock speed isn't all that much faster. 1.3ghz in the Wii U and 1.6ghz in the xBone/ps4... The different in 300mhz is marginal at best..... Extra cores do not double the speed of a processor, only assists with hyper threading.

The processor in the ps4 is so terrible, you won't even find it in a budget laptop. You can buy any dual core x86 desktop CPU off the shelf and it will outperform the 8 core jaguar... Heck my file server in the other room has a single core 3ghz AMD 64 from 2003 and it would out perform the jaguar. So why doesn't DF do any articles on how pitiful the ps4's processor is???

How pitiful you ask? If Nintendo chose a quad core PowerPC running at the same clock speed as the jaguar clock speed it would outperform it effortlessly. As much as I love PC gaming, but I realize that x86 processors are pretty much the most inefficient processors ever built. It only became popular in the 80's because how well they performed vs. how they cost a fraction of RISC, SPARC and other processors at the time. x86 processors are so cheap that consumers could afford buy CPU's with higher clock speeds and just brute force code that other processors with much lower clock speeds were able to breeze right through.

I can't stress this enough. It's like taking the processor in your latest smartphone and double up the cores. It's pathetic.... The difference is Nintendo never claims to make high end gaming hardware.... Sony and Microsoft do.



^^^^^^^^^THIS ...

However a couple tidbits of info as I understand it...
1. Jaguar SUCKS bigtime for PC's there's no doubt about it... Intel Dual cores will beat the pants off of a Bulldozer chipset... HOWEVER ... that is in a windows environment... If Developers Code to the metal or are very efficient at programming in a PS4 environment they can still yield FAR better results than the netbooks this chipset was originally built for.

2. Custom engineering. You can't deny the custom design sony has made is pretty different that it is hard to compare it core for core to any chip anymore. for one thing just the chips alone aren't too impressive... but you'll be hard put to find a netbook with 8 GB of GDDR5 ram... you see it's about how all the components work together in this situation. So YES core for core powerPC chips would outstrip this awful AMD cpu anyway... but as I said... the PC is a far different machine once you include all the custom that has been done to this chip and even Wii U's Espresso.

3. I AGREE COMPLETELY THAT SONY AND MICROSOFT DESERVE MORE SLACK because these hardware designs are not as CRAZY powerful as everyone makes them out to be. Sony is seeing the success they are seeing more because of Nintendo's follies and Microsofts FAILS, rather than actually doing things right.

Yeah MaggotCakes hit the important key facts here. The 2 problems with element187's post is that AMD Jaguar CPU's aren't released yet for consumers outside of PS4/X1 and while design wise made for lower powered products, there are server-grade jaguar chips too. You'll also have it consider that the ps4 and x1 are highly customized jaguar chipsets. When the 360 and PS3 launched they separated the CPU and GPU. Ps4 and x1 are AMD APU's that pits both the GPU and cpu on the same die, and thanks to moore's law things work better/faster the closer they are. But I'm not defending the PS4 or X1, although confirming that YES, it's dumb people hate on the higher quality IBM CPU's (infrastructure of Wii U) instead of getting upset at the "budget" AMD set ups. Although the CPU's aren't the best, both X1 and ps4 house much better GPU's. Again, when it's all said and done I don't care what specs are because we get INCREDIBLE looking games like Mario 3D World that looks better than anything I've seen on X1 and PS4 (both systems which I own BTW). That's why Nintendo doesn't focus on specs, because no matter what their games will look magnificent.
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12 Jan 2014 23:02

RD3AV5 wrote:
MaggotCakes wrote:
element187 wrote:What I don't understand is why isn't anyone talking about the terrible CPU's in the ps4/xBone. The AMD Jaguar was designed for a tablet system. Why is Nintendo being singled out here? The clock speed isn't all that much faster. 1.3ghz in the Wii U and 1.6ghz in the xBone/ps4... The different in 300mhz is marginal at best..... Extra cores do not double the speed of a processor, only assists with hyper threading.

The processor in the ps4 is so terrible, you won't even find it in a budget laptop. You can buy any dual core x86 desktop CPU off the shelf and it will outperform the 8 core jaguar... Heck my file server in the other room has a single core 3ghz AMD 64 from 2003 and it would out perform the jaguar. So why doesn't DF do any articles on how pitiful the ps4's processor is???

How pitiful you ask? If Nintendo chose a quad core PowerPC running at the same clock speed as the jaguar clock speed it would outperform it effortlessly. As much as I love PC gaming, but I realize that x86 processors are pretty much the most inefficient processors ever built. It only became popular in the 80's because how well they performed vs. how they cost a fraction of RISC, SPARC and other processors at the time. x86 processors are so cheap that consumers could afford buy CPU's with higher clock speeds and just brute force code that other processors with much lower clock speeds were able to breeze right through.

I can't stress this enough. It's like taking the processor in your latest smartphone and double up the cores. It's pathetic.... The difference is Nintendo never claims to make high end gaming hardware.... Sony and Microsoft do.



^^^^^^^^^THIS ...

However a couple tidbits of info as I understand it...
1. Jaguar SUCKS bigtime for PC's there's no doubt about it... Intel Dual cores will beat the pants off of a Bulldozer chipset... HOWEVER ... that is in a windows environment... If Developers Code to the metal or are very efficient at programming in a PS4 environment they can still yield FAR better results than the netbooks this chipset was originally built for.

2. Custom engineering. You can't deny the custom design sony has made is pretty different that it is hard to compare it core for core to any chip anymore. for one thing just the chips alone aren't too impressive... but you'll be hard put to find a netbook with 8 GB of GDDR5 ram... you see it's about how all the components work together in this situation. So YES core for core powerPC chips would outstrip this awful AMD cpu anyway... but as I said... the PC is a far different machine once you include all the custom that has been done to this chip and even Wii U's Espresso.

3. I AGREE COMPLETELY THAT SONY AND MICROSOFT DESERVE MORE SLACK because these hardware designs are not as CRAZY powerful as everyone makes them out to be. Sony is seeing the success they are seeing more because of Nintendo's follies and Microsofts FAILS, rather than actually doing things right.

Yeah MaggotCakes hit the important key facts here. The 2 problems with element187's post is that AMD Jaguar CPU's aren't released yet for consumers outside of PS4/X1 and while design wise made for lower powered products, there are server-grade jaguar chips too. You'll also have it consider that the ps4 and x1 are highly customized jaguar chipsets. When the 360 and PS3 launched they separated the CPU and GPU. Ps4 and x1 are AMD APU's that pits both the GPU and cpu on the same die, and thanks to moore's law things work better/faster the closer they are. But I'm not defending the PS4 or X1, although confirming that YES, it's dumb people hate on the higher quality IBM CPU's (infrastructure of Wii U) instead of getting upset at the "budget" AMD set ups. Although the CPU's aren't the best, both X1 and ps4 house much better GPU's. Again, when it's all said and done I don't care what specs are because we get INCREDIBLE looking games like Mario 3D World that looks better than anything I've seen on X1 and PS4 (both systems which I own BTW). That's why Nintendo doesn't focus on specs, because no matter what their games will look magnificent.



But when you are using the GPU to pick up the slack of the weak CPU's you are losing precious graphic rendering power as a result. So that mobile Radeon 7850 in the ps4 will lose some power.... Sony claimed it was a 1.8 teraflop device, but there is no way in hades a 1.8 teraflop device wouldn't be able to run AC4 in 1080p/60fps.... Yet the PS4 is only running it at 30fps. It is starting to appear like this GPGPU isn't as great as theories have stated. I read tons of article on how great this new way to render games will be, that PC gamers will be moving to this GPGPU design and so far all the results we have seen to date is its an absolute dud.

Nintendo never markets their device as a high powered device, so I fail to understand why the Wii U's power is talked about so much. It's a few times faster than the subhd twins, which is far more power than what Nintendo needs... I seriously believe Nintendo's next console will be the max their franchises will ever need. The Wii U is plenty powerful for what they need it for as it is.

If you want a high powered system just skip consoles all together, escape the 30fps ghetto of Sony/Microsoft. Get a PC or steambox. 3x the power of the xBone for the same price. That's like the gulf between the Wii U and the xBone.
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12 Jan 2014 23:24

MaggotCakes wrote:
element187 wrote:What I don't understand is why isn't anyone talking about the terrible CPU's in the ps4/xBone. The AMD Jaguar was designed for a tablet system. Why is Nintendo being singled out here? The clock speed isn't all that much faster. 1.3ghz in the Wii U and 1.6ghz in the xBone/ps4... The different in 300mhz is marginal at best..... Extra cores do not double the speed of a processor, only assists with hyper threading.

The processor in the ps4 is so terrible, you won't even find it in a budget laptop. You can buy any dual core x86 desktop CPU off the shelf and it will outperform the 8 core jaguar... Heck my file server in the other room has a single core 3ghz AMD 64 from 2003 and it would out perform the jaguar. So why doesn't DF do any articles on how pitiful the ps4's processor is???

How pitiful you ask? If Nintendo chose a quad core PowerPC running at the same clock speed as the jaguar clock speed it would outperform it effortlessly. As much as I love PC gaming, but I realize that x86 processors are pretty much the most inefficient processors ever built. It only became popular in the 80's because how well they performed vs. how they cost a fraction of RISC, SPARC and other processors at the time. x86 processors are so cheap that consumers could afford buy CPU's with higher clock speeds and just brute force code that other processors with much lower clock speeds were able to breeze right through.

I can't stress this enough. It's like taking the processor in your latest smartphone and double up the cores. It's pathetic.... The difference is Nintendo never claims to make high end gaming hardware.... Sony and Microsoft do.



^^^^^^^^^THIS ...

However a couple tidbits of info as I understand it...
1. Jaguar SUCKS bigtime for PC's there's no doubt about it... Intel Dual cores will beat the pants off of a Bulldozer chipset... HOWEVER ... that is in a windows environment... If Developers Code to the metal or are very efficient at programming in a PS4 environment they can still yield FAR better results than the netbooks this chipset was originally built for.

2. Custom engineering. You can't deny the custom design sony has made is pretty different that it is hard to compare it core for core to any chip anymore. for one thing just the chips alone aren't too impressive... but you'll be hard put to find a netbook with 8 GB of GDDR5 ram... you see it's about how all the components work together in this situation. So YES core for core powerPC chips would outstrip this awful AMD cpu anyway... but as I said... the PC is a far different machine once you include all the custom that has been done to this chip and even Wii U's Espresso.

3. I AGREE COMPLETELY THAT SONY AND MICROSOFT DESERVE MORE SLACK because these hardware designs are not as CRAZY powerful as everyone makes them out to be. Sony is seeing the success they are seeing more because of Nintendo's follies and Microsofts FAILS, rather than actually doing things right.


Damn. Really hit the nail right in the head lol. :lol:
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13 Jan 2014 00:58

element187 wrote:
But when you are using the GPU to pick up the slack of the weak CPU's you are losing precious graphic rendering power as a result. So that mobile Radeon 7850 in the ps4 will lose some power.... Sony claimed it was a 1.8 teraflop device, but there is no way in hades a 1.8 teraflop device wouldn't be able to run AC4 in 1080p/60fps.... Yet the PS4 is only running it at 30fps. It is starting to appear like this GPGPU isn't as great as theories have stated. I read tons of article on how great this new way to render games will be, that PC gamers will be moving to this GPGPU design and so far all the results we have seen to date is its an absolute dud.

Nintendo never markets their device as a high powered device, so I fail to understand why the Wii U's power is talked about so much. It's a few times faster than the subhd twins, which is far more power than what Nintendo needs... I seriously believe Nintendo's next console will be the max their franchises will ever need. The Wii U is plenty powerful for what they need it for as it is.

If you want a high powered system just skip consoles all together, escape the 30fps ghetto of Sony/Microsoft. Get a PC or steambox. 3x the power of the xBone for the same price. That's like the gulf between the Wii U and the xBone.

Wow. I cannot decide where to start. So many false statements in your post. Ok, let's start with facts first then more subjunctive material after. FIRST you claim that the PS4 has a MOBILE Radeon GPU inside it, which is false. The PS4 GPU is similar to an HD 7850/7870 card, NOT a mobile radeon. GPGPU technology has been around for a while in PC's and is nothing new/special. Nvidia has been using "GPGPU" tech since around 2007 in their CUDA cores. And "teraflops" are not very significant in games, floating points aren't NEARLY as important as texture units or CU's. Teraflops get thrown around like camera companies do with megapixels to cameras. It doesn't matter how many megapixels you have if your optics suck. Lastly GPU's are WAAAY more important in a GAMING CONSOLE than a CPU. GRANTED... and this is where it gets technical, but yeah CPU's are important to calculations and physics and some games are CPU heavy like Total War: Shogun 2, but then comes the NEXT problem; COMPARING A COMPUTER TO A GAME CONSOLE. You CANNOT do that. SO much comes into play with differentiating factors it's not even funny. MaggotCakes does a good job of explaining things already, but game consoles have no other variables, they don't change. Because something is standard, MUCH more research can go into development of a game console for 5+ years as opposed to a new GPU that comes out every 3 months. Lastly, this is silly to argue anything more because I actually do agree with you about the Wii U being plenty powerful. I think Nintendo did a great job with the tech in Wii U.
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13 Jan 2014 01:02

Wii U is struggling because of lack of 3rd party, 3rd party needs to make the move first. Stop playing coy and hop into bed already. ;)


This guy's got it exactly right. Either that or he's got his tinfoil hat on and is in on the conspiracy with me right Ridley? :wink:

However it won't happen unfortunately because like I spent all damn day in another post explaining, 3rd parties have no intention of supporting Nintendo's platforms anymore regardless of hardware sales or console power and so on and so forth and so the excuses they come up with for not doing so are just that, excuses.
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13 Jan 2014 05:18

element187 wrote:What I don't understand is why isn't anyone talking about the terrible CPU's in the ps4/xBone. The AMD Jaguar was designed for a tablet system. Why is Nintendo being singled out here? The clock speed isn't all that much faster. 1.3ghz in the Wii U and 1.6ghz in the xBone/ps4... The different in 300mhz is marginal at best..... Extra cores do not double the speed of a processor, only assists with hyper threading.

The processor in the ps4 is so terrible, you won't even find it in a budget laptop. You can buy any dual core x86 desktop CPU off the shelf and it will outperform the 8 core jaguar... Heck my file server in the other room has a single core 3ghz AMD 64 from 2003 and it would out perform the jaguar. So why doesn't DF do any articles on how pitiful the ps4's processor is???

How pitiful you ask? If Nintendo chose a quad core PowerPC running at the same clock speed as the jaguar clock speed it would outperform it effortlessly. As much as I love PC gaming, but I realize that x86 processors are pretty much the most inefficient processors ever built. It only became popular in the 80's because how well they performed vs. how they cost a fraction of RISC, SPARC and other processors at the time. x86 processors are so cheap that consumers could afford buy CPU's with higher clock speeds and just brute force code that other processors with much lower clock speeds were able to breeze right through.

I can't stress this enough. It's like taking the processor in your latest smartphone and double up the cores. It's pathetic.... The difference is Nintendo never claims to make high end gaming hardware.... Sony and Microsoft do.


The Wii U was the first next gen system to come out for one [the other two weren't announced for almost a year later!]
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13 Jan 2014 09:46

"Wii U is struggling because of lack of 3rd party, 3rd party needs to make the move first. Stop playing coy and hop into bed already."

It won't happen though... Not until Sony and Microsoft stop being the bigger 3rd party recipients and 3rd parties choice for their games.
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13 Jan 2014 10:01

A good read and some good discussion in here. All I know, looking at Wii U's future releases and looking at the other systems future releases, I'm not seeing the graphical difference that makes me think there's this huge gap the way these anonymous devs are claiming. X, Bayo 2, MK8, Wonderful 101, and SM3DWorld all look as though they could have been PS4/XB1 games. I mean, it must be incredibly difficult to claim the Wii U can hardly reach 360 and PS3 graphical fidelity when you have those games out/on the way.
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13 Jan 2014 10:17

Eternal Rain wrote:I have at least two issues with the original article in question as well:

1) As pointed out here, it was an early dev kit, of course things will change. I bet you it was the same with the PS4, Xbone, and other previous gen systems (I may even be wrong about this, but wasn't it said somewhere that at least one older console supposedly had MORE power to it in early kits that got downgraded for the final kit?). The main thing is how well you can adapt to the changes.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the PS3, since the Cell processor should have 8 co-processor cores, but one is disabled in hardware to improve yield and one is used just for DRM/background tasks. If the software was wrote with the full 7/8 in mind it would mean extra tweaking to get it to run when it goes down to, essentially, 6. And of course the fact that Sony had to through in an off the shelf GPU because the Cell couldn't actually handle graphics, and they didn't even go for one that could handle scaling in hardware....

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