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Takashi Tezuka has interest in working on non-Mario projects, wants to exceed NSMB


Categories: Interviews, Media
Tags: wii-u

Comments

impurekind
Tue Sep 08 15 10:46am
(Updated 1 time)

Eh, how about rather than exceeding the New Super Mario Bros games, you actually aim to exceed the likes of Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World? Ya know, the best Super Mario Bros games of all time.

Well the chart says, more people enjoyed NSMB.
http://otakudome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/graphgaf1.png

If anything he needs to exceed the original.

No, the chart says NSMB got more sales. Sales != popularity, otherwise Angry Birds would be the greatest game of all time.

Angry Birds was everywhere, it was popular and come to think of it, it likely didn't sell as much as it thrive on merchandise, kinda like the Smurfs movie marketing strategy.

But oh well, if we scratch that, NSMB was the most accessible Mario game series, and it comes to show that's what sells these types of games.

Worth considering, however, is how digital sales (as well as older re-releases and maybe Super Mario All-Stars) on Wii, Wii U & 3DS contribute to most of those as well. I imagine the numbers would be a bit different then.

Also, Super Mario Bros. most likely has such a high number for the same reason stuff like Wii Sports does (being a pack in for a long time).

I have to wonder how NSMB's digital sales stack up to the classic games, and the combined total for them all, but I imagine we'll never know.

Yeah, the chart's bullsh*t, if you think that's and indicator of how many people enjoyed which game the most.

Demand or enjoyment are not determining factors in quality. Demand is a clearer way to tell what people want than waiting 20 or so years to hear which game people remember the most.

Trust me: People want the next SMB3 or SMW, not the next NSMB—even those people that think they want the next NSMB.

vonter
Tue Sep 08 15 06:43pm
(Updated 1 time)

I'm not arguing that's not the case, still even I who just bought the original NSMB can't grasp the successful monster it is. More than the Rayman recent games, more than Retro's DKC, etc. Even on Wii U despite the low install base it has an unreal attach ratio. All in all, calling to exceed that is a feat in itself, IMO.

Well, in terms of sales, yes. I'm hoping he meant more than just in terms of sales however.

I feel like Tezuka is the chubby dweeb that hangs out with the cool kids on the playground. Miyamoto, Sakurai and Aonuma just sorta tollerate him, and when ever Tezuka get's the balls to say "I want to do something as great as you guys" They just stuff Yoshi and Mario down this throw and say "Here, you literally cannot mess this up." and then go back to doing whatever cool kids do.

No way. Aonuma and Sakurai wish they were half as good as Tezuka.

Tezuka was a game designer for Devil World, the original Super Mario Bros. trilogy, and The Legend of Zelda (which he also wrote and directed).

He also directed Super Mario Bros. 2 (JP), 3, World, Yoshi's Island, Zelda, A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening & was assistant director on Super Mario 64.

Maybe now he's kind of along for the ride, primarily producing, but he's definitely contributed more important things. Miyamoto, for example, simply produced most of those games, rather than being directly involved in the creation or directing.

I'm talking about now, not then.

If you want to pull that, Sakurai is the only one still directing and designing his own games.

Miyamoto & Aonuma are just producers and supervisors. They're just as un-involved.

It's not hard to outdo NSMB. Hell, I'm about to do it myself in about 3 more days.

Was just about to post something similar. Laughing

That is just completely wrong. I think you underestimate how hard it is to make levels like the ones from Mario U and how great and refined the level design is in this game.

Hopefuly SMM will make you realise that.

You guys are too hard on NSMB. Especially U. The level design is very smart in pretty much every course. I wish you luck trying to make better than that. XD

They're not bad games by any means but all of them were extremely "safe." As someone else said, Mario is a franchise that is exceedingly difficult to screw up and there really haven't been any genuinely bad Mario games since the days of the CD-I and Edutainment games. You can practically count on your fingers and toes the number of times that the Mario franchise took enormous risks and didn't have it explode in its face. The NSMB games are pretty cookie cutter because they don't deviate too far from the formula of the original, SMB3, and SMW. Good games but you can't exactly put a frozen pizza in the oven and start calling yourself a chef.

Not denying the NSMB games are super safe, of course. Just meant the specific design of the courses are all top-notch, and it is a shame to see a lot of people completely ignore that, claiming old Mario games had 'better stages'. I prefer things like Mario 3 (amazing game), and it's Feel is unbeatable, but NSMBU is in it's own great class of design. Safe or not. ^^

I do want some more daring Mario games sometime, though. Sunshine was great.

Good games but you can't exactly put a frozen pizza in the oven and start calling yourself a chef.

That's a rather strange analogy, and, furthermore, one that isn't really analogous to anything.

Someone had to cook that pizza in the first place, and that person is most certainly a chef by definition. A frozen pizza would be like a near-identical remake, possibly even a remake that's *inferior* to the original game.

NSMB (the console titles, anyway) are more like extra large pizzas with ten times the toppings and a side of cheese sticks (or cinnamon, if that's your preference).

They don't have to drastically deviate from the formula because they're sequels; by definition, their intent is to elaborate on the fundamentals and add to and remix existing design models. And the console NSMBs do that quite well, considering they have among the most interesting and complex level design in not only the series, but the entire genre.

But, as I implied, the work was largely already done. The NSMB games took elements from previous 2D and 3D Mario games and didn't really do anything extraordinarily new, which is why it wasn't really a big risk to make them. I seriously doubt Nintendo was biting its nails and thinking to itself "oh man, I sure hope people like these 2D Mario games" because they were adding elements from almost every wildly successful Mario platformer before it. The only thing they really added that was new for Mario was the Challenge Modes and 4 players and a lot of people agree that neither were too terribly ground breaking and didn't add a huge amount to the overall game. Also, I will go ahead and say that they are inferior to the originals, especially SMB3. If the first four games were As, these were Bs with NSMBU probably being a B+ but I don't think any of them will be reveled as classics years from now.

Wed Sep 09 15 04:56pm
(Updated 2 times)

The work is largely done for most sequels, and I've already explained what the intent of a sequel is.

The NSMB games took elements from previous 2D and 3D Mario games and didn't really do anything extraordinarily new

4-player multiplayer is certainly a significant new feature, and newer than anything SMW had in it. There are also dozens of new design elements which you can observe simply by playing the game, but if not, you may read about individual levels on the Mario Wiki. Wall jumping, rolling platforms, suspended orbs of water, motion-controlled platforms, ghost blocks, and jellybeams are just a few of the dozens of neat concepts intorduced in the NSMB titles.

You seem to think that popular opinion signifies of quality, but in that case NSMBWii is still superior to SMB3 and SMW, and by a landslide at that.

moldyclay
Tue Sep 08 15 01:18pm
(Updated 2 times)

I think the main problem is that they're boring to look at because they all look the same. Obviously the graphics 'improve' but when you look at SMB, SMB3 & SMW, you see an evolution in not only the graphics, but the style and way the game looks and feels in general.

Each NSMB game pretty much looks like the previous one, plays like the previous one and shares all of the same enemies, bosses & power-ups with very little venturing out and beyond that. So while the level designs may be fun and well-made, it feels like you're just going through the motions. Nothing that makes you go "wow" when you play it.

Super Mario Maker, despite revisiting all old games, allows for the "wow" factor in the kinds of things the game allows you to do. It's moreso the "remix" functionality of how you can't expect what you would normally expect of a Mario stage. So even with NSMB style, it's suddenly a new feel because of the new things you can do with enemies and the environment.

Even though it is such a trivial thing in concept, the art style (not graphics) and music being the same throughout the series really made it feel stale.

In comparison, for example, look at even the 3D Mario games, since nearly every 3D (and 2.5D) Mario title now uses the same boring assets across everything. 64, Sunshine, Galaxies & 3D Land/World - all different styles, despite using the same-ish 3D Mario (except 64 obviously, due to graphics). NSMB could have done that. SM3DW had beautiful art, despite being a "safe" approach for the most part.

Tue Sep 08 15 09:30pm
(Updated 1 time)

shares all of the same enemies, bosses & power-ups

Factually incorrect.

So while the level designs may be fun and well-made

Yeah, exceptional level design really doesn't matters much in platformers (or games in general). Pfft, who even cares about that stuff nowadays? It's all about that nebulous thing known as 'Feel', which we derive from the art style (I think).

Because clearly, SMB's brick terrain and SMB3's MS Paint backdrops are the pinnacle of the series' aesthetics. Meanwhile, NSMBU's rich green fields (composed of actual plant matter!), textured rocks and soil (complete with strata), lovely backgrounds with actual depth, new world-building elements (acorn tree), and charmingly animated characters and environments are nothing more than stale rehashes.

Also, your SMM comparison is silly. Simply having a dozen goomba stacked on top of two bowsers commanding a tower of bill blasters is more 'wow' than all the new enemies and design concepts introduced in the NSMB games (the majority of which are not even available in SMM)? The stuff you can do with SMM is most definitely really cool and the game is most likely going to make my top 3 games of the year, but come on, dude. SMM doesn't even have slopes!

It's like you don't know what I was getting at.

What the hell new enemies are you seeing in NSMB? I can only think of variants of old ones.

Also, I'm not saying NSMB itself has a worse look or feel than the originals. I'm talking about between other NSMB games. THEY all look the same. The only major standout was NSMBU adding that awesome starry night stuff. Again, I repeat, I'm not saying NSMB in general looks more boring. The fact that, aside from going from grainy DS to HD Wii U, it's the same. So it's boring to go from NSMB to NSMBW to NSMB2 to NSMBU. Going from SMW to NSMB was fine.

And don't throw that 'you're saying gameplay doesn't matter' garbage at me. I'm a champion for games valuing gameplay over graphics.

That doesn't make it any less boring to look at the same thing on 4 systems. Just like I'd have been pissed if every game looked like SMB1, 3 or World. It's not exclusive to NSMB, SMB1 & 2 (jp) did it too.

Superficial it may be, but visuals directly affect enjoyment for people on an unconscious level.

The bottom line is just being sick of seeing the same thing. Like if someone was sick of seeing Toon Link Zelda games.

What the hell new enemies are you seeing in NSMB?

Huckit crabs, bramballs, bulbers, cooligans, ghost blocks and ghost vases, dragoneels, flipruses, and waddlewings are all new. There's also Nabbit, if you consider him an enemy.

I don't see the problem with variations of existing enemies. It's the mechanical application that matters. It would be a waste of time coming up with a brand new character for a bullet bill that behaves differently. Furthermore, I'd even argue that making a new enemy with a similar mechanical concept to that of an enemy that already exists a variation of the latter would be better design. When the player sees a boohemoth or some new type of bullet bill, they'll know what it's most basic behavior will be, and will be able to focus instead on reacting to the behaviors that are new or different from their cousins.

Additionally, variations of existing enemies also serve to develop the game world. Of course, I also love to see new enemies, but keep in mind that the NSMB games take place in the Mushroom Kingdom, so it makes sense that we'd see a lot of members from the same family.

The fact that, aside from going from grainy DS to HD Wii U, it's the same.

Fair enough, though that was probably done for the sake of marketing, and specifically towards casuals. It's probably easier to use a style that everyone is familiar with instead of making something radically new that might 'confuse' them.

Superficial it may be, but visuals directly affect enjoyment for people on an unconscious level.

Yeah, but if it's unconscious, how would you even know? I'm not denying that visuals can hamper one's enjoyment of a game, but I do believe that with the exception of crude graphics that actual affect play-ability or an aesthetic that turns you off for reasons 'outside' the game (e.g. extreme violence), you should be able to look past the aesthetics in order to appreciate the more important elements. Hey, I initially (stupidly) wrote off NSMBWii because of the visuals, but I was intrigued into giving it a try, and after actually playing it and witnessing just how exceptional the level design was, the visuals started to grow on me. I still think NSMBWii is rather bland (though technically impressive), but NSMBU is nice-looking.

Like if someone was sick of seeing Toon Link Zelda games.

I think that's mostly because most of the games with Toon Link are rather graphically ugly and don't do the art style justice (the 3D ones anyway, Minish Cap is lovely and FSA is decent). Even Tri Force Heroes being developed for the vastly superior hardware of the 3DS, just looks like a sharper, somewhat more vibrant PH/ST.

pittoo
Thu Sep 10 15 05:25am
(Updated 1 time)

I'm gonna chime in here for a second. I believe that the reason so many people seem to be turned off by the NSMB series nowadays is that despite its consistently solid level design, it has gotten very stale in a number of ways. The first problem, in my opinion, is that all of the games share the same basic eight worlds-- Grassland, desert, beach, snow, jungle, mountains, sky, lava, along with ghost houses and castles. Meaning that for four games, because the art style has not changed at bit, you're running through almost completely identical looking levels-- To a nearly identical soundtrack each time. Although they do introduce a few new tracks with each one, things like the underground, beach, underwater, and jungle share the same music between the latter three games. And once you're done running through a standard level, then it's into a castle to fight the Koopalings. Sure they have different patterns, but seeing them again and again with the same voice clips and boss music again and again gets dull.

The level design is also not perfect, either. Although it is admittedly wonderful and well designed generally, they have gotten lazy with where they hide their secrets. Secrets are an important part of a game like this for me, and NSMB never, ever changes up how it hides them. Coming up on a door? You'd better hop around next to the wall by the door because there's probably a hidden block there with a power up.

So, anyway. NSMB has just gotten repetitive. I have no desire to play any of them again, or any future installments, because there would be nothing new for a player who's seen it all to discover.

...Just give me a NSMB game with a different, more creative art style and a Mario Kart 8-esque soundtrack and I'd be A-OK, really. lol.

I just want a new Mario game that blows me away from the sense of wonder and imagination involved, something that exceeds 64, Galaxy, Sunshine. I think one of the ways to progress the series is sort of take the route they are with Zelda, sticking with their roots, yet expanding into a modern era of gaming due to the power of technology/experience they have gathered over the years. Like the old Mario cartoon show, or the Mario rpg games, they gave the Mushroom Kingdom this sense of expansiveness, that it was more fleshed out and vast, so I would really in my heart of hearts love to see a Mario game take the 3D main titles they've been making and give you a sense that you can actually explore the Kingdoms, or Space, or Isle Delphino, not just through 1-1 1-2 level progression, make it all cohesive, make it grand. fill it with characters, color and life. I just don't feel that sense of life that the RPG games bring is exclusive to it, they are at a point where they can really expand the series, rather than make smaller scale outings. NSMB is a good game design wise, and it brings the 2d Mario series to the forefront, but there's something missing from it, so to outdo it, would be like outdoing a box of Crispy Rice cereal...just not quite what I'm looking for...but still enjoyable for the time being.

Well I mean NSMBU would have been as great as SMBW if it just had a different art style and music, those were the only things holding it back, and the two things I hope they focus on going forward.

With SMM coming out now, I expect them to create a lot of things we couldn't create in SMM, as well as use different assets from SMM.

I hope this means finally stepping away from the NSMB style and doing a true evolution.

Listen, the NSMB games are fine, but they looked, sounded, and felt the same across each entry. Super Mario Maker is a great bookend to that group. It's time for 2D Mario to evolve with a new style, new music, new power-ups, new enemies, new bosses & new possibilities. It just needs a fresh look and a fresh feel.

NSMB has run its course. We have 5 games + SMM. I think we're good.

Tue Sep 08 15 04:25pm
(Updated 1 time)

Yes. We really need a 2D Mario game that shakes things up, like Yoshi's Island did before it was made into its own franchise. The great thing about the Mario franchise is that it's almost fail proof and it leaves a lot of open-endedness for creativity and risk taking.

That's what makes it such a shame that they DON'T take risks. Mario can get away with it.

It's funny because you have games like Yoshi, Kirby, Zelda, some of Mario's spin-offs, etc all going out of their way to try new things and be experimental and take risks with controls, styles and so on (even if, in many cases, the gameplay can be similar).

Mario sort of relegates its risks to spin-offs (which, even those are slowly falling into safezones) and doesn't take them in his own mainline games really. Unlike, say Sonic, Mario has done it right enough times in 2D & 3D that he can afford doing something crazy and new. Even if it turns out to be a bad idea, he won't be tarnished by it for trying.

Exactly! We should turn this into a petition. lol

Just imagine how dazzling a 2D Mario game could be with new physics, new platforming tricks, and a fresh art style.

My prediction is that the next 2d Mario will be more parkour oriented with an evolution of the NSMB series moveset. I also believe they should radically change the artstyle.

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