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Sakurai unsure of there being another Smash game, says Smash Wii U/3DS DLC ending soon

Coming from a Sakurai interview found in Making of Fire Emblem: 25 Years of Development Secrets, as translated by SourceGaming...

Sakurai: Yes, that applies to Lucina as well. How much a character will please the players, how unique they are—there are a lot of factors that go into deciding a character’s inclusion. I don’t know whether Fire Emblem will have many more games in the future, but it’s not as if we have a stipulation that says “we have to include the protagonist of the next Fire Emblem game.” Moreover, we don’t even know if there’ll be another Smash game.

Interviewer: You do say that every time, though, so I do wonder if maybe it’ll just keep on going forever.

Sakurai: And I’ll become the Smash craftsman? (laughs)

Interviewer: Yes. After all, including the DLC, you’ve been involved with Smash since the beginning.

Sakurai: Well, DLC is coming to an end soon, too, y’know.

Comments

Mentioning unique characters and Lucina in the same sentence. What?

As for Smash, sure, I'd be happy to see the series move forward without Sakurai. I think it's time for someone else to be in charge honestly so that Sakurai can focus on making new original games and someone less stubborn can make a Smash game that's for everyone.

Depends, I personally respect the stubbornness of Sakurai when it came to developing Smash. Honestly would have hated and lost most, if not all, interest in much of Smash if it maintained Melee with just more characters added liberally. May as well just keep rereleasing Melee HD in a Capcom fashion every new console.

But in turn, it worked like a double edged sword. Some modes got changed, others were too extreme to beat in the next installment (SSE anyone?). Personally the SSB4 single play is atrocious, and Melee adventure was better. This was a prime example of how his stubbornness detrimented the game as well improved it.

A glorified beta mode with less variety than Classic is no basis for designing your product.

That's sumption is pretty baseless however, because of that game wasn't any other game that mode would just been considered simplistic and easy to read. However, Super Smash Brothers is not that type of simple game. So people expected a lot more as they should have.

Honestly, melee is fun and never stopped being fun to me, so if every smash was built on the same engine, I would still be on board. In fact, there are distinct advantages on keeping a similar engine. You get to have an easier time with balance, get to focus more on additional content, adding new modes, extras, etc... At this point, I don't even play the new iterations anymore, Which I find rather sad considering that when Melee came out, I have never felt this happy playing a video game.

berrix
Sun Dec 13 15 02:08pm
(Updated 1 time)

The age which you once were when they also come out plays a tactor in that. Love some older games on that nostalgia bias and I am proud of it. Still fun for me because it takes me to those times where there were less worries and interruptions.

That is not because it was solely based on how it was made. And the Melee fanbase has a huge rift between the factions of fans more each year.

But the "easier to balance" argument has not been a good counter argument for a while. Developers like Blizzard and Riot, those who constantly just add characters are oft needing rebalancing each character when new ones arrive. The more characters make for more balancing. Using Melee woupd not make it easier. Unless there were plans to not add more characters.

I don't actually believe nostalgia glasses are actually a big factor in judgement. If anything, assuming that someone is blinded by nostalgia prevents any healthy discussion of a subject matter. The fact is, many old games were amazing, and still hold up because they were well designed to begin with. No one would contest that Super Mario Bros. 3 was fun back then and still is today.

Melee was once enjoyed by everyone. The rift was only created when a loud minority of more casual-oriented players decided to attack competitive players, largely unprovoked because they did not like the idea of losing to highly-skilled players. They played differently, and thus treated like degenerates. Brawl's release took that rift in the fanbase and expanded it greatly, turning my once-beloved community into a hellish landscape that made me hate Smash and go on an extended hiatus. Later, Project M was released and got me out of retirement. The community was nice, and tended to gather a lot of open-minded people. Honestly, if Sakurai had kept strong and left these techniques in the later games, legitimizing them to the less-informed community, the rift would have eventually closed and the community would not be in such a sad state.

While adding a character to a game does change the metagame, changing an entire cast of characters at once by making engine-wide changes screws over the balance even more, requiring a lot more tweaking.

In fact, using Melee's long and storied metagame would actually help quite a bit in achieving balance. After all, it has around than 15 years of hard knowledge.

Melee was once enjoyed by everyone. The rift was only created when a loud minority of more casual-oriented players decided to attack competitive players, largely unprovoked because they did not like the idea of losing to highly-skilled players. They played differently, and thus treated like degenerates.

That is a completely one sided story that, from experience, is NOT what a lot of people saw back then.

Sun Dec 13 15 06:38pm
(Updated 2 times)

Of course they didn't see that. These loud people controlled the narrative. We got treated like garbage for enjoying a game in a different way, some unfortunately responded to the backlash in a vitriolic way, and now we're here.

Almost every single anti-Melee community popular comments you'll see were made up.

I saw the exact opposite started.

I merelt said nostalgia plays a factor, which it definitely does, in games older gamers. Hell some show that gamers introduced during the 3D generations oft take games of previous consoles abrasively at first. Some times seeing them as too hard, others too ugly, but always some reasoning. Whether they do stand the test of time or not is irrelevant to this factor, no matter how minor one sees it in his/her opinion.

Brawl did create a massive rift, cause it was not Melee. Some saw it as refeshing, others a detrimental toxicity in what they saw was the purest form of Smash. This is not the only game that experiences this, but sure as hell one of few no one wants that rift to die. Wavedashing and L-cancelling may not been intended, but I do believe they should have legitimized and taught it. Though removing them shouldn't be as impactful as many proclaim them to be. But that rift has many reasons to have happened, most of them very opinionated.

Many keep proclaiming Melee CAN be a party game yet somehow I see everyone demand very tournament rules for said parties. But somehow they say the same cannot be done in turn For later games. This is where I feel the disparity comes in, along with the rift, for the fanbase. They could go and say the next game is going for Melee's routes and be intensive and strategic and isolate the common player and people will feel it is still not enough cause it just would not be Melee.

I think the later is just a matter of choosing who you play with. I have a preference for tourney rules, but will play party mode is people demand it. Heck, I designed (lookswise) an additional item for Project M, and we do not play with those at tourneys.

I do appreciate your open-mindedness.

He said how unique they are is one factor, but also that pleasing the fans is another factor. There are many factors. It turns out Lucina succeeds in enough of them that he felt she was worth including for her fans without needing to be excessively unique - and also because it was easy/inexpensive to do so.

Certainly, but havign Roy as well being a clone when he wasn't in Melee, that was stretching it.

"a Smash game that's for everyone." Are you implying that the previous Smash games aren't?

Not exactly. Smash 64 and Melee both have quite a bit of competitive depth, making them both amazing competitive games and fantastic party games all at once. Melee especially is for everyone. I would not say the same for later games that are exclusively geared toward party play.

All of them are for everyone... Just because there's a big group of Melee purists who are narrow minded doesn't make every other game not for everyone. Smash is for everyone, always, in any sense.

You assume that they are narrow minded, but they only asked to be respected. The fact that many find the new games dull and dreary while having been the most devoted fans of that series shows that this game is not for everyone. The fact that there is a divide shows this. In the Melee era, everyone loved Melee. It was universal. Now it is not. Stop looking at disagreement and labeling it as narrow-mindedness. This is projection.

Okay, I've been keeping an eye on this comment section because I remember having very similar discussions with you. I could point out a few strange discussion forms you have, but they are not necessarily flawed arguments. ...Just, some odd things to say in context.

Now, the reason I stepped in and ultimately what I fail to understand is you saying that Smash 64 and Melee are for everyone and Brawl and Smash 4 aren't, only to follow it up with this reasoning:

The fact that many find the new games dull and dreary while having been the most devoted fans of that series shows that this game is not for everyone.

Couldn't you use this argument the other way around too? "The fact that people think Melee is too fast and difficult and has terrible physics shows that this game is not for everyone."

And I think you are looking back at Melee with rose-tinted glasses. Not everyone loved Melee; it was far from universal. It was simply *the best we had at that time* but a lot of people think better stuff came along and moved on.

Back when Melee got released, no one was saying that it was too fast or difficult. It was hailed as the best entry in the series by almost every single media outlets and almost every fan. People complained about the speed much, much later after Brawl was released even though they saw it as perfectly fine before. I kinda hypothesize people started embracing that narrative due to hostile intolerance towards Melee players as opposed to even-handed oppinions.

I can't really support that hypothesis. At all. In fact, I'm not even sure I follow the logic. People started complaining about Melee because they hated the people who play Melee? Why did they start hating them in the first place, then?
You're also sort implicitly putting everyone in the same camp here, intentionally or not. You seem to say now that people who complain about Melee do so because they hate Melee players. I don't hate Melee players but I have plenty of complaints about the game.
People I know always thought Melee was too fast and too difficult. But we played it because it was cool to beat up Mario with Pikachu (for example). It was fun in that regard. Nothing has changed.

@Nurio

Haven't you noticed that this anti-Melee sentiment began after brawl came out? Before that, everyone loved Melee. It was considered perfect by everyone. They said the same thing about Brawl, and now that Smash 4 came out, people are saying Brawl was bad, people who played that game before and called it perfect. These games are being treated like trash because they jump on the new one each time, forgetting the good times they had with the past games. As for Melee players, they're pretty much being insulted because they disagree with them. "Wah, this person doesn't like what papa Sakurai did, wah, these people are evil. Waaah, Nintendo cannot make mistakes". That is how I hear it.

I somehow doubt you. I have never seen anyone deem Melee as too fast. At a face level, it is one of the easiest fighters to learn. Move and press a button. That's it. It takes maybe three matches to master at a very base level.

You're waaaaay overgeneralizing and exaggerating here. But at this point, I am hardly surprised anymore.

"[Melee] was considered perfect by everyone."
Really now? It wasn't. By a large margin. There are so many people who didn't think Melee was perfect, even back then.

"Now that Smash 4 came out, people are saying Brawl was bad, people who played that game before and called it perfect"
How can you be certain it's the same people? There were plenty of people hating on Brawl before it even came out (also people from the Melee competitive scene, hint), saying it was too floaty for example. It's more likely it's the same people still hating on Brawl now instead of people magically changing their opinion.

"These games are being treated like trash because they jump on the new one each time, forgetting the good times they had with the past games"
Huge assumption. See above.

"As for Melee players, they're pretty much being insulted because they disagree with them."
Same chicken-and-egg story I (and several others here) keep telling you about. Yes, there is animosity (especially some time ago; it's less now) between the certain people in the Melee competitive scene and other Smash fans. But you keep insisting it's because other Smash fans started hating on Melee for no reason at all. That doesn't make sense at all. Isn't it perhaps so that certain people in the Melee competitive scene hated on Brawl and other people retaliated the asshole behavior? What sounds more likely to you?

"Wah, this person doesn't like what papa Sakurai did, wah, these people are evil. Waaah, Nintendo cannot make mistakes". That is how I hear it.
Thank you for showing me that you misinterpret criticism and grossly exaggerate it. And you doubting me, saying that people don't think Melee is too fast, that really shows you are blind to anything that fairly criticizes Melee.

I don't know what you're talking about. Anyone can enjoy any Smash game, the problem is with people not the games.

You're acting like we can actually control our tastes. Really, dude?

Eeeh no, I'm telling you what kind of game Smash is since you don't seem to understand.

They'll be a Smash 5 on NX, but I'd expect [and hope for] it'd be one sans Sakurai.

Pretty much this.
For Sakurai himself it must be quite the boring task especially since the Smash development times have heavily increased. I'd want to see more other projects from him, Kid Icarus Uprising was a beast.

F**k you man... Sakurai is AMAZING. ToT/

Dude, don't be a fanboy. Insults are not needed here.

I'm might be a fanboy for Smash only, but if he insults Sakurai I can insult him. Two wrongs don't make a right but you should at least not complain while contradicting yourself.

Disagreeing equals insults? In what world do you live in?

He's insulting Sakurai by saying that it's a good thing if he didn't work on Smash. I don't know enough about him to insult him in "a smart way" so a f you will do. I voiced my opinion just as he did, doesn't even matter how you define it, don't discriminate.

nurio
Fri Dec 18 15 08:06am
(Updated 1 time)

There's a difference between not wanting someone to work on the game, and just outright saying f*** you. Whereas the former is just a wish for the future of a game series, the latter only has an insult as its intention.

EDIT: It's not even a wish. He isn't wishing for it. It's a prediction. And it's far from unlikely that Sakurai will stop making Smash Bros. games from now on.

That's not an insult but an observation based on his tastes. For example, since Sakurai has stated that no game will likely ever be as deep as sharp as Melee as long as he'll be in charge, I'd want him to work on something else and leave Smash to another developper.

Well I don't want that and I think someone who thinks Sakurai shouldn't I'm gonna think is stupid. No need to reply.

So, basically, you're saying... "I don't want to discuss this on a discussion forum" even though YOU were the one challenging someone else's opinion? If you don't want discussion, then don't provoke discussion be replying with a "f*** you" when someone gives their prediction.

I don't always agree with you, but on that, I think we can get along, lol.

Herp derp. There's just nothing more to be said. And I don't wanna waste time on this. I can do whatever I want, I don't care if I "challenge" or "provoke", I'm just doing what he did, saying what I feel like saying. Drop it ffs.

If Sakurai is going to add a million more Fire Emblem characters, I'd rather he not continue making Smash games anyway.

It depends. If you look at Project M, Roy, Marth and Ike each play differently. You could have a Lyn with a sheathing sword technique, or a Hector with an axe. It's not about the swords, it's about making a good moveset. Roy didn't have to be a mindless clone in Smash 4. Even Melee did it better by altering angles.

I just don't think the series deserves more than five characters, especially considering its tired as hell anime art style. I'd much prefer a franchise getting characters that are more unique, beyond moveset even. I'm so sick of anime characters, I'm sorry!!

Dude, I won't be mad at you for having a different opinion, it's fine. I love Fire Emblem, so I'd liek to see more. Still, I am more about Golden Sun right now.

I wouldn't say that Fire Emblem doesn't deserve five characters, but I will say they don't deserve more characters than Donkey Kong or Starfox.

You're a disgrace to the Smash community, I hope you don't call yourself a fan. Horrible thing to say.

I don't know. As a fan, it's entirely valid to say you don't like someone's contribution to a game anymore. Even if that person is the director. Being a fan doesn't mean liking anything Sakurai does, no matter what

That's contradictionary.

Care to elaborate? Just saying "That's contradictory" doesn't say much on its own and I can't do much with that.

You don't have to do anything with it. It should be self-explanatory but ok... If you're a fan of something, then the main person who created that thing that you're a fan of, shouldn't be the thing that the person wants removed from said thing. It makes no sense. I never said you can't criticize, I've done that too.

Hm, I see what you mean, but that's not really true.

That should be self-explanatory, right? ;)

Okay, tongue-in-cheek aside... Smash fans are fans of Smash first and foremost, and not one of Sakurai. It's entirely likely that people will like Sakurai and everything he does if they're a fan of smash, but that's not always the case. One can still be a fan (and call himself a fan) if they like the series, but not what has been done with it recently.
Perhaps a bit of a different context will help here... I love Dutch soccer and I am a fan. But what they're doing recently is disgraceful, and the coach has been sacked, and for good reason.

Not sure what you meant with that first thing... Did I spell it wrong?

That doesn't make any sense... If you're a fan of the creation you can not not be a fan of the creator. HE MADE IT. You CAN still be a fan and not like everything the creator decided to do, like I do... But I don't talk shit about him.

That analogy is flawed, in that case you would be a fan of soccer but dislike the inventor and the people who set up the matches with everything what it brings... I don't think you'd do that... That's contradiction.

Actually, you'll find that almost all of soccer fans are against FIFA and UEFA (i.e. "the people who set up the matches with everything what it brings") right now and want the whole organization purged. And they are definitely fans of soccer.

Ok, in terms of levels, Smash being soccer and games being sports, it works. But there is only one way to play soccer, there are different ways to play Smash. I don't think it's a good analogy.

Bro, a fan can keep his sense of critical thinking. What you're asking him to become is a rabbid fanboy. From where I'm standing, the fanboys are the reason Nintendo gaming has gone south in many ways.

No I'm not. I'm just saying what I think about his statement. He can be stupid if he wants to. I too have very critical thinking, I even called Sakurai stupid once. But I worship Smash and he's the daddy.

Worship is the cancer of critical thinkers.

Yeah I don't use that word often. But of course I'm not saying that I literally worship it as if the game was a god, I'm not that stupid. XD But you're right.

Sat Dec 19 15 02:55pm
(Updated 1 time)

I may disagree with you a lot, but that last post improved my impression of your character. Keep in mind, I don't have anything against you as a person, I just feel very strongly about the topic at hand.

I was born into gaming's golden age and was a crazed Nintendo fanatic until Nintendo drastically changed directions with the Wii and too everything I used to love about Nintendo gaming and threw it away. I started buying Sony consoles and a gaming PC not because I wanted to, but because I was bored and the Wii left me with no games to play. Brawl not being fun for me sort of was the nail in the coffin that buried my fanboy ways far, far under. That fanboy influence still lives somewhere over that pile of motion games and shovelware that I do not like. I still foolishly hope that Nintendo will somehow go and make ammends to the fans they sent to Sony, Microsoft and Steam and reign on top again. Believe me, under this harsh criticism is a disilusioned fan who only wants the best for Nintendo and enjoy Nintendo gaming like he once did when he played Super Smash Bros. melee 15 years ago. I crave to relive that excitement again. I crave to see a Nintendo conference or direct and be excited, not having to worry about which controllers will be used. That criticism is borne from love, not hatred.

When I see people blindly accept Nintendo's policies even when they clearly go against a large subset of the fanbase or people who are not in the fanbase anymore but could be convinced, part of me yells "Why are you trying to keep us out?" When people ask for controller options, or ask for certain mechanics, instead of understanding the concern and saying "while I like this, it is true that this option should exist for those people", people scream "Go away!". The fandom will never grow if it becomes some exclusive club.

Nintendo IPs are special and I want people to experience them the way I have. I want them to touch their hearts as they have touched mine, and understand how significant Zelda's puzzle solved jingle is, smile when they see someone wearing a 1-up mushroom T-shirt, get together to learn and master a challenging Nintendo game. The first step is to appeal a bit more to those disilusioned fans who will be the parents who will create the future Nintendo gamers.

Sorry I didn't read all of that wall of text. I would feel bad if I didn't read anything.

Just want to say that I'm not a Nintendo fanboy... I MIGHT be a Smash fanboy because I love the FRANCHISE so much. I love Smash 4, it's the best Smash ever made and the best video game ever made and I'd pay 3 times as much for the game if I had to.

I criticize both Nintendo and Sakurai from time to time, so I'm not blindly in love with them. But I do not share the same dark experience as you have. I mainly want to see Nintendo get better for their own sake, not mine.

This coming from an "Otaku"... Whatever, man.

WTF does that have to do with anything?

There's both precedents for series getting better and badder when changing the director. However it'll be different and frankly I believe Melee isn't something that could be recaptured. Considering even other fighting series have a different feel in their sequels or new iterations.

If he makes another sequel, I hope he will be able to take his time and not stress too much over it.

At least Smash 4 is the best game in the world so... if it is the last, then at least there's that. But still, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I would respectfully disagree. I honestly have much love for the amount of work put by my colleagues in Project M.

That fan project isn't a Smash game.

Sun Dec 13 15 06:43pm
(Updated 1 time)

It plays like smash, it is a smash game. Seriously, get off it, mate. Not an official one, but certainly a smash game.

Sun Dec 13 15 10:20pm
(Updated 1 time)

I'd love to respond to you, but I'd need a point to respond to.

You realize that all you are doing is linking me a wiki about official smash games? I never claimed Project M was official, nor does a Wiki ever act as a reliable source of information.

Wikipedia, "a wiki?" Wikipedia is the wiki.

If you were speaking to any researcher worth his salt, you'd be laughed at for using it. You realize that this is user-generated and that it is the same website that blocked certain definitions to only be edited by certain few even if they are flat out wrong?

chozoboy
Sun Dec 13 15 11:19pm
(Updated 3 times)

I suppose it's good that I am not, then?

Sun Dec 13 15 11:30pm
(Updated 4 times)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_M_(video_game) http://www.ssbwiki.com/Project_M http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Project_M

Am I doing this right? Of course I am! After all, the games children play are exactly that: child's play.

(Also, children must eventually grow up, but I guess you missed that memo.)

chozoboy
Sun Dec 13 15 11:59pm
(Updated 1 time)

High alert! Someone on the internet said that a cancelled fan project isn't Smash Bros. Summon all the PM prosthelytizers! Call them the names that hurt the feels!

It's not exactly cancelled. Developement stopped, but it's still a pretty full game we got here. People can actually play it.

Here's my take: "High alert! Someone on the internet mentioned PM. Cue all the resentful scrubs and Sakurai worshippers. Regurgitate the same tired non-arguments in a pathetic attempt to discredit PM!"

Let it be clear: PM is a Super Smash Bros. game by definition (the proper definition, not whatever ill-defined definition you have floating around in your head). But beyond rudimentary labeling for categorization purposes, whether or not PM is an official or 'true' Super Smash Bros. game is unimportant, and, naturally, only little people care about the little, unimportant things.

What truly matters is if PM is a good game -- which it is. And a very good one at that!

a cancelled fan project

It wasn't cancelled, development has simply ceased. Somewhere in there, there is a very easy joke waiting to be made about Wikipedia getting cited by a guy who can't be bothered to fact-check.

chozoboy
Mon Dec 14 15 09:27pm
(Updated 2 times)

Congrats. You are awarded the title of greatest Project M apologist. You are clearly very weathered and battle-scarred from fending off the scrubs and Sakurai worshippers. I can tell this isn't your first rodeo in a comment section about this fascinating and closely-held to your heart topic/cancelled fan hack.

Mon Dec 14 15 09:37pm
(Updated 2 times)

So what exactly am I apologizing about? That PM is good? That's not an apology, it's a statement.

"Apologist" would better describe a certain subset of type of Smash 4's fanbase.

Your unprovoked apologetics make you an apologist. You are defending/attacking points that nobody has brought up outside of your head.

Mon Dec 14 15 11:35pm
(Updated 2 times)

Are you admitting that you were just trying to get a rise out Vigilante, or are you really this stunted? I'm going to go with the latter because if it were actually the former case, you wouldn't have kept up for as long as you have. Either way, the description of "juvenile" is fitting. Let's recap.

You said: PM isn't an SSB game (thereby implying it is somehow a lesser entity -- and don't even attempt to claim that that wasn't the implication because if that were the case, you would not even have brought it up). Follow up by linking the Wikipedia page for the Super Smash Bros. series -- and not just once, but twice (I thought it was strange, but now I've realized that behavior was quite typical).

Me: Link a few Wiki pages in order to demonstrate the silliness of your implied argument.

You: Generic straw man reply.

Me: An snarky account of how things really happened (and tend to happen), a refutation of your implied argument*, as well as a disproving of a factually incorrect point.

You: Generic straw man reply (again) with repetition of factually incorrect point because cheap bait is all you can muster up.

Me: Ask you to clarify a term, while providing an example of said term.

You: Misuse words and accuse me of fallacious arguing without actually providing examples of my flawed arguments.

* For the inhibited readers out there, ChozoBoy declared that PM wasn't a Smash game because it was a fan game (that is a modification of an official release, but I digress). To support his claim, he links the Wikipedia SSB article twice.

This is his 'argument', the only 'argument' he has made, and the only 'argument' I've refuted. And this is reality unless someone can prove otherwise with empirical evidence.

Your unprovoked apologetics make you an apologist.

You still haven't answered my question: what exactly am I apologizing about?

Hint: the answer involves quoting specific text samples demonstrating my supposed psychosis.

But the reality is that you won't -- and not because you're "too good for this" or whatever cop-out you'll come up with to avoid having to challenge yourself even a bit, but because you can't. Because whatever points you think I'm defending and attacking aren't in my head; they're constructions of your stunted mind.

Furthermore, you've misused a word, but that's unsurprising considering your difficulty with definitions and, well, nearly everything mental. I mean, by your stretched definition of the term, even you're an apologist because you're defending your view of PM being "not Smash Bros." Same deal with "prosthelytizers".

Anyway, cue monsieur straw man.

Spoiler

chozoboy
Tue Dec 15 15 12:55am
(Updated 3 times)

Reported your post, buddy. Shaming mentally challenged folks is not cool. Please think about what you've just done.

Tue Dec 15 15 12:15pm
(Updated 6 times)

I'm not going to mince words for presumably able people who refuse to embrace their potential as thinking beings -- which is the worst form of retardation because it is artificial retardation.

Don't assume that I think you're no better than a special needs adult reading a picture book at the library. I have only sympathy and compassion for that person because despite requiring special care they are still human and their approach to life reflects this. Even if their potential is minuscule, they are trying the best they can to learn and succeed, which is admirable in and of itself.

You, however, are a despicable little wretch because you are retarded by choice. And that is certainly something to shame and to be ashamed of. While I respect the person at the library as a fellow human being, I have nothing but disdain for your subhuman behavior. Absolutely pathetic.

Thu Dec 17 15 01:50am
(Updated 1 time)

Mate, don't abuse the report button. It makes you sound like a spoiled brat.

@Megashock1000, masterful arguments. I commend you.

PM is not a real Smash and it's dividing the community even further. It became obsolete once Smash 4 came out. You either play Melee or 4, the other games are always lacking so why even bother unless it's to play Ice Climbers, Snake or just do some nostalgia with 65? I wish PM was never created... *sigh*

I never claimed that it was official, but it is by definition a smash game. I personally play PM because Roy plays amazingly and he is my main, because it expands on the great battle system set forward by Melee, breathes new life into uninspired characters, giving them unique properties and canonical and fun moves. I play tbis game because the community is a melting pot of smashers across all smash games and they are unbelievingly nice. I play it because it's fun.

You wishing that it had never been made is like saying "I see these people happily having a good time. I don't like it! Stop having fun! Kill it! I don't want to see these people smile!".

Truly selfish.

No that's not what I'm saying Mr. Putting Words In Other People's Mouth. I don't wanna take it away from people, if it was never created nobody would miss it. There's Smash 4 and Melee, that's what Smash is.

Whenever I went to tournaments, I had people who walked up to me and hugged me for getting them back into Smash Bros. Thanked me for being a small part of that effort. Project M was very important for these people and still is. If I made these people happy, I regret nothing.

Good, but it's still not a real Smash game and it was only created cause people weren't satisfied with Brawl and for some reason didn't wanna play Melee. When Smash 4 came out the "problem" was fixed. That's the new Smash and it goes without saying that you should play that if you don't wanna play Melee.

It plays like Smash, it is a Smash game, just as Super Smash Flash is a Smash game. Neither are official, but are smash games.

And you fail to see the point of Project M. I was in the dev team and thus am more qualified than you to tell you the intent behind it. PM was born because people were just fiddling around with modding and stumbled on cool ideas. People saw a wavedashing Brawl Falco and the fans demanded a full scale mod. We delivered it and people were happy. We love and respect Melee, but we were craving a worthy game sequel with the things we wanted.

And why "should" we play Smash 4? We are not having fun with it. Are you seriously suggesting playing a game we find boring out of principle? Really?

Well of course he won't say anything about another sequel. He develops each game like its the last in the series. Until Nintendo asks him to come back, he probably won't even be aware of a sequel in the works.

Smash Wii U was about as good as the series could get so far. It will certainly be hard to top without being more iterative.

I think at this point it would be more characters, more stages, and more balancing and refinement. I think most people would be perfectly okay with that.

I don't think "reinventing the wheel" as it were is what anyone would expect or want.

Now, if Sakurai was to just be the adviser for another installment, I would be more than happy. He worked wayyy too hard on this game and I want him to be able to spread his wings again, pun intended.

Now people say Melee is the best, and I say 4 is the best so far. Why? Because Melee is a game that requires the competitive players to abuse the glitches that are in the game. If Melee had come out during this day and age they would've been patched out and fixed. Even Sakurai has said that those glitches were left because he didn't expect people to abuse them.

Now I don't think that Melee players are bad, in fact they require a whole lot of technique to play that game to it's "fullest." But Melee fans/players are usually the worst in the fandom since they are a mainly elitists.

But there are people who think Brawl was the best, or that Project M was the best. It's all up to you what you like! The only opinion that matters is your own. But when people complain about the creators vision and desires is when it gets sad. A dev is supposed to make a game that is fun and enjoyable, sure, but they are supposed to do it their own way. It's just another problem with the industry. "Too many FE/PKMN characters! Waaaahhh!" "Not enough ridiculous techniques to skippidy do bop your uber thumper!"

If you don't like it you can play something else. Not everything is made to make everyone happy.

Except I don't see which glitches you speak of. Wavedashing and L-canceling are advanced techniques, not glitches. Also, Sakurai has never stated that he never expected any abuse from the players.

Melee players from my experience are among the nicest in the community. They are generally older, more mature than the rest, which is understandable, the game had been out for a while. Honestly, people accusing Melee players or Project M players of being elitists have NEVER been to a tournament.

I see way more elitism come from the other fandoms honestly, those who tell us that we're playing wrong, that we ought to kill ourselves for playing a mod, those that accuse us of being elitist while trying to tell us how to play the game.... ironically.

The problem is that we have a right to complain and tell Nintendo what we like and don't like. That is how a responsible consumer behaves. I know this younger generation is deathly afraid of diverse opinions and would rather we live in a giant hugbox, but the truth is that it didn't have to be like this. Smash could have been fun for both high level and low level players. Sakurai "chose" to focus on the low level players exclusively, which lead to this issue in the first place.

prof_jermz
Sun Dec 13 15 04:48pm
(Updated 1 time)

I know L-Canceling isn't a glitch, it was even in Smash 64. But Wavedashing is. I really wish I could find it again, but it was quite a long time ago. But it was an interview with Sakurai and he did say, "Yeah, we knew [wavedashing] was in it. We just didn't expect people to use it like they do." I think it's labelled a glitch because it's an exploit of the engine more than anything. Which takes skill, but it seems crazy! haha

And I'm sure Melee players are nice, but from my experience with them they are usually only nicer to their own kind. Now, I have said I don't mind them, but I don't mind really anyone until they give me a reason to think otherwise. But I've never gone to a strictly Melee tournament, because I just don't like the competitive scene for that game. (Same with Project M)

But I can agree that there is elitism from really any other fandom as well, but I'm not that way. You should play whatever makes you happy and have fun! Like, I can't really stand Fallout 4, I think 3 is still the strongest Bethesda Fallout (with NV being on the bottom). But I don't tell others they shouldn't play it. But I'm just not into the mechanics of Melee, and it shouldn't be a problem if Nintendo decides to go in their own direction with something instead of staying behind and not growing.

And, you are right. We do have the right to tell any industry what we think of their product. But we shouldn't expect change or force them to change because our opinions differ. Because, in the end, they are in the business of making money. And there is more money in opening up a game to a "lower level" audience than a "higher level" one. I say it that way, because I think Smash 4 has done well on hitting both.

Spoiler

An exploit isn't a glitch though, it's just using the physics engine cleverly and within the bounds of the game's rules. The game was programmed to translate air-dodges momentum into slides when landing. It requires intent as the character would end in a T-pose if that wasn't programmed into the game.

I wonder why you don't like that scene, because I personally love these people. They are nice, respectful, will play with just about anyone regardless of their skill level, age, gender, etc... They're just people like you and me who like Smash. I won't try and force you to go to a tourney, but I assure you, there is more to it that you may believe. TO me at the very least, this community has been incredibly supportive, and that was at a time where I was insufferably young and stupid.

I'll agree on the fact that people should play the way they want and we should live and let live.

Just to make your mental image of our hands worse, I hold the controller in reverse hold. I'm kinda known in the community for doing this, lol.

I haven't been to a tournament myself but I've seen enough douchebag elitist Melee fanboys online. I'm not saying all of them are like that, of course. And there's nothing wrong with enjoying a game over others. i just hate when people think their opinions are facts.

Sun Dec 13 15 06:35pm
(Updated 2 times)

If you haven't been to a tournament, then you know nothing of this community and should not speak of it. There are TONS of trolls online on all sides, and we as a community do not condone any douchebaggery in our ranks. They do NOT represent us. If you're not going to meet us halfway and talk to us, then you do not have the right to pose judgements towards us.

Believe me, I've seen many Smash 4 fans with an elitist anti-Melee complex. I don,t think all of its fans are like them.

Keep in mind, some Melee fans react out of exasperation from being hounded regularily. Some will snap. We don't condone that, but I can understand why some will be fed up with being called an elitist every time he opens his mouth.

light wolf
Sun Dec 13 15 06:54pm
(Updated 1 time)

I can talk about the part of the community that I know and that I interact with. It's not like Melee fans live all their lives in isolation playing tournaments, or that all Melee fans go those events. I just said I've encountered lots of annoying Melee fanboys online. Of course that's not the whole community, I never said that.

I don't care about competitive gaming of any kind, but if you've had a great time with it, well, I'm really happy for you. I'm not invalidating your experience, I'm just sharing mine. I'm not attacking you. I'm not judging you.

I haven't even mentioned Smash 4, and it having shitty fans is obvious. Everything has shitty fans, and that shouldn't be a reason to not enjoy something.

zippo
Mon Dec 14 15 04:24pm
Rating: 1

Excuse me? Are you implying that Smash 4 cannot be played at a high level? Who are YOU to call tournament players of a game you supposedly don't care about "low level"? As someone who's an advocate for Smash Bros. being played how ever the player chooses, I have gone to local tournaments with friends and I have seen not only great people but great players doing great things with the huge amount of characters presented and for you to suggest otherwise when you most certainly haven't seen these players is disrespectful and insulting. For someone who apparently doesn't condone disrespect and douchebaggery, you're doing quite the opposite in this thread, getting on other people's cases for not sharing your enthusiasm for the Melee community. You don't like Smash 4, that's fine, that isn't my issue and frankly don't care about your opinion of Sakurai, but for you to berate people for playing a game you simply don't like because of it's mechanics is very rude and full on hypocrisy. The Melee community has awesome people in it as well but as a whole, they are certainly NOT the angels you make them out to be, each game has It's group of assholes and elitists, whether you like to acknowledge them or not, a fair bit of them come from your part of the coummity. All you're doing is giving people a reason to further give your sect of the community shit, and that's not cool at all.

"Low level players"

What a bunch of pretentious nonsense.

Smash 4 can be played at a high level, but there is a skill ceiling that is much quicker to attain. It's part of the reason Brawl's scene died off very early. People had already reached their maximum potential and the game became dull and dreary, while Melee allows for infinite growth.

I have seen these players, I go to tournaments where each game is represented. I'm not even being disrespectful here. Yeah, you can be good at Smash 4, and it takes some work, but it still is not a game that is anywhere as deep and Melee. No sensible person would deny this. I play with Smash 4 players in Project M, they even tell me themselves that they play Smash 4 because they find Melee difficult to win at. There's no shame in that really. Some Smash 4 players like Ally are clearly better than I am, and they even beat me at my own game. However, there is a limited growth potential for this particular game. There is also no denying that Brawl and Smash 4 tend to try to appeal to low level players. SOme get good within the confines of what they are given, but I will always be more impressed with pro Melee gameplay or Pro 64 gameplay than Pro Smash 4 or Brawl gameplay. I'm sure Melee has a skill ceiling, but we haven't even seen it yet after 15 years.

Melee is a community, and of course, not "everyone" will be nice, but I'm trying to demystify the wrong assumption that all of us, or even most of us are elitists as this is demonstrably wrong.

zippo
Mon Dec 14 15 11:12pm
Rating: 1

"People had already reached their maximum potential and the game became dull and dreary, while Melee allows for infinite growth."

Huge exaggeration. We have no idea how much farther Melee's metagame will increase, you are really stretching it if you think it's skill ceiling is going on forever. Calling players "low level" sounds disrespectful to me, you wouldn't want that said about players from your part of the community, would you? Definitely not. You have to be respectful to earn respect, especially in this community. Melee has more depth than Smash 4, a game that has only been out a year, and has only just started with it's metagame? Nonsense. Comparing a 15 year old game to a 1 year old one that has had barely any time to mature is not sensible at all. Melee took years to get as deep as it is now and it's safe to say the same will happen with Smash 4. "Sensible" people that have played the game for long stretches of time would be able to make that conclusion, not you. Making assumptions about a game's competitive longevity is foolish. There is nothing to "deny". Also, some of the most impressive competitive Smash games I've seen have come from Smash 4, whether someone is more impressed with Melee, Smash 4, or what have you is completely subjective. I've seen amazing competitors play any iversion of Smash, that means absolutely nothing. I agree with the last statement though, All Smash communities have great players, and no one is saying most of you are like that, most of what I see are saying there a select few individuals who a have a foolish agenda against others for how they play Smash and which Smash game they play, they exist in every part of the community, and they, frankly need to lighten the fuck up. We're all Smash fans, who cares which one people prefer? I love every Smash and I will never decry anyone for playing it whatever way they choose.

For Brawl, it took 6 months. For Melee, it is still growing. I would assume that it still has many years ahead of it when you see characters like Yoshi actually do well in tournaments when it was once thought that he was garbage. The game has more movement options, and thus by definition, it has more potential for learning.

Smash 4 has more characters than Brawl so I would maybe give it one more year maximum.

So blah, blah subjective, blah blah. I will answer that by stating that Melee has objectively more depth. It has more movement options, more advanced techniques.

Yes, Smash 4 is balanced for low levels of play. It doesn't mean you can't be good at it, but the cieling is lower.

I kinda disagreeing on your saying that no one is saying that we (Melee and PM players) are elitists. This comments section is crawling with these innacurate comments. I respect that people can play whichever way they want personally. However, I want smash to be fun for everyone, and this is why I always argue for the ability to play with advanced techniques.

And sure, I am capable of making such judgements. I played Brawl for a year, trying to force myself to enjoy it. I made a smash game and had to study and play every game in the series.

Smash 4 is still growing as well, your point? I'd love to see your face when the metagame lives past your estimate. It's obvious you were never going to give Smash 4 a chance the moment you realized it wasn't Melee, no matter how much deeper or content loaded it was. And your comparison is still baseless, comparing a 1 year old game to a 15 year old game, even moreso when you haven't even bothered to play the game.

If you read my comment correctly you'd realize that I said that not ALL or even most Melee/Project M players are elitists, but they are there and they are a problem, just like there are Smash 4 elitists as well. No one here has said ALL of your group is like that, learn the difference. Don't like the reality that some of those In your sect of the community are assholes? Do something about it. Inspire those people to be better. Don't just point fingers at go "Hey! You guys are just as bad if not worse!" That does nothing but make things worse.

How are you capable of making a conclusion about a game you haven't played? That makes absolutely no sense. All you can actually do is make gueses and assumptions. You have no insight to offer otherwise, sorry.

And that's fine, you have your favorite Smash game, you aren't fond of the others, I don't care about that, I only have a problem when you attack other players for thinking differently and playing a game you flat out don't like competitively.

Smash 4 is on borrowed time. DLC kept getting released, but now? It's the beginning of the end. Nintendo is also supporting is very aggressively, and it might last for a bit longer, but as soon as the next smash coems, this one will crumble into the shadows. Besides, I HAVE played Smash 4. What I found was an uninspired mess that I didn't enjoy.

And yet you tourself did mention "Melee players" being elitists. I'm not sure I like backpedaling. Wven then, I've never said there weren't a "Very" small minority of people in this community who are not super nice, but these people are also not liked within our community. And hey, I won,t stand and let my community be treated like garbage by people who act the same way to us, or worse.

I haven't attacked anyone. I'm on the defense here. It's not my problem if some people get crazy whenever I mention my opinion of their game. I've never attacked the people in particular and have always made an effort to show that I am not generalizing to an entire group. I am however tired of the Melee and PM community being a scapegoat. I will defend them because I don't stand for bullying.

Melee is a community, and of course, not "everyone" will be nice, but I'm trying to demystify the wrong assumption that all of us, or even most of us are elitists as this is demonstrably wrong.

This seems odd to me. I'm sure it is not your intention, but you are almost having the opposite effect here.
I've seen you in several comment sections about Smash and I've even had discussions with you in the past, and every time you sound like Melee is better than Brawl/Smash 4 and everyone should know it. You bring up points that have nothing to do with anything, just so you can make that point. In this comment section alone, you...
- Started a whole discussion by implying only Smash 64 and Melee are for everyone
- Brought up the so-called rift between Smash communities when it had nothing to do with anything
- Wished for new iterations to just be Melee with added modes
- Point fingers at others for assaulting competitive players, which is in truth a highly subjective chicken-and-egg story
- Were clamoring Melee to be the game for everyone while it really isn't, not really accepting any counter arguments on this
- Went of your way to disagree with someone thinking Smash 4 is the best, even though you already dominate this comment section, again spreading your love for Melee even more
- Were strawmanning, playing a victim's role

Of course, you also do good things, You...
- repeatedly said people should live and let live
- showed you've at least tried all games and formed an opinion based on that
- thanked people for open-mindedness
- went about these discussions with proper respect

That said, all in all, it does still sorta feel like you're forcing your opinion on people. I know that's not your intention, but when you push something this hard, it sure makes it look like it. Especially bringing up points that had no real business being brought up looks odd, because you're defending something people weren't even attacking.

Summed him up better than I possibly could have. There is NO need to be this defensive about Melee. Acting like a negative word can't be uttered toward the game or it's community is hilarious.

My points make sense. Smash 64 and Melee are enjoyed by both competitive and non-competitive players. Brawl has not been enjoyed by the majority of the competitive scene, same with Smash 4. Not to mention that in brawl's case, they went out of their way to remove competitive elements. And therefore, these games are for some people, but not all of them. I'm not even playing the victim, I,m just recounting the facts. I have been in both the party smasher and the competitive community. I've experienced both. And form that experience, I've seen people who have never been to tournaments hound and attack Melee competitive players just because they played better, even if they never even played a pro even once in their lifetime. I've also seen people from the Melee community take it, try and be nice, and then snap and aggressively respond. Then they got turned into the bad guys in this narrative. I want to break this false narrative and and make things fun again for these people who have been wronged.

I will not force my opinion, but I will vehemently defend it., You are free to disagree, but I am free to defend my opinion. Being opinionated =/= being forceful.

I'm not sure what to say here. You are replying in exactly the same trend as I am saying you have this whole time. You've even seemingly ignored my key points. (Hint: The key point isn't in either of the two lists.)

It's already obvious, he has an agenda against Smash 4 and he can't stand to see it being successful in the tournament scene, because it isn't his precious Melee or Project M. Plain and simple.

"Stop enjoying a game I don't like competitively!"

Truly selfish.

"Smash 4 is on borrowed time. DLC kept getting released, but now? It's the beginning of the end. Nintendo is also supporting is very aggressively, and it might last for a bit longer, but as soon as the next smash coems, this one will crumble into the shadows."

Tell me again, how do you know this? You know you don't. All you're doing is making baseless assumptions about a game you have already proven you have an agenda against.

"Besides, I HAVE played Smash 4. What I found was an uninspired mess that I didn't enjoy."

Except you said in the comments yourself that you haven't played it. You're either lying or trying to play both sides.
An "uninspired mess", yet it has triple the amount of characters and stages of Melee, sure, whatever you say.

And yet you tourself did mention "Melee players" being elitists. I'm not sure I like backpedaling.

Yes, because there are, as I said, there are SOME elitists in every sect of the community. I haven't "backpedaled" on anything. The only thing wrong here is your poor reading comprehension.

"Wven then, I've never said there weren't a "Very" small minority of people in this community who are not super nice, but these people are also not liked within our community. And hey, I won,t stand and let my community be treated like garbage by people who act the same way to us, or worse."

Except you said in this very thread that he had "no right" to call any Melee player an elitist just because he hadn't gone to any tournaments. If anyone here is backtracking, it's you.

"I haven't attacked anyone. I'm on the defense here. It's not my problem if some people get crazy whenever I mention my opinion of their game. I've never attacked the people in particular and have always made an effort to show that I am not generalizing to an entire group. I am however tired of the Melee and PM community being a scapegoat. I will defend them because I don't stand for bullying."

Your comment about Sakurai "exclusively focusing on low level players" isn't an insult to the very devoted, talented Smash 4 community? Are you serious? You called anyone who doesn't agree with yiu on soms points "in denial" and "unsensible". Have you not gotten on just about every commenter's case for saying even a small criticism of Melee and some of the very rude people in it's community?
If you're tired of your group being assaulted, maybe some of you need to improve your behavior, that includes you, because I have many hateful, vitriolic comments from your group, just like everyone else, whether you refuse to believe it or not.

" My points make sense "

No, they really don't. Comparing a 1 year old game that you especially haven't even given a slimmer of a chance to a 15 year old game makes no logical sense at all.

"Smash 4 has not been enjoyed by a majority of the competitive community."

This is how I know you're lying, and flat out have an agenda against the game. Absolute nonsense. I have gone to Smash 4 tournaments in my local areas for months, and attendance is ALWAYS high, everyone is always having a great time and i've had conversations with NUMEROUS skilled players who are eager to see the game expand. Online and In real life. That is a complete and utter, bold faced lie. You're delusional if you think what you said is a "fact".

I'm of the strong belief that any Smash game can be played however the player chooses, anyone can play Smash and have a good time, that is completely subjective.

As has already been said, the vitrol NICE Melee players get is very unfair but to say ALL of the vitrol is unfair when I've seen some of these elitists in action is bullshit. No group is more guilty than the other so the finger pointing is utterly stupid.

All you've done is this thread is force your opinion and belittle others for disagreeing. You've made your biases and your agenda known.

I have actually played it extensively three weeks ago. Hated it. I have not lied, obviously. And yes, if one has never experienced the competitive scene directly, he has no right to judge it. I only respect the oppinions of those who know what they are talking about.

Amount of content does not equal quality of content. Your point is irrelevant.

Smash 4 aims at the lower end of the skill spectrum when compared to Melee. It isn't an insult, it is just fact. Melee has more speed, advanced techniques, approach options. The top Melee play will always be more impressive than the top Smash 4 play for this reason. That does not mean you cannot be good at Smash 4, but Melee has a higher skill cieling by design.

Now, buddy I agree, people should be free to play any way they want. Hence why the option to play using advanced techs should exist.

My group gets hate even when they shut up. The cause of the vitriol is people who call us elitists without knowing anything about us. We already try to police the jerks in our community. The rest lies on you.

Again, I am not forcing my oppinion on you. Feel free to disagree. I am free to defend my points. Disagreeing with you does not equate to being forceful.

Also, it is spelled nonsensical, not unsensible.

zippo
Thu Dec 17 15 12:19am
(Updated 1 time)

"I have actually played it extensively three weeks ago. Hated it. I have not lied, obviously."

Except you said this in this very thread and I quote: "At this point, i don't even play the new iterations anymore..."

So no, either you flat out lied about having actually played it so you could spew out blind hatred or forgot what you actually said. Keep up with your own comments.

"And yes, if one has never experienced the competitive scene directly, he has no right to judge it."

If an onlooker or a fan is attacked by a competitive player for whatever reason, they have EVERY right to call that person out. I don't care what you think people don't have the "right" to say. You don't get to decide who's able to make a conclusion on anything, sorry to inform you.

"I only respect the oppinions of those who know what they are talking about."

As do I, and you certainly aren't one of them. You're a self admitted hater.

"Amount of content does not equal quality of content. Your point is irrelevant."

People are enjoying the game and It's vast amount of content, competitively and non-competitively, YOUR point is subjective and irrelevant.

"Smash 4 aims at the lower end of the skill spectrum when compared to Melee. It isn't an insult, it is just fact. Melee has more speed, advanced techniques, approach options. The top Melee play will always be more impressive than the top Smash 4 play for this reason. That does not mean you cannot be good at Smash 4, but Melee has a higher skill cieling by design."

Once again, comparing a new game that's just starting it's metagame to one with a 15 year old metagame is dumb and unfounded. Once again, personal enjoyment of either game being played at tournaments is subjective, and not a fact in the slightest. I've seen amazing players doing things at tournaments, they can be equally if not more impressive, in my opinion.

"Now, buddy I agree, people should be free to play any way they want. Hence why the option to play using advanced techs should exist.
My group gets hate even when they shut up. The cause of the vitriol is people who call us elitists without knowing anything about us. We already try to police the jerks in our community. The rest lies on you."

As has been said MULTIPLE times, generalizations are stupid, and the people making them are dumb. I'm sure most logical, sensible people know that ALL or not even most Melee players are elitists, but there ARE some and they deserved to be called out on that. Name one person in this thread who said ALL Melee players were assholes, because no one did, your victim complex came in and started giving people shit. I respect that you're trying to poilce jerks in your sect of the community but they still exist. I don't get what is so hard to grasp about this. You've taken some of these comments here as personal attacks and there's no reason for it.

"Again, I am not forcing my oppinion on you. Feel free to disagree. I am free to defend my points. Disagreeing with you does not equate to being forceful."

It's not just me and you know it, anyone who says even a slighty negative word about Melee and your part of the community draws your blatantly obvious ire. Don't like the fact that Melee isn't perfect or that some people in your community can be dicks? Don't like the fact that some people don't like Melee or it's community? Either get thicker skin or realize that this place obviously isn't for you.

"Also, it is spelled nonsensical, not unsensible."

You shouldn't be getting on anyone's spelling, I've seen dozens, if not more of your spelling errors in this very thread.

You're a petty onlooker, who flat out resents the fact that a game that you hate, that isn't Melee or Project M is seeing success in the tournament scene. You're a hater. There's no mistaking it.

Yes, I don't play the new iterations. I have tried them, but I do not "play" them as in seek them out to play them. I happened to be at an event where it was there for friendlies. I played it because friends brought me there to try it out, and we pretty much hated it. When I say that I "play" a game, I'm talking about the present.You don't have to assume that people are lying because they don't agree with you.

Smash 4 has less competitive depth than Melee, and that is undeniable, unless you're going to argue against Melee having less advanced techniques.

I will repeat myself: If you have not gone to a tournament, you may not judge the community. Realize that there are many trolls on the Internet who do not even come close to representing the scene. If you do not go and meet the people who represent our community and talk to them, you know nothing of it. I am therefore allowed to call you out on your ignorance.

The number of years in the metagame won't change the fact that one game has more advanced techs than the other, allowing for more strategic variety.

Mc Rainbowbrite, Swedish_Otaku, Chozoboy, etc... I can name many who seem to assume that were are in the majority as being elitists, which is wrong.

Keep in mind, I'm not taking these as personal attacks. I am very, very calm. However, I am calling it out like it is. I am very aware that people hate on Melee and PM players just because they think grand daddy is perfect and can do no wrong, and we don't agree. I will however demystify any false accusations of us not liking Smash 4 meaning that we are elitists. We have VALID reasons for disliking Smash 4 and VALID reasons to want to see some features returned. Instead of folding when people try to wave my arguments off as a lunatic's rant, I call out the bull. Sorry, but I don't stand there and let my friends get treated as vilains while other fandoms get off scott free treating my fandom like trash over lies.

Also, my spelling errors were typoes, quite different. And sure, I dislike Smash 4, but I don't hate on the fans.

lewdparty
Sun Dec 13 15 06:20pm
(Updated 1 time)

I wouldn't mind or even be surprised if the Splatoon team tackles the NX version of Smash. Unless of course Miyamoto already has them planning out an NX version of Splatoon.

None the less as mentioned poor guy went far and beyond for Sm4sh, even as far as to get an arm injury if memory recalls. So if he wants to take it easy then good on him, he did a good job with Smash up to this point.

Why do you think that the Splatoon team will make the next game? I wouldn't mind that, but I'd like to know your thought process.

I know it's silly comparing a shooter with a fighting game, but just based on that their first game was a multiplayer game and they did it quite well. Even they're into the whole balancing process too.

grcpan
Sun Dec 13 15 06:22pm
(Updated 1 time)

I hope Sakurai stops making smash games and someone else takes over. There is no longer a jump to be made similar to the one from 64 to melee. The series is pretty much set in stone in terms of mechanics, so there is no reason for Sakurai to keep wasting his talent on smash.

Smash has become "Video Games: The Video Game". At this point, I'd like to see a few more third-party characters make the scene before this ride ends. Especially Simon Belmont from Castlevania. With everything else there now, it just feels like a gaping hole. I miss Ice Climbers and Snake. I'd much rather see them over Wolf.

Smash will continue. I don't know why Sakurai even bothers saying such things. But I think he should become an adviser at this point, since every Smash game threatens to "kill" him. There are so many stages and characters at this point that have pre-established rules and movesets that would give another designer/programmer plenty to work with. Bring back Sub-Space Emissary. Lose that awful board game.

How many remaining characters and stages are we supposed to get at this point, anyway? Does anyone know?

I don't think there will be another main series smash game. I think the Smash team will be working on porting Smash Bros for Wii U over to NX.

Hmm, that sounds completely wrong to me. I think it'll be a long time before we get a new smash, but I doubt a port is likely.

Considering there's been a Smash game for each console since the n64, and it's guaranteed to be a hot seller, I think it's a safe bet we'll see more Smash games. This may be Sakurai's final Smash, but it won't be the last. I could also see them skipping a new Smash for the NX, but only with a Smash 4 complete edition in its place. As in, all of the content from both the Wii U and 3DS versions, as well as all of the DLC content.

Sakurai's final Smash

Ohohoho

Wait… why stop the DLC? I get they can't add stuff like this forever but I think people would buy characters they put out for another year at least.

While I respect Sakurai for all he's done with the series i think it's time for him to pass the torch over to someone else. There's too many things missing from SSB4 (mainly lack of DK content and GOOD single player content), too much bias from his part (way too much Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus content compared to other/bigger series. Also almost all the Kirby representation in the game ends at Super Star/Air Ride. Hardly any Kirby content from recent years). Too many anime sword characters.

I think Sakurai does a great job with the series, with Smash 4 being my favorite. I'd like to see him do another one, but I'd respect his decision to step back from the series, since he works so hard on them, and it seems Smash 4 was especially taxing on him. However, I think it's weird that he says we don't know if there'll be another Smash Bros. game. That's like saying if he's not involved, there can't possibly be another one. I certainly don't see Nintendo ending the series when it's one of their most popular, and is always a system seller. But it feels like when Nintendo wants to do the next one, Sakurai won't be able to stay away from the series, even if he's in more of an advisory role.

The fact that some actually liked this news is kind of insulting. Sakurai is pretty much telling us he's fed up with the series, and is ending dlc soon, with no plans of ever wanting to make another. Why are people giving this a thumbs up? He practically rushed SSB for Wii U, and left a lot of people hanging over content they've really wanted, which would have been suitable. He catered too much towards the Kid Icarus, and Fire Emblem series, instead of expanding the roster for a better balance of unique characters. I really got sick of getting nothing but sword wielders with counter attacks. Back then, I would've been excited to hear Cloud is coming to SSB, but I'm not as excited as I should be, because there's too many sword wielders in the game with similar move sets, which kind of kills the hype of wanting to buy him.

hamr
Mon Dec 14 15 09:37pm
Rating: 1

Moreover, we don’t even know if there’ll be another Smash game.
Sakurai's sense of humor is on-point.

I feel like people that complain about too many FE characters just don't like the FE franchise as a whole, or are anti-anime which they see Fire Emblem as due to the art design.

Keep in mind, Roy is a clone, Lucina was just going to be a skin. We have 3 actual characters in Marth, Ike, and Robin. Roy and Lucina are technically characters, but it doesn't seem like from anything that has ever been said about their development that they took a large amount of time to make. Their exclusion doesn't guarantee one, let alone two alternate characters making it in. They are literally fanservice, which is what smash is all about.

I honestly wouldn't mind if Smash V ended up being Smash 4 with a few new characters and modes. They've struck a nice balance between Brawl and Melee with this one, and they've added so many characters to the roster that it'd be a shame to see any of them to leave.

Interestingly, I'd want fewer characters for Smash 5. Something around 42 sounds good.
I agree that I do like the physics and mechanics of Smash 4

zippo
Thu Dec 17 15 06:35am
(Updated 3 times)

@vigilante_blade

"Yes, I don't play the new iterations. I have tried them, but I do not "play" them as in seek them out to play them."
I happened to be at an event where it was there for friendlies. I played it because friends brought me there to try it out, and we pretty much hated it. When I say that I "play" a game, I'm talking about the present.You don't have to assume that people are lying because they don't agree with you."

Yeah, because you can always change the meaning of words to win a debate, Amirite?
It has nothing to do with if I disagree with you, do you not know what the word "play" means?
You don't have to assume everyone that doesn't like Melee or critiques it "hates" it but you do so anyways. Projecting at it's finest.

"Smash 4 has less competitive depth than Melee, and that is undeniable, unless you're going to argue against Melee having less advanced techniques."

Won't even bother. The comparison is still stupid and unfounded. It's only "undeniable" to you because you're comparing a game you love with a game you hate.

"I will repeat myself: If you have not gone to a tournament, you may not judge the community. Realize that there are many trolls on the Internet who do not even come close to representing the scene. If you do not go and meet the people who represent our community and talk to them, you know nothing of it. I am therefore allowed to call you out on your ignorance."

I will repeat MYSELF then. You aren't allowed to tell people who and what they can have opinions on in the community, you're delusional if you think otherwise. You don't make any rules so I suggest you stop acting like you can make them. I've seen plenty of stories about Melee, Project M, and elitism, in and out of tournaments. Your chicken and egg scenario holds no weight, as has already been said. People are allowed to call YOU out on YOUR ignorance, and I'm glad to see they are doing so.

"The number of years in the metagame won't change the fact that one game has more advanced techs than the other, allowing for more strategic variety"

How do you know this? Oh wait, you don't. That is nothing but a prediction you have falsely perceived as fact.

"Mc Rainbowbrite, Swedish_Otaku, Chozoboy, etc... I can name many who seem to assume that were are in the majority as being elitists, which is wrong."

Nope, just checked, MC Raibowbrite and Swedish_Otaku and Nurio especially have countered ALL of your points. You've done nothing but bury your head in the sand when you don't have argument. You get on anyone's shit for fairly critiquing Melee. Just because YOU haven't seen people complaining about Melee's high speed does not mean those valid complaints don't exist. I hope you know Melee and Project M, are not flawless either, and no one here has said or indicated that Sakurai "can do no wrong" I personally think Sakurai is a great developer, he puts his all into his games, I admire his strong devotion to his works. Why anyone would have an agenda or vendetta against him is something I will never understand, additionally people who have a problem with other being fans of his really, really need to grow up or find something meaningful to do with their lives, because they are utter morons, plain and simple. He certainly isn't perfect by any means, he's said and has did dumb things, much like every other human being.

People only give your people shit when the select few assholes come out of your community. That's your baseless assumptions and strawmanning doing the work.

"I will however demystify any false accusations of us not liking Smash 4 meaning that we are elitists. We have VALID reasons for disliking Smash 4 and VALID reasons to want to see some features returned. Instead of folding when people try to wave my arguments off as a lunatic's rant, I call out the bull."

No you don't, people counter your points and you ignore them, much like Nurio has said. Now you're really lying, you've given off nothing but a pretentious elitist vibe. You're full of it.

"Sorry, but I don't stand there and let my friends get treated as vilains while other fandoms get off scott free treating my fandom like trash over lies"

Sounds like you're taking it VERY personally, actually. If it wasn't personal, then why are you going on a crusade for your "friends"? LOL.

"Also, my spelling errors were typoes, quite different."

Doesn't change the fact that you suck at proofreading, sorry. Oh wait, I'm not sorry Smile

"And sure, I dislike Smash 4, but I don't hate on the fans."

Wait, I thought you said you "hated" it? Which one is it? Hating and disliking something are two different things. Or you even sure you "played" it, because you seem so confused. Lol.
Given that you have done nothing but shit on Smash 4 fans in this thread for thinking differently, I don't buy that.

As Nurio and Swedish_Otaku have said, you ignore points that don't fit your agenda and label anyone that fairly criticizes Melee and Project M a hater. You're exactly the reason people get apprehensive about your part of the fanbase. I love how you call people fanboys In this thread when you're a fanboy yourself.

Irony, something, something, etc.

Smash 5 will definitely happen, especially after the mountain of cash this game made for Nintendo. It will probably be 7-10 years from now but it will definitely happen. After two versions, wildly successful DLC, and obscenely popular Amiibo, Nintendo executives are probably rolling around nude in piles of money on a nightly basis and there's no way in Hell they're going to make that gravy train come to a screeching halt.

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